Are there any examples of an Anarchist state actually existing? Thriving? It seems to me that at best it would be a power vacuum to be quickly filled by the first despot to grab control. I'd like to hear how this is supposed to work.
The more I learn the more I realize how utterly ignorant I am.
anarchy (noun): 1 a : absence of government b : a state of lawlessness or political disorder due to the absence of governmental authority c : a utopian society of individuals who enjoy complete freedom without government 2 a : absence or denial of any authority or established order b : absence of order : disorder <not>
>>> I'm real easy, I don't mess with you and you don't mess with me.
You just made a rule. Oops.
And not so simple a rule as it may seem. One person's idea of what constitutes "messing" may be quite different from yours or mine.
I claim propert; you claim portions of the same property. Under anarchy, then what?
What Tom (Reindog) said. Are you a Nihilist?
Even Neitzsche couldn't live up to his own philosophy, once going so far as to put himself in harm's way to defend a mere horse. Later he killed himself.
But I at least can respect the philosophy of an atheist who recognizes what Neitzsche, Sartre, and friends realized, that absent a moral law-giver (G-d) all things are indeed permissible. That seems to be the only intellectually tenable atheistic philosophy far as I've seen.
"I claim propert; you claim portions of the same property. Under anarchy, then what?"
It has been said, and I don't remember who said it, that civilization began when one person fenced off a plot of land, called it their own, and convinced everyone else that this was so.
I am in no way claiming to be perfect nor am I claiming that all cops are perfect! I am also not saying that there are not bad cops out there, because they are out there.
What I am saying is generalizing your statements to ALL COPS is just ignorant! I also would like to point out there are no ex-marines!
Do you appreciate it when you get grouped with the sport bike rider that wears shorts and flip flops?
I would also like to point out that I am not the exception to good cops either, I work with many people who I trust with my life on a daily basis. I also work with boarder jurisdictions that have never given me any other perception other than professionalism.
My last point for your anti-military statements, is that with out our military service people giving there lives daily since this country has existed than you would not have the freedom to express your opinions.
I think it is time for some one to insert that picture of people fighting on the internet thing! I am truly amused by your opinions, because they do not affect me. I just ask do you like to be grouped in large negative generalizations? If the answer is no then you should reconsider who you lump in to your generalizations.
I only know a little bit about what our service men and women and our public safety employees pay every day, what they risk every minute they are on duty.
IF you value your own life, if you have ever valued your families lives or your community and your freedom and your security... well, all I can say is you are pretty ignorant if you do not see who is there at all hours of the day and night no matter what to protect that.
IF you were under investigation from the narc squad and actually searched, I would say ninety nine times out of a hundred there was probable cause, ie. some sort of evidence that led law enforcemnt to act accordingly.
The cop bashing has to stop.
If I had gone through what some vets, active duty, reservists and LEOs I know from this board have been through, I would probably no longer be functioning as a human being.
YOU have no idea what true evil is until you have been violated by a perp with absolutely no social conscience. AND if you have never been violated in that way, well, congratulations, you are truly blessed. YOU have won the lottery.
I have heard a lot of "tough guy" "I got my guns" talk on here, "I never plan on needing a LEO for anything" talk.
Well hooray for you... you are still one of the very few people in this world who has not been touched by violent crime, either by proxy or in person.
For the rest of us mere mortals, there are people out there that do an entirely thankless job dealing with the most vile elements of our society every day. I may not like all of them, but I respect what they do... and I think you should too.
All right people, I apologize if I offended anyone. Especially Hardcorps. Thank you for your service. Hope you really are the stand up guy others say you are. I respect what vets have done. Navy wouldn't accept me because I could be mentally unstable. Not what I was told of course but recruiter made it obvious. A kid in Tajikistan, early nineties, civil war, experienced some of it first hand before getting to the mountains to wait it out.
And Whatever, don't know about you, but I personally always got a kick out of the tough guys with guns ready for anything.
Anyway, ya'll take care of yourselves, I'm done here.
Blake: ""I suffered an incident of bad behavior and injustice, so cops are like vampires"
Dishonest, lame, bigoted. Nothing more"
There is nothing dishonest about my life experiences with cops, and the only reason that you think that it is "lame" is because they have NOT happened to YOU!
What IS dishonest is the way that you tried to twist my words in my analogy "They look at us civilians like vampires look at humans, we are nothing but prey to them." The key to it is that I wasn't saying that cops want to bite civi's necks and drink their blood...vampires are not real! It is about the whole predator/prey thing with cops, with us being the prey.
Bigoted...funny but that is the way that I see you too. There is a red America and a blue America, and the chasm is growing by the day. You are on one fringe end and I am in the middle, 'cept since you don't have a TV and spend your life on here with guys who think just like you, how would you know? Nothing more...
You are not in the middle. You're LEO/military grudge gave you up. Saying that you're "in the middle" is like saying you're a moderate. But hate and moderation don't work together. Nice try though!
If you surround yourself with lefties or righties, you'll think you're in the middle. That's why our press doesn't understand why everyone thinks they tilt left. They look around at all the other lefties in the news room and see themselves right in the middle.
Badweb has plenty of intelligent and thoughtful liberal voices. They generally don't start calling people racists as a debating tactic though. I would expect that from a career race baiter like Jackson or Sharpton, but not from anyone here. I think that's why we all found it so patently offensive when you did it, and when you continue to do it.
They look at us civilians like vampires look at humans, we are nothing but prey to them.
Predators look to get something from their prey... Food, cash, property, etc. What exactly do cops get? What did they get in your drug bust experience? I have to agree that the analogy fails.
boltrider: "But hate and moderation don't work together. Nice try though!"
I don't hate cops...never said I did. I said that I don't trust them...any of them. And they don't trust any of us civis either, so I would say we are even. I worked with cops of all stripes for 10 years and got along with them just fine, because I understood where they were coming from and didn't get in their way. I kept it very professional except with a few FBI agents who were very different than those who had been on patrol.
I say that I am a moderate because I read the pols. I am a fiscal conservative with a credit rating of 825, pay my taxes without a grudge (I see them as dues to live in this special country) and don't even have a credit card. I am old fashioned in that I believe our President should tell the truth, and not lie to get us into protracted wars. I agree with Ron Paul on over 50% of the things he professes. I say live and let live as long as they aren't hurting anyone. I believe in the golden rule, I don't start none but I am not afraid to finish it if someone else does. I don't like bullies, and cops are the epitome of a bully.
I calls 'em likes I sees "em. I call out racism wherever it rears its ugli head...with a passion. FOX News's Juan Williams is no Jesse Jackson or Sharpton, and HE says this kind of language is racially offensive. Neither is Clarence Page or Eugene Robinson "race baiters"...the only race baiting going on here is by folks stoking up racial anxiety by using those terms. They are all designed to try to paint the President as not one of "us", dredging up resentment in white folks that Obama is taking their money and giving it to undeserving brown people. I didn't make this stuff up...it is all in the news these days, the mainstream news that is. Mainstream like me.
My calling those folks out for using these terms was not part of a "debate" as that was a separate issue.
Sifo: "Predators look to get something from their prey... Food, cash, property, etc. What exactly do cops get? What did they get in your drug bust experience? I have to agree that the analogy fails."
Not so fast. What do cops get out of the predator/prey relationship? That is easy. They get "OFF" on it. Cops are on an ego trip and enjoy pushing people around more than Mitt Romeny likes "firing people". Cops get really excited when they are pushing their weight around...and the narcs that invaded my home that day when I was just a college student were enjoying their work way too much...I grew up and smelled the coffee that day.
I have seen a clandestine video of our local cops acting like a football team chest butting and high-fiving each other before confronting protesters. Ever watch one of them Rodney King type videos...it is like a shark feeding frenzy. I know what will come of that comment...Jimidan says cops are like sharks. LOL.
Like Cartman sez, "You will respect my authoritah!"
>>> What IS dishonest is the way that you tried to twist my words in my analogy "They look at us civilians like vampires look at humans, we are nothing but prey to them." The key to it is that I wasn't saying that cops want to bite civi's necks and drink their blood...vampires are not real! It is about the whole predator/prey thing with cops, with us being the prey.
Never thought you meant it literally. Vampires are evil self-serving murderous monsters. You equate cops to evil self-serving murderous monsters
Beyond belief that you see no bigotry in that.
The dishonest part is your conclusion "cops are evil self-serving monsters", not your premise' that you suffered injustice. You're view is no different than those of the bigots who think most muslims are terrorists or that blacks are criminals.
Despicable.
Final warning. Apologize sincerely or depart. Your choice. BadWeB is a no-bigot zone.
You're a centrist? Then let's here your objections to the fed govt as run by the Dems for the past three years!
A cop hater does not a bigot make. Bigots hate people because of what they are not what they decided to be. As far as I know a cop has never been born. They make a decision to become a cop and the hater hates people who have made that decision.
"I'm real easy, I don't mess with you and you don't mess with me." Sorry Blake but I don't see that as a rule and can't see how anyone could.
Sifo, what you describe is Anarchy until, like you said one dickhead tries to prove that he's a dickhead. That's when it all goes away. Anarchy is the people recognizing that "Hey that sifo guy is a real good shoemaker lets see if he wants to make the shoes". If he does than he will be the shoemaker until he no longer wants to make shoes or the people don't like his shoes any more. If that Groggy Froggy guy beats his wife every day it won't take long for the people to put a stop to it. No rules as given the chance humans will take care of themselves as a whole.
I have yet to see anyones idea of civilization work to the point that the great majority of the people living it think it's the way things should be.
I THINK as in MY OPINION IS...That the minute one person thinks he knows what is best for anyone else there is trouble on the horizon.
I type with two fingers and have a hard time trying to keep up with my brain so this is quite dificult for me but I think I have made my ideas clear.
Do we need police ? I don't think so, I would much rather have more EMS workers and Firemen instead. Perhaps a few detectives to figure out who has committed the serious crimes and to find them and hold them acountable. Do we need the beet cops ? No. Does their being there deter crime ? No. Well maybe if they are in the immediate vicinity it might. Everyone knows that we as (supposedly) a free people are being pestered and nit-picked to death by todays cops. Should I really have to pay a couple of hundred dollars in fines and a few years worth of insurance rate hikes because I was driving fast ? That's insane ! How about for not wearing a seatbelt ? That's even more dispicable ! The cop is the one who gets to decide who will and who won't be brought to justice for these crimes. Crimes. Huh. Can you imagine that, not strapping myself in to my car has the potential of costing me several hundred dollars. It's madness.
I have several family members who are cops and tell them the same thing, "every one of you should be ashamed of yourselves. You bring all of this misery and expence to these 'criminals' for doing what you do every f***ing day. These folks have sworn an oath that they constantly break. They actually think that they are above the law. That's not what the oath said. How many cops would write the ticket if the person they pulled over turned out to be their mother, in a brand new car she just bought and that she was unfamiliar with and ended up speeding ? No one will ever be able to prove an answer to that question but I'm going to say none and feel it's a pretty fair assumption.
The big picture is that since 1776 there have been more and more laws put on the books to control the population and pick their pockets simultaneously. This country was founded by people that told the over bearing ruler to shove it. Real freedom loving folks. They would all want to puke if they could see what the laws and the enforcers of them have done to all of their hard work.
As for chest pounding and coming off hard. That's not me at all. I have had the cops display no initiative at all when my house was robbed. None. Trust me I know this for fact. I didn't even call them my insignificant other did. I didn't even want them in my house as all they did was look for anything out of the ordinary in my affairs. I truely have never and will never need one. They have only brought me misery and expense. At one time everyone was able to take care of themselves and the ones near and dear to them. This is no longer as the masses have come to think the police will take care of me. Ask a cop, an honest one will tell you that they are much much more often than not reactionary when it comes to crime and that they can't keep you safe. But they sure as Hell can get in to your pocketbook...
My final opinion for this evening... Anyone who wants to be a cop should never be allowed to be one.
>>> The big picture is that since 1776 there have been more and more laws put on the books to control the population and pick their pockets simultaneously. This country was founded by people that told the over bearing ruler to shove it. Real freedom loving folks. They would all want to puke if they could see what the laws and the enforcers of them have done to all of their hard work.
Blake, and others interested, we lived right by Dushanbe, capitol of Tajikistan. We heard about a conflict but never thought it would actually affect us directly. But it did. One day we saw a tank, trucks, soldiers (don't know which side or who they were) coming down our residential street. Parents managed to keep us from seeing the actual fighting although we sure did hear it. Being the christian people they are, my parents did treat several soldiers in our house. They were just people like us. One night we packed up and headed for the country. Had to take the Moskvich 2125 off road to make it. We lived with another family from our church for a few years in the mountains. Survived off our own huge garden and animals. Best years of my life. Come 97, we got to Moscow and did our papers for America and came to Portland. Then moved near Willow Springs, MO for a few years but work was hard to come by. So moved back to Portland where we worked but the weather made my Fathers' joints ache. By this time my two older brothers and sister had married and moved out. We decided to move to Big Island and see if we could live here. My dad found a job with an electrical company and hooked me up as well. So now we work on roofs doing huge solar system jobs (anywhere from 500 to 1200 panels.) But come March, goin' back to MO and our church. So that's my story. Sorry if it's a bit of a run on but English isn't my first language. I'll leave out all the gory details and whatnot from our time near, around the city.
Reindog, I'm currently Buellless. But hopefully in a week or two will be scoring an 07 XB9sx for dirt cheap that needs a little work. Hopefully.
Skinstains, If you ask any one in law enforcement, the beat cops are the foundation of a police department! Are we mostly a reactionary force absolutly, but that is only because of budget cuts that no longer alow us to be as proactive as we want.
You can ask any cop that is worth anything, and he will tell you that he does not enjoy writting tickets! In fact the main reason that any of us write tickets is because City Hall and our command demand it! There are a few instances that tickets are necessary, like a crash for one, people consistently speeding in a school zone, during school hours.
I can honestly say that I became a police officer to help people. My department only has two detectives, and they only investigate homicides and CSC's because that is all they have time for. A majority of our investigations are handled by road officers. I approach every call for service as if I was helping someone from my family. Is that hard absolutly!
Once again, I don't think you, or any one else for that matter, appreciates being grouped with some large negative connotation.
Negative attitudes givin to any one are usually met with a negative attitude given back.
Again I am blessed that we live in a Country that allows every one to their opinion. I am sorry that your opinion has been jaded by such bad police experience. I believe there are many more positive police experiences than negative, it is just you only hear of the negative ones! It is kinda of like when we have a problem with our bikes and we discuss it hear on the forum. Someone comes along and thinks we own the most problamatic bikes out there.
You seem to expect perfection and if not met, want to throw the baby out with the bathwater so to speak.
Thinking about it, it seems highly likely that the overall demeanor of a precinct or applicable law enforcement office/jurisdiction might tend to influence the average attitude of officers serving in it. I suppose there may be some that are a lot less honorable than others. The force here in Kilgore is excellent. They wouldn't tolerate a misbehaving associate.
Thanks for the answer Skinstains. I have disagreements with some of that, but it's interesting to hear. The problem with any civilization with a population over 1 is that eventually there is a dickhead. Without rules the dickhead will wind up ruling. That reality has played out repeatedly in time. It sounds like the Libertarian version of utopia though. I just don't believe in utopia.
