| Author | Message | ||
     Union_man |
I asked a question about your religion here. http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/406 2/664729.html?1326580890 I didn't figure I would get a good answer in a post titled "Is this Christianity". Thank you in advance for your polite answers. | ||
| Harleyelf |
It is my understanding that if you believe you need a Savior to assure your spiritual well being after death, you are no longer a practicing Jew. There is no afterlife in Judaism. | ||
| Union_man |
Could everyone answer on the link above please. Thanks! (Message edited by union_man on January 14, 2012) | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
There is no afterlife in Judaism. This isn't quite correct. Jews believe in Olam Ha Ba which means "the world to come". In Revelations, heaven is described as perfect unity with God in the new Jerusalem here on earth: "I saw the Holy City, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride beautifully dressed for her husband." Revelations 21:2 The Jewish concept of "the world to come" is completely consistent with "the new Jerusalem". | ||
| Nik |
http://www.jewfaq.org/mashiach.htm The big difference with Judaism, is that there is no dogma, no formal mandated beliefs. Doubt is allowed and even encouraged. For example (since it was brought up), there is no firm concept of the afterlife, only that there is a world to come, and personal opinions about what that entails abound. *I am not Jewish, I just have a strong appreciation for it. (Message edited by nik on January 15, 2012) | ||
| Blake |
No dogma in Judaism? You don't read the bible do you? | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
Yeah, I hear the Pharisees and Sadducees were easy going folks. | ||
| Nik |
No dogma in Judaism? You don't read the bible do you? No I read the Tanakh. They don't sacrifice animals in temple now either do they? After the temple fell Judaism evolved into Rabbinical Judaism. This was all after the events in the New Testament (~6th century AD). The Bible does not accurately reflect modern Judaism. The no dogma bit came from a discussion I had with a Rabbi BTW. Of course that's open to debate and discussion, which is kind of the whole point. | ||
| Nik |
Yeah, I hear the Pharisees and Sadducees were easy going folks. Yeah I really hate when I run into those guys... Oh wait I've never been in the 1st century. They had debates though didn't they? They disagreed and discussed? Doesn't sound very dogmatic. The Pharisees anyway. | ||
| Nik |
Also I don't really feel comfortable representing Judaism as an outsider. Please reference the site I linked to. http://www.jewfaq.org/beliefs.htm You'll find it backs me up on the dogma bit too btw. | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
Please explain what dogma you believe is contained in Christianity that isn't present in Judaism? | ||
| Trojan |
Please explain what dogma you believe is contained in Christianity that isn't present in Judaism? Just the little bit about Jesus being the messiah......not much I know, but it makes a difference  | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
Dogma: a doctrine or body of doctrines concerning faith or morals formally stated and authoritatively proclaimed by a church -Websters | ||
| Blake |
dogma (noun): A doctrine or a corpus of doctrines relating to matters such as morality and faith, set forth in an authoritative manner by a church. - The American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language | ||
| Blake |
Nik, In my view, the web page page that you quote is misleading when it says that "Judaism has no dogma." It might be accurate to say that Judaism in general--there are multiple sects--has no official dogma, since the different sects/denominations can hold widely divergent views. But certainly the thirteen listed "principles of faith" as follows constitute dogma; thus the assertion of no dogma is silly:
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| Blake |
Matt wins! | ||
| Blake |
With clarification that some Jews also believe that Jesus was the messiah. | ||
| Slaughter |
LA's morning drive on KFI AM 640 has a Bill Handel - lawyer and hyper-politically-incorrect talk show host. He is quite the character when it comes to stereotyping. Here's his "Hassidic Tebow" done before showtime:  | ||
| 86129squids |
Hasidic Tebow, LOL! | ||
| Blake |
Hebrow? | ||
| 86129squids |
I feel a pic coming up somehow...  | ||
| Firstbuell |
finally!! a Hebraeic thread to which I can relate. confused? wait til you watch this! http://www.wazzup2day.com/articles/1438/jimmy-fall on-david-bowie-tim-teb | ||
| Spatten1 |
I am a Jew. Most modern jews put very little thought into the afterlife, but traditional Judaism, including modern Orthodox and especially Chasids do. On Rosh Hashanna we do talk about being by G-d's side, etc. The big difference is that Hell is not generally used as a reason to do the right thing to avoid punishment. Following the mitzvah (the commandments, rules in the bible) is to make this world a better place. When we atone for sins we have to apologize to G-d, apologize to the person we wronged, then find a way to make it right. There is no clear definition that I know of showing that this keeps you from going to Hell vs. Heaven, but there are allusions to both "places." There is a big spectrum of views of the afterlife in Judaism, and it's an interpreted concept rather than one laid out like the rules in Levitcus. Personally, I don't know too much about it because it's not something that's important to me, I take the route of making this place the best possible reality for everyone on earth by doing what is right. That does not negate the fact that there are many passages and Tanach discussions mention being with G-d, I just have never put much study into it, and it's generally not a primary focus for Jews. Most things in Judiasm are argued and intellectualized to death. Each passage is dissected many ways. Dissent and logical discussion are promoted. Doubt in G-d himself is understood to be a natural thing most people should go through. Just accepting what you are told is very much discouraged, as it does not create the same level of conviction as someone that questions and finds answers in their faith. My two cents, may be worth less. | ||
| Reepicheep |
Thanks for your perspective Spatten1, it was thoughtful and interesting. | ||
| Fast1075 |
Interesting.  I have never discussed religion with a Jewish person. I haven't a clue. Continue | ||
| Spatten1 |
I'm always open to sharing/discussion. I'm also grateful for the recent uptick in interest in Judaism from American Christians. I wish I were an expert, but I'm not. I try to learn more when I can, but was not raised religious and have big gaps in my knowledge. I like that dissent and analysis are encouraged. I do really like the religion and hope my kids stick with it. We went to Israel in December to promote that. After 5,000 years, I hate that so many people just walk away because it's a hassle or they just don't care. | ||
| Blake |
Scott, I'm envious of your trip. Will have to talk to you prior to planning ours. Not sure when it will be. One thing that really helps young folks maintain faith these days is to give them a sound foundation in apologetics for G-d's existence. Most of the content on www.ReasonableFaith.org is non-specific to Christianity and is applicable to the Abrahamic (monotheistic) religions' belief in G-d in general. The logical/philosophical arguments for the existence of G-d presented there are exceptional, and are valuable for any Abrahamic monotheist. Being able to rationally and logically defend one's faith is a huge help to those who might otherwise be swayed from their faith. Interestingly one of the arguments for G-d's existence was originally formulated by a muslim, the Kalam cosmological argument. Side note: I noticed the use of "G-d" to avoid spelling out the complete word on one of the Judaism web sites linked to earlier in this thread. I've been spelling it out and had even taken to using lower case "g", since in my view "g-d" is not a name but rather a description or title, like "president" or "husband". G-d's actual name seems to be that represented by Y-WH and meaning "I am that I am" or "I am who I am", the most profound of all possible names it seems to me. There's an interesting site that talks about that particular name and expands on it in an interesting discussion... http://www.yhwh.com/gingn/gingn.htm Upon reflection, I think I'll adopt the Jewish convention and use "G-d" from here on out. | ||
| Spatten1 |
Blake, Thanks for the links. I'll check them out. Everyone I know, Jewish or Christian, has loved their trips to Israel. It's a special place and has a unique vibe to it. I can't explain it, but there is something powerful you feel in Jerusalem, and others seem to universally concur. Happy to talk anytime. There are a bunch of names for G-d in Judaism, for different contexts. Hashem is used for normal conversations. The Y-WH was only pronounced as spelled once a year in the inner sanctum of the Temple, called the Holy of Holies, on Yom Kippur, the day of atonement. We say Adonai instead of the correct pronunciation that is not used. We use Eloheem and a few other names in normal prayers too. There are protocols for when to use different names, but I'm not knowledgeable enough to explain. From what I've been taught, remember my limited knowledge, I think the "G-d" may be out of respect for G-d's perfection and our inability to define G-d. Jews traditionally believe that we only understand/grasp glimpses of G-d as we are on a lower plane of existence and understanding. Moses, for example, would have seen a much truer picture of G-d than most people, as he attained a higher level or existence and saw more reality. Obeying the Mitzvah brings you closer to G-d and you see more, but humans are still very flawed and limited in our perception of true reality. When G-d does reveal himself, it's intentionally in a form that the particular human can comprehend. That person is not seeing the true and entire nature of G-d’s existence. Even the way we see the world is pretty limited. Anyway, that’s my understanding of some of the generalities of my faith. |
