| Author | Message | ||
     Ulykan |
https://wmoon.wordpress.com/2010/11/03/harleys-mai n-problem-its-base/I came across this story tonight and have to agree with the writer. It's an interesting read and I couldn't agree more. | ||
| Ezblast |
True | ||
| Skinstains |
Victory will steamroll H-D one day. All I can do is hope that it's sooner not later. FHD . | ||
| Prof_stack |
Agreed. One thing not mentioned, but perhaps implied, is that us geezer riders near 60 are often looking for a lighter motorcycle. 700+ pounds is not easy to monkey around the driveway, let alone pick up if we dump it. Heck, even the Sportsters are 550+ pounds. Funny, this little thumper is getting my attention right now, hoping to see one at the MC show in December:  | ||
| Ezblast |
Wonder if it could handle a cylinder giving it 500cc - lol  EZ | ||
| Whisperstealth |
Think I'd want a kawi versey's over the honda thumper. | ||
| Fast1075 |
I have reserved a test ride at the Honda shop for the first one to come to town...I have always wanted a slick 250 without having to roll my own....all it needs is some bar ends, a set of Pilot Powers and a rider that understands momentum (like an old school 125 racer like me  ) And as I get back to my "normal" weight of under 125 pounds...nearly anything runs good (Message edited by fast1075 on November 03, 2010) | ||
| Johnnylunchbox |
HD is so F'ed it's not funny. I'm not a HD hater, but the emperor has no clothes. | ||
| Jaimec |
Going off on a tangent here... I'm thinking seriously of replacing my 1125R with a BMW F800ST. I know it'll be way down on power, but it'll have a more comfortable riding position, it has a belt drive, it has available hard luggage and not just from the OEM but from the aftermarket as well. It has belt drive AND it is fully supported by the parent company. But I do love my 1125R... I just HATE the thought that it has a known "End of Life" (six more years) and I get treated even worse by the manufacturer (Harley, NOT Buell) than I used to with parts delivery times. I just don't know... :-( | ||
| Iman501 |
i bet you guys you'll be able to get parts from some aftermarket ppl eventually, look at vincent and other extinct brands....you can still get a lot of parts for bikes like them cant you? | ||
| Swordsman |
Good article, but what the hell does "Iow" mean...? ~SM | ||
| Tpoppa |
I don't think HD will go away. I do expect them to shrink significantly. 10 years from now, they'll be shipping far less cycles than today. Merchandise and licensing will keep them going. Perhaps they'll introduce a new model outside of their 'comfort zone.' If they do, it will be out of desperation, rather than innovative planning to stay ahead of the motorcycle market. Time will tell. | ||
| Koz5150 |
Don't kid yourself, harley will not die. the may seriously downsize (which would be a good thing) but I just don't see them becoming extinct. Give it anther 15 or 20 year and there will be another surge in the market for their bikes, it always happens. I also don't believe that Victory will steamroll HD. Harley doesn't sell bikes, they sell a culture, a heritage, a status symbol... Say what you want, but even if the competion's brand is faster, lighter, higher quality, easier to work on, cheaper, more comfortable, better paint options, more chrome, less chrome, blah blah blah... It's still not a Harley and that makes a difference to a lot of people. Don't believe me? Come to Milwaukee during the next 5 year rally (2013). If I could buy any bike today it would be a 2003 HD Wide Glide. That bike will always be one of the coolest in my mind and it has nothing to do with any of the stuff I listed above. It's just cool. Don't believe others think this way? How do you explain people purchasing any of the tuber or XB model bikes when you could get so much more quality and performance from an established brand like Honda? cause people thought the Buell was cool (and I still do, and that's why my M2 will stay with me forever). | ||
| Scooter808484 |
Say what you want, but even if the competion's brand is faster, lighter, higher quality, easier to work on, cheaper, more comfortable, better paint options, more chrome, less chrome, blah blah blah... It's still not a Harley and that makes a difference to a lot of people. Don't believe me? Come to Milwaukee during the next 5 year rally (2013). Pretty much true... EXCEPT if they start manufacturing overseas, like they appear to be getting ready to do, the "Made in America" appeal will be gone. Then I think they are in real trouble. | ||
| Prof_stack |
IOW - "in other words" | ||
| Macbuell |
Kaz, you are missing a key point .. those that love Harley and buy into that culture are getting older and Harley is not attracting newer and younger buyers. What happens when those loyal HD supporters are no longer buying new motorcycles? As time goes by HD will continue to lose market share because they cannot attract new buyers. Companies that continue to lose market share either get acquired by another competitor or slowly fade away. (Message edited by macbuell on November 03, 2010) | ||
| Tpoppa |
Don't believe me? Come to Milwaukee during the next 5 year rally (2013). They're holding it at the Senior Center. Dinner will be served at 4:30 sharp  | ||
| Jaimec |
Space will be limited because those new Harley trikes take up a whole parking spot, not half like back when their "base" rode two-wheelers. | ||
| Hybridmomentspass |
oh great, another HD bashing thread.... hilarious, thanks guys hd wont go away hd will continue to be a huge player in the bike game older HD owners will go away.....but they'll keep getting new people, so its not like they will run out of customers i really liked Koz' post, sums up a lot of things i feel. | ||
| Firebolt020283 |
IF they stay american they will live on because they are a status symbol or american Icon. IF they go over seas they will die because they will loose all of that. | ||
| Court |
>>>It's still not a Harley and that makes a difference to a lot of people. It used to . . to me. . . back in the days when I was a fanatic. I had 9 Harley's, traveled to all the H.O.G. events I could get to, rode cross country with their Chairman, from California to Milwuakee with Wille G, and had a generally great time. The fuzz is off. The bikes are good but not great and no better in terms of quality than any others. The "Made in America" thing was, at least to me, a huge lure. I'd grown up seeing pics of my Grandfather riding his Indians and Harleys. HD was a legend. Harley-Davidson pretty well watered a lot of that down themselves. They, in their "snobbery phase" got complacent, stopped listening, stopped caring and generally tool the attitude "if we build it and you don't like it, you are unpatriotic". Folks, myself included, bought into that for a while. Then they set out to capture and coral a younger demographic. Someone, now retired, (one of the 13) brought a brilliant plan to them for an entry level bike. The project was laughed at and the mindset was "if they aren't tough enough to ride a REAL Harley . . . that's their problem". Brappppaappaapp. So he took the plan to the folks at Buell and the Blast was born. The Blast was not as much a motorcycle as it was a mindset and a way of doing things. It worked and the Blast went on to be one of the most reliable motorcycles ever made. No Harley-Davidson made has ever rivaled it's numbers. Then HD decided that they'd "pass on" some costs to Buell in the costs of the Blast motor. One of the reasons that the Blast got cubed was that in the last couple years of production I could go to a dealer, buy the parts individually and build a motor for less than HD was charging Buell. It was a "take it or leave it" scam. I don't think Harley-Davidson will go away. But I don't see them returning, under the current corporate "cover you ass" culture, to the prominence the firm once enjoyed. In all candor, the bikes are somewhat boring now. I'd still like to have another FLHTC but I'm not sure I see it happening. At one time in my life, about the time I bought an XLCR and XR-1000 the same day, I would have paid twice anything else to have a "Real Harley". Now, looking at that $25K or whatever a dresser goes for now, I'd probably buy something else. The current Harley-Davidson is barely related to the Harley-Davidson of 10 years ago. To get a better understanding look at the number of folks, even when offered sweet 7-figure deals, have tossed up their hands and walked away. Kind of a shame really. | ||
| Pwnzor |
even if the competion's brand is faster, lighter, higher quality, easier to work on, cheaper, HAHAHAHAH, you said "if". | ||
| Prof_stack |
If HD took their new Superlow and #1 - moved the footpegs in #2 - moved the pipes up #3 - increased shock travel (might fix #2) #4 - increased fork travel then I would seriously consider it as my next bike. | ||
| Cityxslicker |
I just wonder if this happens over on the Mustang boards | ||
| Danger_dave |
Have a new 103 Cube Road King in the shed currently. One of the nicest motorcycles I've ever tested. Excellent vehicle. Must really annoy the haters. | ||
| Danger_dave |
In fact I've just done quite a lot of miles on both of these.  The Fat Boy doesn't appeal as much as it once did - being able to jump from one to the other - the 96 cube and softail chassis has fallen behind the capability of the 103 in the touring rig. I'm not just winding-up either. The '11 Road King is an excellent touring or large man's (me) bike and I think it looks great too. | ||
| Jb2 |
I've had my fun tickling the Harley faithful of their zeal for the brand. Having said that I've owned 5 total and had good results with most of them. I for one don't think Harley will fail even though they've had many shortcomings. If you're like me, riding Harleys when Harleys weren't cool, then you've seen the numbers of bikes and riders grow at an astounding rate. While you can't take that away from them you also have to look at another positive; compare the number of accessories available 20 years ago to today. Look at the options a new bike owner has from the blingy chrome items to real touring and performance items. I have to applaud HD for the good they've done. I do believe they've lost their focus. I do believe they did Buell wrong in a big way. I do know I'll never own another. But, having said all that, I do believe they'll be around long after we're feeding the flowers from the dirtside. | ||
| Danger_dave |
I also think that Housing affordabilty for young people is doing more to detract from big ticket recreational purchases than the geezer factor. The young ones I talk too still dig 'em. But then we don't have the same loud pipe and no protective clothing problems that you guys complain about. There are a few, but pretty much limited to the real outlaws. | ||
| Doughj04 |
Harley is not going overseas. They have had a plant in Brazil since the late 90's/early 2000's, and are now in process of completing the plant they are building in India. They built these plants to assemble the bikes in these countries, as it costs less to do this than build the bikes in America and ship them to these countries, due to their import tariffs. All the work is still done in the US, then shipped to these countries, and the final assembly is done in their respective countries. | ||
| Strokizator |
Hey Dave, I walked by the exact same Road King the last time at the dealership and the cool blue pearl/black paint job is beautiful. People like to scoff at the chrome crap that goes with HD but the last time I looked, the Touratek book full of BMW farkles weighed in at a couple of pounds. |
