| Author |
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Reindog
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 24, 2012 - 03:17 pm: | 
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The Liberal mindset appears to be incapable of believing that what a person says the are going to do is what they are going to do.
Zero spoke loud and clear in 2008. |
Blake
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 24, 2012 - 06:30 pm: |
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Tom,
"Fundamentally change the United States of America" sounds like a detailed plan for prosperity to most "liberals". When one is ruled by emotion, actual substantive reasoning is like an unintelligible foreign language.
When the loss of 4,000 warfighters voluntarily defending freedom and the valid security interests of America and our allies while opposing tyranny and terror, when that is an unforgivable tragedy, but the ongoing murder of 40,000,000 and counting helpless innocent human beings is a mere "choice", one mostly for the sake of convenience, then you know some insidiously powerful irrational emotion is at work.
It's truly sickening.
G-d help us!
(Message edited by blake on January 24, 2012) |
Aesquire
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 24, 2012 - 06:49 pm: |
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Ok Obamites. Your turn. What has the Hopey Changey Prez done wrong?
(Message edited by aesquire on January 24, 2012) |
Blake
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 24, 2012 - 08:05 pm: |
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Prediction: As already evidenced, you'll get nothing from the tinglers significantly critical of their president.
It's called "delusion" for a reason. |
Blake
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 24, 2012 - 08:10 pm: |
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Innes,
>>> OK, so hypothetically speaking, ArmouredDinnerJacket gets black bagged & some sort of proof leaks out linking to your country provoking an all out jihad costing hundreds of lives in terrorist attacks around the world & at home.
1. He's made a bad call & brought all this on top?
2. It's a necessary price for freedom, he did the right thing?
3. He's just another terrorist by using those means he's sunk to their level?
Somewhere between #s 2 and 3; absent a declaration of war or similar, then closer to #3, though I'd not agree that one act would render us no different. Clearly there are huge differences.
(Message edited by blake on January 24, 2012) |
Sarodude
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 25, 2012 - 10:56 am: |
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Wow - it's been a 1/2 day since the state of the union speech and nothing....
Still waiting for the Obama supporters to speak up. This should probably be clarified as those who voted for Obama.
Just for the record, I voted for him. It wasn't because I thought he was the second coming or anything. He just seemed to be the lesser of the evils.
My beefs with his administration are simple & vague. Not thrilled about the bailouts. Not thrilled about cash for clunkers. Not thrilled about allowing those who have acted prudently to essentially be penalized.
I bought a house I could afford with a fixed mortgage I could afford knowing well of the impending crash. I've always driven efficient cars and, unfortunately, my "clunker" was a 1998 Corolla that gave me between 29 & 36 mpgs and was inelligible for any benefit. (Finally bought MY first new car in Sep of 2010 - a 2010 Honda Fit - best car I've ever owned - but that's another show...)
My problem is much more with the near deification of Obama. I'm not really certain I feel comfortable ascribing how much the media is responsible and how much his own campaign was responsible. I worked with someone who CLAIMED to be a moderate - only there hadn't been a single Republican she'd voted for as long as she cared to recall. EVERYTHING that came out of Obama's presidency was "brilliant" or whatever.
I do not see Obama as the horned, pointy tailed, cloven hoofed, reverse kneed beast that many (most?) here make him out to be. Most of the problems AND resolutions are complex and have been set in motion since before his administration.
For example, last night, he quietly took credit for Bin Laden. Quietly like in "in the last 2 years" or whatever he was saying. Truth is probably closer to understand that the past umpteen years of Middle East Insanity were what made it possible - and it was probably just as likely to have happened under W's reign. He was fairly quick to point out, however, that he inherited things like the problem economy. Truth is, he inherited both the problem economy and the conditions which brought on OBL's, uh, removal from power.
Obama is a product of our system. So were Bushes 1 & 2, Clinton, etc.
But I honestly hate the news media (I don't care if it's FOX or MSNBC - they're all cooking the stories for their benefit) and TRY not to follow this crap so I don't have much to say about it. My life is better looking around and seeing what's really around me than hoping for someone to tell me what's around me.
-Saro
(Message edited by sarodude on January 25, 2012) |
Cityxslicker
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 25, 2012 - 01:43 pm: |
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I cant think of once when Reagan blamed Carter for an inherited fiasco.
(and indeed there were MANY) |
Jimidan
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 25, 2012 - 03:29 pm: |
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Blake: "Prediction: As already evidenced, you'll get nothing from the tinglers significantly critical of their president.
It's called "delusion" for a reason."
Wrong. You guys have run off all the "tinglers" who could answer your question. And all that is left are the most ardent extreme fringe right wingers like you guys. Your collective messages of intolerance of any other point of view, hate of anyone who is not rich, white, christian, Republican, anti-abortion, FOX Noose junkies, Rush Limpball ditto heads, deniers, birthers, deathers, Glenn Beck fanatics and the rich Mac Daddy's water carriers, has worked like a charm.
You can sit back in your intellectually incestuous virtual lair and harumph, harumph each other as you see who can be the most disconnected and irrational about wanting big tax cuts along with deficit reduction...it just ain't gonna happen. But hey, that is OK, because it IS Blake's site. It is truly a shame in a way because this fervent extremist banter surely effects those who have something to say in the Buell postings as well.
I will now return you to your regularly scheduled programming. |
Hootowl
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 25, 2012 - 03:46 pm: |
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"hate of anyone who is not rich, white..."
There you go again.
If the race card is all you've got, go fish. No one here has the match. |
Sarodude
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 25, 2012 - 04:26 pm: |
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Jimi-
I disagree FERVENTLY with the general tone of politics on this board. It is lopsided in an unbelievable fashion. But you ain't makin' any friends and aren't changing any minds with your approach.
Please note that I voted for Obama and against GWB both times. I presented the sorts of criticisms that I asked for. I tried to stay out of it & be more 3rd person but nobody represented the BO side.
I think you may want to consider what Obama could have done better so far as well. Seriously - Barack has left NO room for improvement in his administration so far? You have NO holes to poke in the State of the Union address?
A few years back, I seriously don't think anyone here would have criticized GWB's handling of Iraq, yet we're now seeing some recognition that it may not have been the smartest set of moves by the "right wingers" here.
It's hard to not respond to what appears to be irrational, hateful, paranoid anti BO rhetoric in a similarly harsh manner. I'm there with ya. But I realize I felt as strongly against GWB as these guys to about BO - and hopefully neither I nor they are morons - and hopefully both I and they had good reasons to feel a certain way.
Let's try & understand each other's perspectives instead of give in to the pro team uberfan mentality of trying to run the country.
Just a thought.
-Saro |
M1combat
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 25, 2012 - 04:36 pm: |
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"I disagree FERVENTLY with the general tone of politics on this board. It is lopsided in an unbelievable fashion. "
That may be somewhat true... but if you take a walk over to the average HoSukYamaKaw board you'll find the same to be true but in the other direction AND you'll have huge trouble finding one with level headed and mature discourse...
Hmmm...
Anyhow...
"Prediction: As already evidenced, you'll get nothing from the tinglers significantly critical of their president."
"Wrong. You guys have run off all the "tinglers" who could answer your question. And all that is left are the most ardent extreme fringe right wingers like you guys. Your collective messages of intolerance of any other point of view, hate of anyone who is not rich, white, christian, Republican, anti-abortion, FOX Noose junkies, Rush Limpball ditto heads, deniers, birthers, deathers, Glenn Beck fanatics and the rich Mac Daddy's water carriers, has worked like a charm.
You can sit back in your intellectually incestuous virtual lair and harumph, harumph each other as you see who can be the most disconnected and irrational about wanting big tax cuts along with deficit reduction...it just ain't gonna happen. But hey, that is OK, because it IS Blake's site. It is truly a shame in a way because this fervent extremist banter surely effects those who have something to say in the Buell postings as well."
Game, set, match?
lol |
Hootowl
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 25, 2012 - 04:42 pm: |
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"what appears to be irrational, hateful, paranoid anti BO rhetoric"
I don't believe I have ever done that. If I have, I am sorry.
I believe in giving credit where credit is due, to wit:
Bravo to President Obama for authorizing a strike into Somalia to rescue an American citizen, and one other. President Obama went on to say, "The United States will not tolerate the abduction of our people, and will spare no effort to secure the safety of our citizens and to bring their captors to justice". It used to be that no one messed with Americans abroad, because the hammer ALWAYS fell. After Iran abducted our embassy staff and Carter did nothing, that attitude changed. It is good to see someone take a stand against these criminals. |
Reindog
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 25, 2012 - 04:53 pm: |
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Jimidan,
Excellent post, bud! You get the Rocco award but while he is funny, you are plain sad. I think I understand you better. You can't help spouting epithets and name-calling. But you are plain and simply wrong, my friend.
There are plenty of thoughtful Liberals on this great board. Some choose not to engage in political threads which is absolutely fine. Others provide counterpoints that everyone learns from. I don't want to name names except for pointing out Sarodude's observation above.
You sir, are afflicted with digital Tourettes Syndrome and your behavior is not pretty nor welcome. Accusing someone to be a racist is a VERY serious offense in our society. It just casually spews out of your mouth. As the Blake Monster would say, "Seek some truth."
**** Certified Code Word Free ********** |
Sarodude
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 25, 2012 - 04:55 pm: |
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quote:I don't believe I have ever done that. If I have, I am sorry.
I don't think you have either, Jeff. But my (admittedly crappy) memory tells me there's quite a bit of name calling - justified or otherwise.
I'd just prefer to have everyone look as closely in the mirror as they do out the window.
-Saro
(Message edited by sarodude on January 25, 2012) |
Drkside79
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 25, 2012 - 05:21 pm: |
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Jim, I do understand your point but your approach needs some work.
I edited a little perhaps a tad less aggressive but so be it...
~edit~
Wrong. You guys have run off all the "tinglers" who could answer your question. And all that is left are right wingers like you guys. Your collective messages of intolerance of any other point of view, general mob tactic dismissal of any non, christian, Republican, anti-abortion, FOX Noose junkies, Rush Limpball ditto heads, deniers, birthers, deathers, Glenn Beck fanatics and the rich Mac Daddy's water carriers, has worked like a charm. |
Drkside79
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 25, 2012 - 05:22 pm: |
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See take out the hate and race stuff and it gives them less room to just dismiss you. And you still get to say Rush Limpball which is fun!! |
Blake
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 25, 2012 - 05:57 pm: |
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>>> A few years back, I seriously don't think anyone here would have criticized GWB's handling of Iraq.
I certainly was! Plenty of others had been almost from the gitgo.
Jimi adds zero value and is the only one I see spouting nothing but invective and really miserable hatefullness. No discussion of actual points or issues. Bizarre.
He'd apparently rather engage in unhinged hate speech than offer the least bit of criticism of his community organizer in chief.
Emotion over reason.
Jimi deludes himself into thinking folks here are fringe far-right. I guess he found himself in the odd position of wanting to defend GWB. LOL!
What Jimi and those like him refuse to acknowledge is that what he views as far right fringe is nothing more than agreeing with folks like Thomas Jefferson, George Washington, Ben Franklin, John Adams, James Madison, Alexander Hamilton, virtually the entire crew of our nation's founders.
Watch, he'll now offer that we must want to return to slavery and revoke civil rights of women.  |
Sifo
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 25, 2012 - 06:05 pm: |
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Jimi-
I disagree FERVENTLY with the general tone of politics on this board. It is lopsided in an unbelievable fashion. But you ain't makin' any friends and aren't changing any minds with your approach.
Please note that I voted for Obama and against GWB both times. I presented the sorts of criticisms that I asked for. I tried to stay out of it & be more 3rd person but nobody represented the BO side.
I think you may want to consider what Obama could have done better so far as well. Seriously - Barack has left NO room for improvement in his administration so far? You have NO holes to poke in the State of the Union address?
A few years back, I seriously don't think anyone here would have criticized GWB's handling of Iraq, yet we're now seeing some recognition that it may not have been the smartest set of moves by the "right wingers" here.
It's hard to not respond to what appears to be irrational, hateful, paranoid anti BO rhetoric in a similarly harsh manner. I'm there with ya. But I realize I felt as strongly against GWB as these guys to about BO - and hopefully neither I nor they are morons - and hopefully both I and they had good reasons to feel a certain way.
Let's try & understand each other's perspectives instead of give in to the pro team uberfan mentality of trying to run the country.
Just a thought.
-Saro
That has got to be the best post from a lefty I've seen in a long time.  |
Blake
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 25, 2012 - 06:12 pm: |
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Example:
>>> Your collective messages of intolerance of any other point of view,
False.
>>> general mob tactic dismissal of any non, christian, Republican, anti-abortion,
False.
>>> FOX Noose junkies,
Not me.
>>> Rush Limpball ditto heads,
False on my account.
>>> deniers,
Global warming happens, no denial. Al Gore is a liar and hypocrite.
>>> birthers
False.
>>> , deathers,
no idea what that refers to, probably false as well.
>>> Glenn Beck fanatics
False.
>>> and the rich Mac Daddy's water carriers,
False. We just cannot stand to covet other people's earnings.
>>> has worked like a charm.
Only for the deluded who refuse actual substantive discussion in favor of continue tingling. Actually it was a "chill down the leg". Either way, EWWWWW!
What's happened is that Obama and his one time Dem controlled congress with super-majority in the senate, failed and behaved so appallingly that they are pretty much indefensible, even by the tinglers, so they justifiable become angry, but then take it out on those who are critical of the ghastly failure in the Dems leadership and their failed ideology. As Greece burns, the tax and spend "social justice" tinglers grow ever more apoplectic.
Their dreams for redistributive nanny state utopia have evaporated before their very eyes. |
Hootowl
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 25, 2012 - 06:25 pm: |
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I think it was a "thrill up my leg". Still...EWWWWW! |
Sarodude
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 25, 2012 - 07:06 pm: |
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quote:That has got to be the best post from a lefty I've seen in a long time.
Truth is I don't consider myself a lefty. I DO consider myself a Liberal in this sense:
quote:favoring or permitting freedom of action, especially with respect to matters of personal belief or expression
One time, in a now rare moment of clarity, my dad simply defined Liberal as "without preconceived notions" or some such. THAT is what I like.
I don't like waste. I like the death penalty. It takes a human to pull a trigger - but I do wonder about the wisdom of automatic(able) assault weapons in the hands of the general schmuckdom. I don't think ANY number of children should entitle you to a tax break. Welfare & pregnant? Seems like if you cannot provide for yourself, you cannot provide for your young. Etc, etc etc.
I also believe in freedom of speech. I believe that you don't need a definition of marriage, and as long as heterosexual couples engages in intercourse for ANY purpose other than reproduction, arguments against gay marriage are OUT. Sorry if you have to explain something you think is uncomfortable to your kids.
Don't like socialism? Do your kids attend a public school? Ever needed the fire department or the police? Crap, one of the biggest state controlled expenditures in recent memory has been the military in the mid east. As it turns out, sometimes it makes sense for the government to do things. Things we think are basic to the welfare of the country - and perhaps things that transcend paychecks.
Immigration: Both sides are fantastically insane. The left needs to admit that they're just pandering to their perceived victims - the poor poor illegal here to provide for his family across the border. The right needs to admit, among other things, that they 1) like America the way it is (sorta) and 2) don't like Mexicans turning it into Mexico. Defending illegal immigrants' rights to sh!t like driver's licenses, etc, is insane. Expecting that a neighborhood occupied entirely by people from a depressed, downtrodden country will keep from being depressed & downtrodden is unrealistic.
That ain't the point. None of this is the point.
The point is that we have a tendency to pick a team and lose objectivity. I don't want to pick a team, but mostly due to social reasons, tend to agree with Democratic candidates. I WORRY about my own objectivity because I always wind up on that side of the fence since I've had the right to vote (became a citizen in 1998) - though in these economic times, other factors may play more heavily for me. Who knows when the time comes.
I'm ENFURIATED that BOTH sides feel the obligation to deny others of reasonable freedoms without thinking they're doing such. Lefty nutjobs: We can't let ANY nuts (as in legumes) in our schools because SOMEONE might be allergic. We keep moving the line of scrimmage on the pollitically correct term for stuff. Etc... Righty nutjobs: We can't let grown adults decide that they want to marry homosexually. We use scare tactics and religious haze to stop stuff like Plan B pills. Stop complaining about too much government when you are often the ones imposing the unneccessary government.
Idealogically, the Republican party is brilliant. They've managed to somehow dupe some of the poorest people in the country into playing along with them on "moral" grounds. It doesn't matter that the policies aren't there to benefit your finances when you're uber concerned with the apparent THRONGS of flag burning, cornholing, baby eating evil lefties. And oh, btw, it turns out that a huge number of these flag burning, cornholing, baby eating evil people are the ones baiting you down this path. They are not what they ask you to be!!!
Dems... I can't even begin to dig into the insane elite-ism ("flyover states"? really??). How can we think that it's ok to pander to the laziest handout seeking welfare ninnies to bolster our constituency?
Argh....
Now that I sound utterly insane, I'll crawl back into my backpack.
-Saro |
Jimidan
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 25, 2012 - 07:31 pm: |
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Compared to you guys, I am an extremist. |
Jimidan
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 25, 2012 - 07:54 pm: |
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Saro,
Obama is not perfect as he wasted the first two and one half years of his administration trying to compromise with the Republicans, who were willing to throw the country under the bus to try to make him look bad for political reasons. You of all people should know that this is true. You all know what the Republicans number one priority is for 2012...and it has nothing to do with jobs.
Also, the Obama Justice Department failed by holding Wall Street accountable for the greed and misdeeds that brought America to its gravest financial crisis since the Great Depression. But I have to wonder if this would have even been possible considering the stranglehold that Big Moneyed Interests holds on Washington? Romney or Gingrich wouldn't have done anything either, or Bush or McCain for that matter.
But he looks like the adult in the room with either of the top three Republican clowns (not Ron Paul). But really, Gary Johnson or Buddy Roemer make the top Republicans look like they work the rings in a circus too. The bar set soooo low by Romney, Gingrich and Santorum (what ever you do, don't Google Santorum!). |
Ft_bstrd
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 25, 2012 - 08:31 pm: |
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Obama is not perfect as he wasted the first two and one half years of his administration trying to compromise with the Republicans, who were willing to throw the country under the bus to try to make him look bad for political reasons. You of all people should know that this is true. You all know what the Republicans number one priority is for 2012...and it has nothing to do with jobs.
Really. Was all this "compromising" happening while Republicans were being shut out of meetings?
Dems shut out GOP on health
Republicans Shut Out of Stimulus Conference Negotiations
Boehner: GOP leaders haven't met Obama for health talks since April
Obama ‘Abruptly’ Walks Out of Debt Talks
Republicans Shut Out in New Era of "Bipartisanship"
Obama didn't compromise with a SINGLE Republican.
He got EVERYTHING he wanted during the first two years. There was nothing that ANY Republican could do about it. He had majorities in both the House and Senate. He had a super majority in the Senate even.
Your characterization is laughable.
The ONLY thing Obama didn't get done was Cap and Trade. The reason he wasn't able to get it done was because Ted Kennedy died and a Republican was elected.
f |
Blake
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 25, 2012 - 09:23 pm: |
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Unbelievable.
According to Jimi the self-described "centrist" Obama's failing is that he wasn't far enough left?
Why is our country facing insolvency and rampant unemployment? Not enough big govt? |
Aesquire
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 25, 2012 - 10:53 pm: |
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A few years back, I seriously don't think anyone here would have criticized GWB's handling of Iraq,...
Wow. Did someone delete all my posts? I sure complained, a lot. Still do. ( but someday I'll get over being pi$$ed at LBJ. That was MY draft. )
but I do wonder about the wisdom of automatic(able) assault weapons in the hands of the general schmuckdom.
First a definition. An Assault Rifle is a selective fire rifle or carbine ( short rifle ) using a reduced charge round. ( compared to the 30-06/8mm Mauser/7.62x54R rounds used in Battle Rifles ) "Assault weapons" is a BS phrase made up to be scary.
Second. Any semiautomatic rifle ( a design more than a century old ) can be made to fire, usually briefly, full auto. to do so is a Federal Crime, and they are serious about it. NO one can own or possess a fully automatic rifle ( or pistol, or shotgun ) without a federal Permit, and many States, including NY ban them altogether. ( except for LE and military )
It's also pretty stupid when it comes to killing people. Thank the Gods for bad movies that teach bad shooting. The sideways gangsta grip has saved many police over the years. ( a little harder on babies in cribs 2 blocks away, true. )
Essentially that whole sentence is a collection of lies you have been fed.
I don't want anyone but responsible people having weapons. I also don't want the only people to have weapons to be the minions of the rich and the evil rulers.
Read the Federalist papers on the subject.
Also Read Handgun Control Inc.'s book on their plan to lie you into that attitude. ( they are now the "exploit a crippled guy for money and power. org" )
BTW, I'm Liberal too, Rush's definition is wrong, he means marxist, but he's not smart enough to know, or doesn't care.
Ideologically, ....... constituency?
I think I could easily re-write that with switching the party's names. Do it 3 or 4 ways, each funnier, and truer than the last. Nicely phrased.
Saro, Other than that, with some room for rational argument, ( I'm mixed on the death penalty, for example ) I mostly agree with you. Be interesting to discuss a few points you've made.
A lot of politics breaks down to "my lying sack of *&^% is better than your lying sack of *&^%". And I'm sure NOT happy with the R's. I'm just marginally less happy with the D's. Some R's are elitist snobs, some D's are good honest guys. ( not enough, and we're talking Party & pols not normal humans )
What it breaks down to is that Obama is using the tactics, and language of an ideology that has murdered hundreds of millions of people. He CLAIMS it's his faith. He acts like he means it. I don't really know if he's a serious ideologue, or a complete mercenary using that ideology as cover. Either way.
He who uses envy and hatred to gain power, is evil. |
Sarodude
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 25, 2012 - 11:31 pm: |
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Patrick-
Truly glad you found a bit of humor there!  Really wanted some levity. Glad you found it.
My points are ludicrously simplified. But you kinda get the point.
-Saro |
Cityxslicker
| | Posted on Thursday, January 26, 2012 - 03:58 am: |
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"hate of anyone who is not rich, white..."
If you think the reason I cant stand Obama is because of his Race; let me introduce you to Marx, Lenin, Stalin, Tito, Castro, Che, Mao, Kim il Jung, Chavez and even his kissing cousins of Hitler, Musellini,
but if you want to believe it is all about Race - it makes you the racist; not I. |
Court
| | Posted on Thursday, January 26, 2012 - 08:01 am: |
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Jimi:
You need to get our more, read more and adjust your receiver to the frequency of the real world.
President Barack Obama spent the first 2-1/2 years of his administration, as debt and unemployment soared are record rates, in a position of not only refusing to compromise in the least little but bur refusing to even allow discussions of differing view points.
That's not opinion, that's fact.
You don;t get to his record low approval numbers by simply trying and failing . . . you have to simply flat out fall on your ass fail.
I suspect we're in for 4 more years of him.
He's a national embarrassment and, to date, the Republicans haven't offered up much.
I can't speak for others but I'm one of those who has, at least financially quarterbacked my affairs by dropping back . . reading the defense, finding the open receiver and throwing long.
My accounts, as of the close of 2011, returned 30.2% and I paid 55% of my income in taxes.
Someone should be ashamed. But until they come around . . I am one of the number who have resigned myself to stop whining, study the way the game is played and play defensively.
But . . for the folks of America . . the events of the current administration are going to have long term consequences When you see folks like Stanley Druckenmiller take their personal billions and simply vote "no confidence" by pulling out completely, it's a shame. All the capital is gone . He is no longer putting up $50M here and $200M there to help start companies . . the ones that employ people.
Others have taken a different tack. A friend of mine took a job managing money for another well known player. His base salary, when he started in September is $65,000,000 per year plus a piece of the action.
But . . is he doesn't make money . he gets nothing.
I like big bets and am preparing to make one now.
I don't much care for Obama . . . he's warped the common and natural rules of commerce but as long as I know and understand the rules I'm going to play and have some fun with them.
Compromised?
You are delusional. |
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