| Author | Message | ||
     Blake |
An apparent popular protest, but fostered and instigated by who? Hitler, Lenin, and Mao, ALL puppeteers of so-called "popular" uprisings. Is allowing the expansion of brutally oppressive international totalitarian fascist rule really something that freedom-loving people should tolerate? Really? Islamism is far more than mere religion. Islamism is totalitarian sharia rule. Islamism is the new naziism, but on a much greater scale and soon with nukes. Mass-murdering islamist terrorist megalomaniacs with nukes... Mass-murdering islamist terrorist megalomaniacs with nukes, and oil... Mass-murdering islamist terrorist megalomaniacs with nukes, and oil, and control of vital shipping lanes... Nothing to be concerned about? Not to be opposed? Okay to leave such a possibility to chance, hands-off? All that evil needs to triumph is for good men to do nothing. Review history? Repudiate naivety; the "hope" of Neville Chamberlain is not just suicidal foolishness, it is irresponsible and cowardly. The popular notion of hand-wringing punitive liberalism is that if not for the influence of America, Britain, and the West in general, the islamists would be our friends, that people in the Mid-East and North Africa would cease to suffer. The Taliban had their chance, we supported them, we enabled them. In return we got 9/11, Madrid, London, Bali, countless other acts of mass-murder intentionally targeting civilians. Regardless, if nazis were poised to gain control of Germany, would we be saying "hands-off, no meddling, the German people must be allowed to elect whomever they like"? Support sharia law and the brutal oppression of women! Let the Muslim Brotherhood govern. Mysogenistic totalitarian fascist cults must be allowed a seat at the table? Really? America and Britain are the bad guys? Really? Why didn't we just conquer, kill, and take what we wanted instead of allowing the enriching of the indigenous tribes and the creation/existence of an illegal energy cartel, OPEC? Can you imagine the unmitigated outrage if the majority of grain export production was controlled by such a shady illegal cartel? America and Canada would be demonized, and rightly so. That's a real head scratcher, ain't it? One would seem to really have to hate the West in order to adopt such a contradictory moral view. I've yet to hear a well-reasoned case against Mubarek.  The MB hates his peaceful policy with/towards Israel, a staunch ally of America. hmmm... I fear a serious confrontation is coming. Let's hope a Neville Chamberlain does not re-emerge. We cannot afford to permit the islamists to gain another foothold, or to gain more time towards achieving nuclear weapons capability. It wasn't just about the Sudetenland then, it's not just about Egypt and Tunisia now. | ||
| Blake |
Egypt's banned Muslim Brotherhood movement has unveiled its plans to scrap a peace treaty with Israel if it comes to power, a deputy leader said in an interview with NHK TV. | ||
| Fast1075 |
I am glad that this thread has become interesting and informative...I have gained insight...thank you all.... Carry on!!! | ||
| Blake |
"Repressive governments"? Repressing nazis and islamist fascists is not necessarily a bad thing. Hate speech is illegal, yes? Racism and bigotry are evil, yes? | ||
| Aesquire |
Just completely unrelated thoughts. Blake, ever see this Movie? http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0046889/ I enjoy WW2 films. Also WW1 films. Or hear of this fine Russian built piece of engineering and ecological disaster? It took the title of biggest earth fill dam away from the Oahe dam in South Dakota. There's been a real problem with salination and lack of topsoil renewal with the Aswan. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aswan_dam I also am an airplane fan. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F-15 Still hope that actual freedom loving people have a shot in Egypt. Finding believable news is hard. My ( very limited ) experience is that people are usually very nice. Groups are usually not. | ||
| Aesquire |
Looks like violent revolution with the MB and marxists taking over Friday. Maybe Anderson Cooper will walk between the palace and the mob. | ||
| Trojan |
Is allowing the expansion of brutally oppressive international totalitarian fascist rule really something that freedom-loving people should tolerate? You forget that Egypt (and Tunisia, Saudi Arabie, Jordan...) have all been ruled by brutally oppressive totalitarian fascists (I'll also add the word corrupt in there somewhere) for over 30 years already, happily supported by the USA and Eu with billions of dollars of arms sales and aid in return fo oil and favours in the middle east. Now that there is a genuinely popular uprising against this government we are all scared of there being another totalitarian ruler? Maybe we are more scared of something we don't understand and that has been constantly demonised over the years by our very effective right wing press and politicians. If the Egyptian people decide they want islamist rulers and sharia law then surely they should be allowed to have it (even if we don't agree with it and find it offensive). However this revolution in Egypt now is not just a MB organised uprising and I think we should credit the Egyptian public with more inteligence than a large proportion of the media have done so far and let them find their own way. The biggest danger we face is that Mubarek will fall and there will be a vacuum into which the radicals will gladly step an take over. If we fail to support the moderate 'candidates' then we will have to accept what comes. We cannot afford to permit the islamists to gain another foothold, or to gain more time towards achieving nuclear weapons capability. No, we must impose our narrow vison of western democracy at all costs on people who should never be allowed to find their own way of government. We should use the nuclear weapons that we have lots of (why does nobody complain that we have them?) to wuipe them out completely. Gonocide is of course completely justified if our god says we can do it after all. Islam has been governing most of the middle east for over a thousand years (before we had any form of government at all and America was not even discovered), so is obviously wrong and must be wiped out? Maybe tolerance on all sides would be a much better idea? I saw a disturbing documentary last night about ultra zionists in Israel. They also seem to have the view that Palestinians and arabs in general are second or third class citizens and need to be 'cleansed' from the area at all costs. Maybe a few cattle trucks and gas chambers would do the job? Is it any wonder they fight back with bricks and stones against helicopters and bombs? | ||
| Blake |
>>> If the Egyptian people decide they want islamist rulers and sharia law then surely they should be allowed to have it (even if we don't agree with it and find it offensive). Again, islamism is the new Naziism, but with less scruples. Again, simply review history, review what the islamists advocate, recognize evil and oppose it, or lick it's boot. >>> I saw a disturbing documentary last night about ultra zionists in Israel. They also seem to have the view that Palestinians and arabs in general are second or third class citizens and need to be 'cleansed' from the area at all costs. Maybe a few cattle trucks and gas chambers would do the job? After seeing year after year of their children being slaughtered by islamist terrorists, after having made concession after concession to islamist demands, after being threatened incessantly with destruction at the hands of islamists, is that really so tough to understand? And yet Israel refuses to adopt extremism. Did the BBC ever run a documentary showing the much more rampant infection of hatred towards Israel within Palestinian and Arab culture. Pure, unmitigated evil. It would make Goebles blush. You don't seem to be getting the full story. It is out there, probably not on the notoriously left leaning BBC. Try Brigitte Gabriel's book, Because They Hate. Matt, no one fears that we will employ ideologically rooted terrorism towards nuking Tehran or the sanctuaries of al qaeda. The converse is not true. Reality, history, islamist ideology bear out that very well-founded concern. Islamism is not morally equivalent to secular democratic government; it is misogynistic, racist, bigotted barbarism. Wake up mate. Have you forgotten ... Madrid March 11th, 2004 London July 5th,2005 You assert Mubarek is corrupt and oppressive? I await your reasoned presentation showing that. Oppressive of the MB, a racist, terrorist, criminal islamist fascist organization? Uh, yeah. Others? | ||
| Trojan |
Again, islamism is the new Naziism, but with less scruples. I think you overplay this similarity I'm afraid. Germany invaded not one but 4 separate sovereign nations before we went to war (Austria, Czechoslavakia, Poland and part of France) in 1939. Between 1938 and 1945 they systematially murdered more than 6 million jews, gypsys, slavs, political prisoners, intelectuals and other 'un Aryan' groups they took exception to. Russia and China have managed to exterminate almost as many 'enemies of the state' over the years, and quite a few of our 'friendly' dictators have managed a pretty good effort at genocide in their countries on a massive scales without us reacting. Remember we have failed to lift a finger in Ruwanda, Sudan, Somalia, Zimbabwe just to name a few. None of these have been islamic fundamentalists though so that is OK of course. Iraq used western supplied chemical weapons against Iran during their war, but we didn't complain or lift a finger then either did we? At that time Saddam was our friend of course  So far in terms of islamic fundamentalist nations not even Iran or Afghanistan has managed that , so the comparison is not even close. By the way, I abhor the way sharia law is interpreted and applied in some of thes countries (some of whom are actively supported and receive Billions of dollars worth of arms from USA/UK) and am certainly not defending or proposing it as a decent alternative to democratic governence. However I defend completely the right of people to choose their own governments. As for forgeting July 5th in London I find that insulting. I have friends still in the Police who attended those bombings and have certainly not forgotten that or the Madrid bomb either. Nor however have I forgotten the IRA/INLA bombings that pervaded the 1970-1990 period on the UK mainland and Northern Ireland, or the Bader Meinhof killings in Germany during he 70's, or any of the other terrorist atrocoties that have taken place over the years, not all by islamists you may note. Did the BBC ever run a documentary showing the much more rampant infection of hatred towards Israel within Palestinian and Arab culture. Yes they have. I have seen and can appreciate both sides of the argument, but the zionists are delieratley and systematically trying to remove the arabs from Israel for no other reason than 'God told us we are chosen'. That to me is no different to any other religious zealotry it normally has exactly he same end result. | ||
| Moxnix |
No group more dangerous than Brit football hooligans, imnsho. | ||
| Sayitaintso |
This may be bogus crap, but if its not it gives me hope.....especially if its reciprocated. http://imgur.com/NhC4m | ||
| Blake |
Let folks vote? Agree. Allow naziism or its islamism cohort to spread, gain power. No. Right, islamism has yet to accrue the ghastly record of Naziism or Marxism. We should stand by impotently until it does? Give peace a chance? What is that you say Mr. Chamberlain? Huh? Really??? What, if not London, Madrid, Bali, 911, and the other THOUSANDS of Islamist terrorist attacks in recent history will it take to alter your view concerning the Islamist threat that we are facing, anything short of a mushroom cloud over one of our great cities? How many beheadings to change your mind? No islamist influence in North Africa? You might could find some better source for news. Indonesia? How about France? The Netherlands? Russia? Fort Hood? You seem intent upon equating the poor behavior of a tiny few (some Jews in Israel) to the massively state-endorsed, koran-mandated murder, war, racism, bigotry, oppression and mysogeny embraced by islamists and affirmed by their leaders, their islamist mullocracies. We should be impotent in confronting evil now because we failed to do so in the past? Huh? We should ignore the threat of islamism because mass-murder and genocide were products of Marxism? Huh? | ||
| Sayitaintso |
Nobody is advocating to ignore the threat. The question is where to start? The Imams? Are we prepared to go "there"? Thats really the root of the whole problem isnt it....the Koran and the Imams. Anything less is just picking around the edges and attacking the symptoms of the disease. | ||
| Fast1075 |
The bad guys have no compelling reason to stop what they are doing. That is the root of the problem. The fix bay well be difficult...what could someone come up with that could deter a martyrdom seeking psycopath...the death penalty??? Hardly. "We" the peace loving people are compelled to love our enemies....sort of a catch 22 huh?? Some nutjob comes after me or my family...they are going to end up being hog feed.... | ||
| Blake |
>>> Yes they have. I have seen and can appreciate both sides of the argument, You appreciate the state endorsed demonization of Jews??? Dressing toddlers up in mock bomb vests? Teaching hate, racism, and bigotry? I know you don't. But that is what is happening. I think you don't know the truth about islamism. In 1935 we had the same issue with naziism. In 1945 we had the same issue with marxism. How do we avoid making the same deadly horrible mistake today concerning islamism? >>> but the zionists are delieratley and systematically trying to remove the arabs from Israel for no other reason than 'God told us we are chosen'. That to me is no different to any other religious zealotry it normally has exactly he same end result. Are they murdering their children with the support of 57 Zionist states around the world? You sure do haft'a dig deep to find even a sliver of an argument for morally equating the behavior of barbaric mass-murdering islamists to a settlement of Jews, in their own nation no less. Bad Jews! Stop that! Just for comparison's sake, what happened to the Jewish populations in Islamist nations? What happened to Christians in islamists nations? Odd how it was Christians targeted in Somalia by Muslim militants. Same in Indonesia. Same in Sudan. Same in Nigeria. Same anywhere the islamists gain power. Who defended who in Kosova and Bosnia-Herzegovenia (?spelling?)? But hey! I hope your optimism comes good. Maybe Blair and Bush were right about democracy and freedom spreading in the m-east. Unfortunately, until the islamists are marginalized even in Arab culture, it seems unlikely. Hope I'm wrong. We should know soon enough. (Message edited by blake on February 04, 2011) | ||
| Blake |
Patrick, I don't think I have seen that film. I'll put it on the list to see. Have definitely heard of tha Aswan. Perfect example of the arrogance and ignorance of man in action. Fairly simple to correct though, might even be fun too. | ||
| Aesquire |
http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/496 363/20900.html My post of Friday, April 18, 2003 - 10:17 pm: A few facts for Trojan. The Soviets murdered way more of their own people than Hitler. Mao makes Hitler look like a piker. The big difference is, the nazi's were defeated, and we got the records. The Germans keep very good records. Communism hasn't been defeated, and they lie about everything. The Soviets lied about their population, military readiness, and how much food their people had to eat. The Chinese won't even admit to massacres that were on tv. ( and it's considered bad form to notice these people are telling you lies. Don't ask me why. ) When I was a kid, Kansas grew more wheat than the entire Soviet Union. ( including the Ukraine) When I was in college, we sent more wheat from N & S Dakota to Russia than total world production, not counting the U.S. The Soviets never paid us back for all those planes, trucks, tanks, guns, food, etc. we sent them in WW2. Mostly they don't even admit we sent them. I've seen films where Soviet Army truck drivers insist the Ford they are driving came from a Russian Factory. Come to think of it, they never paid Rolls Royce for the jet engines they copied for the Mig-15. ( you often have to ask "what were they thinking" about politicians, when it comes to giving stuff to an avowed enemy. ) As far as the Zionists removing the Arabs from Israel.... WTF? I don't doubt there is some rant-o-matic web page somewhere that has a idiot calling for racial purity and kicking out the AArabs, but it's not reality. I could probably find some web page calling for the massacre of dark skinned folk to purify the country of their influence. What's your bet I find a British one before the American one? ( and it might be German ) Doesn't happen though. AND EVERYONE HERE thinks those idiots are evil. I've yet to see people dancing in the streets of Haifa when Arabs are murdered in mass. | ||
| Aesquire |
Remember we have failed to lift a finger in Ruwanda, Sudan, Somalia, Zimbabwe just to name a few. None of these have been islamic fundamentalists though so that is OK of course. Huh? Ok, Zimbabwe is a straight forward thug run Kleptocracy. I don't Blame England for that..... I admit that many former Brit colonies turned out pretty good. ( I live in one ) Old French colonies? Damn. Belgium? Double Damn. Ruwanda is a tribal conflict. I don't think the limb chopping machete guys went to church and got the point. But Somalia? Sudan? If that's NOT jihad & kleptocracy, I think I missed something. Are they not killing Black Christians to steal the land? Who's in charge over there, anyway? I admit there is much evil in the world we have not gone out and stopped. In many cases, there is nothing that can be done. Some cultures just suck, and will always suck until destroyed. What replaces that suck culture is an unknown. ( because your politicians, and ours, won't ever just tell them, "be a freaking copy of England until you figure out something better... because what you have now isn't working....and hasn't for 6 thousand years" ) Anyway, what if we played Team America, World Police???? I doubt you'd be happier. | ||
| Ezblast |
Then everything would be bon. EZ | ||
| Aesquire |
Let me issue a profound apology to the Brits. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/wikileak s/8304654/WikiLeaks-cables-US-agrees-to-tell-Russi a-Britains-nuclear-secrets.html# I have read that Barack adopted his fathers anticolonial marxist ideals. ( source, one of Obama's multiple biographies written before any actual accomplishments, "Dreams OF My Father" and a book about his obsession with his absent father ) Pity Daddy Dearest, the Communist Revolutionary, didn't come from a former French colony, then France would be the bad guy. Again, sorry about the narcissistic Ipod, the insults to the Queen, PM, and the British People. | ||
| Aesquire |
http://www.slate.com/id/2283168/ | ||
| Hootowl |
And when BO is out of office in two years, we're going to want our bust of Winston Churchill back. Please. | ||
| Reindog |
Krauthammer: Towards A Soft Landing for Egypt. . The Kraut gets it. The exuberance at the beginning of a revolution usually ends up with dictatorship and brutal oppression far worse than what the revolt was over in the first place. The Muslim Brotherhood, just like the Bolsheviks in the Czarist Russia uprising, are waiting in the wings to take over. It is time for the army to step in and stabilize Egypt's institutions. The alternative is a step towards Armageddon. The winds whipping up far away will consume us all if Islamic Fascism continues to grow, making World War II seem like a picnic on a sunny day in comparison. (Message edited by reindog on February 05, 2011) | ||
| Blake |
<sigh>  May God save us all from fools and marxists. | ||
| Aesquire |
http://apnews.myway.com/article/20110209/D9L9882G1 .html The first Google Revolution? Who is making money on this? Really. Who? ( besides G. Soros ) http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110209/ap_on_re_mi_ea /ml_egypt_foreign_minister_2 We aren't the only ones confused at the U.S. admin's stance on Egypt. I believe it's currently that Hosni is not a dictator, who must leave yesterday, or next month or Sept. or whenever he feels like it..... Not that we have any right to tell anyone else what to do but he'd better leave right now or else..... Or in a month. Or later. | ||
| Aesquire |
Times like these, leaders like these, make me want to be an enemy of the U.S. so I can get paid a lot of money not to do anything.  ( I loved "The Mouse That Roared" ) Blake, it gets so tiresome to keep interrupting a rant with the semi-obligatory "not all muslims are terrorists" bit. So we should use more precise terms. "jihadi" one who is on jihad, ( Translation: Struggle ) now this CAN mean a personal struggle to be a better person. That's the "new age" version, and once a valid meaning, now mostly a lie told to say that the "struggle" is not to rule the world. Still, despite the potential confusion, "Jihadi" is a pretty good word for islamofascist terrorists. If you are not one and on a personal struggle to improve in the eyes of Allah, you can simply tell us that & we'll believe you. ( unless you were caught lighting a fuse ) Another good term might be "Islamist" one who is pushing sharia law and the Caliphate. After all, of about 2 billion muslims, only 10% agree with violent jihad. ( per a poll taken world wide ) That's just 200 million. Only a fraction of those actually would go on violent jihad, but haven't had the chance to. That number is unknown. A million? 20 million? But a jihadi, or islamist, is actively trying to conquer the world, or your town. | ||
| Aesquire |
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xgvlkk_egypt-repo rter-quits-propaganda-machine_news Censorship & propaganda. | ||
| Two_seasons |
Trojan: I've been reading this thread for awhile and cannot believe that you see Christianity and Islam as two equal faiths. No where will you find in the New Testament any mention of blood to be shed for the faith. Jesus said "it is finished" and so it is. But the Quran teaches that violence against your neighbor is ok, even to the point of murdering them! If you do not believe that Jesus died for all of us, that He is our Lord and Savior, then that is something you'll have to reconcile someday with the One who created you. But to sit on this site and troll away with your equivilancy screed is boorish at best. | ||
| Moxnix |
Wasn't it just last week the British PM was saying they need to take another look at multiculturalism? Regarding the activities of muslims, it's my opinion based on my travels, that there are no systems and values as good as those held by 70% of the population in the United States. Naturally, I wouldn't expect our foreign friends to agree. America is changing, as is most of the world. It irks me to have 30% of the US forcing aberrative laws on the majority. And, to toss in the "G" word for a burr under a few saddles: Everyone worships something, either God or something else. | ||
| Blake |
Good point Patrick, I fully affirm and uphold that not all muslims are terrorists. In fact most, the vast vast majority of muslims are not violent or terrorists. Not all nazis were genocidal mass-murderers. In fact most, the vast vast majority of nazis were not genocidal mass-murderers. Totalitarian islamism like nazism before it is the root of the problem. The islamists want to revert to a modern equivalent of ancient warring raiding desert culture. They certainly are not a nation of homeless brutally oppressed escaped slaves wandering the desert looking for a home while fending off raiders and pillagers for four decades. Mohomod may have had some valid claim to at least part of that type of situation in his time at one point, not sure. But no more. Many of 9/11 fame were well to do educated young men with bright futures. They have to invent their persecution and their "lost in the desert wandering" in order to drum up indignant rage. It is a deadly evil joke. It needs to be wiped from this earth. (Message edited by Blake on February 10, 2011) |
