| Author | Message | ||
     Jerry_haughton |
If we'd lived a little bit closer to each other I'd let you try this one out:  S&W M&P9 http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/wcs/stores/serv let/Product4_750001_750051_781503_-1_757954_757781 _757781_ProductDisplayErrorView_Y I'm enjoying it, and think it shoots quite well, but I'm new-ish enough at all this stuff that maybe I don't know any better... With three 17-round clips at hand, you can sure burn up boxes of ammo at the range! Good thing you 'n me 'n JB2 ain't next-door neighbors; we'd never get anything done, but we'd sure have a grand time of it.  Thanks for the comeback. FB | ||
| Jerry_haughton |
http://www.gunblast.com/SW_MP9.htm | ||
| Jerry_haughton |
Reep, this guy does some great work on bullet dynamics on YouTube. He's real high on Speer Gold-Dot 124gr for warmer months and Federal HST 147gr for colder months in his 9-mm Glock 19. You may find the info he presents regarding the 9-mm cartridge of interest. These are his two favorite carry rounds: | ||
| Reepicheep |
Looks nice, never got to handle an MP. Great reputation though. I'll watch the videos at lunch. | ||
| Road_thing |
Call me a traditionalist, but I like my guns to be made of metal. I prefer the feel of the 1911 over anything else I've ever tried. They are a little large for concealed carry, but that's not something I normally do anyway. However, on those extremely rare occasions when CC is appropriate, I prefer a S&W airweight in .38 spl. Not accurate and it doesn't have the oomph of the 9 or the .45, but it goes off every time regardless of how much sand and pocket lint is in it. And it fits in your pocket and doesn't snag on anything when you pull it out. Emphasis is on the "concealed" aspect of CC.  rt | ||
| Jerry_haughton |
I really like wheel guns, but something like Ruger's LC9 would be even more concealable, and gives you eight chances to live instead of five.  Yeah, some of it isn't metal, but the bad guy will never notice (or care). | ||
| Road_thing |
Jerry: Where do you put the water in?  rt | ||
| Jerry_haughton |
In one (or all eight) of the holes.  | ||
| Road_thing |
OK, but when it leaks out, you'll look like you wet your pants...  rt | ||
| Jerry_haughton |
Only if I let the BG get real close to me... | ||
| Road_thing |
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| Reepicheep |
Good info... Also interesting to note that .22lr (CCI Stinger) also expanded to .6in with 10" penetration... which really means that its hard to find an ineffective caliber for CCW these days. I wouldn't hesitate to carry either a .22 airlite or a .32 auto. (Unless I wanted to shoot somebody in the basement from the top floor, in which case I'd grab the CZ-52 in 7.62x25. 11.5 inches of gel penetration... uhh... *after* it passed through a vest... :0 http://www.brassfetcher.com/index_files/Page1242.h tm | ||
| Aesquire |
I wasn't a fan of "combat tupperware" until my Brother-in-law got into IPSC competition and got a Glock. I was all prepared to not like it. I was wrong. That said, Coins can jam a revolver, but a .38 snubby is just fine, and has been for over a century. The only reason you don't think it accurate is A. the gun isn't, that happens or B. the sighting radius is shorter, making it harder to be accurate and/or C. you need more practice. I suggest laser grips and dry firing as a great and cheap way to steady down the actions of aim & fire. Because the bits are smaller, the trigger pull tends to be harder on a snubby. The new Ruger LCR has a very nice trigger pull, but, alas, from your view, has a polymer frame. One real nice thing about revolvers, they don't throw evidence all over in a fight. ( one of the mostly unspoken reasons for the comeback of the snubby ) | ||
| Road_thing |
"combat tupperware"--I like that! I say "not accurate" because, in my hands, mine is not. I suspect your B answer is the biggest part of it. I'm not a match-grade pistol shooter, but I get decent accuracy out of most of my other handguns. My objection to the plastic guns is purely aesthetic. I've got practically no real world experience with them. I do like the brass-saving aspect of revolvers--I reload. rt | ||
| Jerry_haughton |
I think the Ruger LCR w/factory laser is a nearly perfect conceal gun. I say nearly perfect because, IMO, it doesn't hold enough rounds. I dig the simplicity of a revolver's suck-squeeze-bang-blow approach to reaching out and touching someone, but if I'm gonna carry, which I have recently started doing again, I want more chances than five (or six). Hence the new 9 on my hip, with 17+1 capacity. Geez, Ferris, like, how many chances do you really need? Well, if we could predict the future we wouldn't need to carry at all, we'd simply be somewhere else when the poop flies into the fan. Until I can figure out the directions on my crystal ball (dang, there's never an eight year-old around when you need one), I choose to carry extra insurance. RT, speaking of a good lookin' plastic pistol, I don't think the M&P's are particularly elegant looking. Sucker sure seems to work, though, and for this gun that's really all that matters. (Message edited by jerry_haughton on February 15, 2012) | ||
| Cowboy |
In my state (Louisiana) you must be 7 yrds or less to shoot someone (21') But as my instructor said damn it walk up a little before you call some one. | ||
| Blake |
I just look mean at people and they wither. | ||
| Prior |
Great thread. I sent some on this group a very similar email a few weeks ago. Jerry, We need to get to a range at some point- would like to see what you've got in action- both are on my list of potentials. | ||
| Jerry_haughton |
Blake, that look seems to be particularly effective just after you've dipped into your 151 reserve... Alex, I've seen signs for an indoor range just off 52 a bit my side of Winston. Don't recall the name, never been there, but might make a great place to meet and torch off some practice ammo? | ||
| Kenm123t |
Dillion of reloader fame claims he doesnt worry if he mises with his first round he has 249 more in the belt! | ||
| Jerry_haughton |
PS: Correction to an earlier post: Reep...Good thing you 'n me 'n JB2 'n Prior ain't next-door neighbors; we'd never get anything done, but we'd sure have a grand time of it. | ||
| No_rice |
I still intend to have probably a 40 or 45 for conceal, but until I get to that, I decided to go the silent but deadly route...! http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/406 2/668298.html?1329351298 | ||
| Sifo |
Interesting youtube comparison between .45 and 9mm. I would call it inconclusive at best, but make up your own mind if you care to watch. Personally, I'm quite comfortable with the performance of a 9mm with quality ammo. I would never attempt to convince someone that their .45 would be ineffective. The military, FBI, and many police departments have decided that the 9mm works well enough for them. They all have a good amount of real world data to work with. The 9mm is much cheaper to shoot. That's a big plus. If I really had to defend myself I would probably prefer my .22 that I have thousands of rounds through vs. a .45 that I am completely unfamiliar with. With a bit of luck I will never have to worry about using a gun in self defense.  | ||
| Reepicheep |
Don't forget Hillbilly Ed. We'd have a grand time, right up until the fireball reaches us.... | ||
| Jerry_haughton |
Hillbilly Ed? Cool! I'm thinkin' our little "club" will have its own YouTube channel in no time! RT, this is for you. Here's a snip from an online piece I just found online by "Tony," a fella with a lot of experience with things that go bang. I'll post a link to the page at the end of the snip, but first here's some interesting thought process regarding a "pocket" revolver like the S&W Airweight .38 vs a "pocket" 9mm like Ruger's LC9: Sometimes, however, I cannot carry a Glock on my belt, especially on very hot summer days when I may be walking around in shirt sleeves with no cover garment. In the past, I generally handled these situations by carrying a shrouded-hammer S&W Airweight .38 Special revolver in my front pants pocket. This worked very well, and I highly recommend the shrouded or concealed hammer S&W Airweight J-frame revolvers (i.e. the alloy-framed Bodyguard and Centennial series) for pocket and ankle carry. The problem wasn＊t the carry mode. The problem was the handgun itself. While excellent for their intended role 每 deep concealment 每 I was limited to five rounds in a heavy-kicking weapon not known for its accuracy, with slow, fumble-prone reloads. The new breed of mini-9mm pistols intrigued me, and for some time I considered a Kahr PM9. This a tiny, 3∪ barrel polymer-frame 9mm pistol with a six-round magazine. I was close to buying one, then I had the opportunity to shoot a PM9 belonging to an officer in a nearby agency. The pistol was remarkably light and compact and shot very well for its size, but the lack of a manual safety really killed the deal for me (he also reported reliability problems). The Kahr PM9 has a smooth, Glock-like trigger pull, but it really must be carried in a trigger-covering holster to be safe. I wanted a handgun that I could safely carry ※naked§ in a front pants pocket. Yes, there are many front-pocket holsters on the market, but they are all too bulky for my needs (I own seven pocket holsters from six holster makers; I know whereof I speak). I wanted a lightweight handgun suitable for holster-less front pocket pants carry, like my S&W Airweight, but more powerful, and easier to shoot 每 and reload 每 than that five-shot .38 snubnose revolver. I found my ideal front pants pocket carry handgun in the Ruger LC9. Introduced this year, the LC9 is a lightweight, eight-shot (7+1) double-action-only polymer-framed ultra-compact pistol chambered for 9x19mm and 9x19mm +P cartridges. It features excellent white dot sights and faultless reliability with jacketed hollowpoint ammunition. The seven round magazines are high-quality MecGar units fitted with flat or finger-rest floorplates (I typically carry my LC9 with a flat floorplate magazine for better concealment, and my spare mag has the finger-rest floorplate for more secure manipulation when reloading). While certainly no target pistol, I shoot my LC9 pistol much better than I ever shot my .38 snubnose revolvers, and its much greater muzzle energy, better recoil control, larger cartridge capacity, and ease of reloading mean the LC9 completely outclasses the .38 Special snubnose revolvers I long carried for deep concealment. To put it simply, judged against a larger belt-carry pistol like the Glock, SIG P226/P229, H&K Compact, Ruger SR9c et cet., the Ruger LC9 loses. Compared against its true competition, however 每 pocket pistols like the S&W J-fame revolvers, .380 ACP autos, et cet: the Ruger LC9 wins 每 hands down. This is a true pocket pistol that shoots better, and has much more power, than other pocket pistols. From http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2011/12/chris-dum m/gun-review-ruger-lc9-and-versacarry-holster/ | ||
| Blake |
I could never deploy my fully cocked mean face in Cali, especially not anywhere in the vicinity of your wonderful lady. Only reason I brought that 151 was to have you help get rid of it. Thanks for that! I think Tom and Al helped too, but their part was unwitting. | ||
| Aesquire |
9mm vs. .45. ----- using military full metal jacket ammo, a 9mm tends to zip a small (.36") hole all the way through. Hitting stuff on the other side of your target. While it will go through a WW2 helmet, ( which a .45 will deeply dent ) the FMJ round is not a stopper. A .45 using FMJ ammo, also tends to overpenetrate, but makes a bigger hole. A bigger hole lets the angry out faster. More energy is transfered by the .45, so it also hits harder. No contest, the .45 is better with FMJ ammo. No one who isn't under Geneva Convention rules in the military has to, or should use FMJ ammo, other than for practice. Expanding bullets, soft points, hollow points, polymer tipped, and Federal's Expanding full metal jacket, ( EFMJ ) make a bigger hole to let the angry out, tend not to shoot the people behind your target and dump more energy on target. USE those. 9mm, .45, both now work almost as well, with an edge to the .45, size just counts. A .45 also kicks more, costs more to shoot, and usually won't carry as many rounds. It's also, most importantly, a longer fatter round, so the grip tends to be bigger. Like helmets a gun that doesn't fit isn't the one you want. Try before buy. I, personally, prefer Federal's EFMJ, because it works ( expands ) even after going through sheetmetal & glass, and could care less about heavy clothing. Feeds like a FMJ too, with a jacket that is internally scored and supported by a "food safe!" silicon ball in the tip. Hollow points tend to clog on heavy clothes, or other stuff, then you are back to the small hole, that doesn't let the angry out fast enough. YMMV. ( And why there IS a .40 S&W ) A group of shooting guys wanted a round with at least the power of a .45 but more range. What they got was the 10mm. Think .41 magnum for a .45 sized semi-auto pistol. ( Don Johnson's gun in Miami Vice ) After a famous gunfight in Florida the FBI went to the 10mm, then found that an excellent round that works great on deer at a 100 yds was too much for the limp wristed Fibbies. So they requested the "FBI load" reducing the power to manageable levels. ( honestly, a 10mm does kick pretty good ) The nice folks at S&W noticed that they could shorten the 10mm to fit a 9mm frame and get the same ballistics as the FBI load in the 10mm. The .40 S&W is the result and quite popular, since it can be used in 9mm sized pistols in many cases with a barrel, spring and magazine change. It does kick more than a 9mm. but less than a .45, and seems to be the "best" compromise to date, with the sole exception of the lack of cheap, surplus practice ammo. | ||
| D_adams |
I have yet to find "cheap" ammo for the .40 at less than $.28 per round locally. Walmart has Federal FMJ in 100 round boxes, so that's what I've been getting. I guess I need to hunt around online more to find it in bulk for the cheaper price. | ||
| Reepicheep |
FWIW, if you reload for the .45 with 185 grain JHP (I like the Montana Gold stuff), its still pretty cheap. The .38 even more so (lead wad cutters, and you never loose brass). I can probably reload my .45 for about what I would pay for loaded 9mm... which only makes sense if you enjoy reloading. (Or if you have a buddy with a Dillon 1050. ) So the 9m is for sure cheaper, but the .45 acp doesn't have to be that much more expensive. I actually reload the 9mm also... just because I can. But it feels sillier to do so. I see that as a bad thing though... I like the "conservation" aspect of reloading. I reuse the brass a BUNCH of times, my range recycles the lead, so when I shoot I am really only consuming powder (which is mostly organic, so I'll say it's solar powered) and primers (which are pretty small and don't consume a lot of anything). I like the "tread lightly" aspect of it. | ||
| Kenm123t |
A 45 and 10mm fan shooting the 40 S&W inspires a new name for the round the 40 short and weak. Its pretty much a build it your self but a .38 Super a Barsto barrel and wild catted 233 cases and you get a better shooting round than the 10mm its longer recoil pulse works better in 1911 frames easier to get back on target |
