| Author | Message | ||
     Buellkowski |
If reducing production costs accomodates a corporate goal of lowering the MSRP of H-D bikes in order to stimulate sales, then all parties stand a chance to regain something from this contract. If reducing production costs accomodates a corporate goal of increasing profits for the board & shareholders, then the workers truly will have lost with this contract. I've seen this before with longshore & aerospace contract negotiations. When times are good, the workers win. When times are bad, the employers win. | ||
| 86129squids |
+1, what Court said. "forum" comes from the Greek, once upon a time it was a great tool for folks to meet and discuss the issues of the day- certainly our concepts of democracy originated from such simple, true occasions of meeting and discussing important things with our peers. Things have changed, not for the better. Peace, love, happiness to you all. | ||
| 86129squids |
Ummm, I just remembered that this thread title was "HD USW contract"- anyone able to/care to contribute to the topic? Thanks. | ||
| Rainman |
BadWeb is merely a microcosm of the country at large. We are divided. Our side is right. The other side is wrong. The difference is that on BadWeb, we have something that unites us. Well, sometimes. Note: Author is firmly in the middle politically) | ||
| Bikertrash05 |
Let's get back on topic...  | ||
| Reindog |
Wowsas! I would have loved to attend Homecoming but unfortunately (?) I had just gotten a job after being laid off for 13 months and couldn't swing it from San Diego. Dana and Rocco and others rocked in what they did. Why throw this in our face? I didn't see you at many of OUR  events in Kalifornia. (But you would have been totally welcome). I like a lot (but not all) of the people here who I disagree with. Many I have never met face to face, but look forward to it someday. Take a chill pill and let's work together to defeat Obama. | ||
| Hootowl |
I'm still waiting for my Gianna Michaels pictures. | ||
| Swordsman |
I find it interesting that the whole thread went to hell not because of what Rocket said, but simply that he was the one who said it. Is it not the general consensus around here that H-D corporate sucks? Back OT, I'm just waiting for them to move production out of the country. Seems like it's just a matter of time now. ~SM | ||
| Bads1 |
}I'm just waiting for them to move production out of the country. Seems like it's just a matter of time now Highly doubt that everything would ever go. We're going see though what is going to happen in just days. I can say this much. The HOG Rally was just this past weekend. Milwaukee made it so the bikers had to park in parking lots and walk to the most popular bars in Downtown Milwaukee. BIG Mistake on Milwaukees part. You don't shut down traffic to Water Street for parking for bikes. I heard it was a big downer for alot of HOG members State wide.You'd think Milwaukee would be more welcoming with what is at stake here. | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
the whole thread went to hell not because of what Rocket said, but simply that he was the one who said it. Exactly!!!! That was my point. For the most part, we aren't even responding to what is said. We are reading into every statement motives and intent that may or may not be there. Rocket's post was as much an attack on those who have advocated management's point of view as it was a statement of the HD situation. The HD workers are getting screwed not because the little guy ALWAYS gets screwed but because HD's current management is chocked full of retards. No one can support what HD's management is doing pro-union or not. The problem is that the dialog is so poisoned now that folks feel the need to "cut to the chase". | ||
| Davegess |
I wish for two things, one is that H-D management would have had the foresight to address issues with manufacturing flexibility and the operating cost of the engine plant decades ago. if they had started this 20 years ago when times were good I believe they could have come up with a solution that would have addressed the financial needs AND keep these jobs as good paying positions. The Union could have been aggressive about pushing the company to change back then but I suspect that would have fallen on deaf ears even if they that thought to do it (and the idea would not have). Second I wish they hadn't pissed a quarter of a billion down the MV hole. If they had that money in the ban now things might be looking better. And third (so I lied  i wish folks would stop complaining about how over paid these union guys are. Why do we all embrace this race to the lowest possible wages? Do we want to live like the Chinese? Do we want to see the American way of life continue to prosper? | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
Unions are not always good or always bad. The problem is that we can't have an objective conversation about them one way or another. | ||
| Bads1 |
Hell ya can't have a Armor All thread without a argument. | ||
| Reindog |
I loved being a Teamster. As a part-time UPS warehouseman I was able to complete my lower division engineering requirements while earning a decent wage and benefits. Sure I encountered a few guys named Cheech at the union hall but at least I "knew" how to vote at election time. Falling wages are a concern but it doesn't happen in a vacuum. Corporate AND union greed helped bring GM down. That is a bad thing. One of the ways to correct the situation is to allow workers to purchase part of the corporation so they have a vested interest in its success. In the old days, you could quit and start work at the plant across the street. That plant is now across the ocean. Read Thomas Friedman's "The World is Flat" for perspective. Friedman is a Liberal but for the most part, he "gets" it. | ||
| Bikertrash05 |
What, doesn't everyone Armor All their paint?  | ||
| Badlionsfan |
Here ya go HootOwl  | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
The same goes for "management". Management isn't always bad. People who make a lot of money didn't necessarily do it by exploiting the "little guy". Are there skunky employers? Absolutely! Just like there are lazy workers who milk the clock. | ||
| Buellkowski |
One of the ways to correct the situation is to allow workers to purchase part of the corporation so they have a vested interest in its success. Workers' ownership of the means of production? Tom, that's a surprisingly pinko statement coming from you.  I'm with you, though. Tie a paycheck to performance metrics and watch how well folks end up doing their jobs. Just be honest about the objectives you set. | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
Gianna Michaels has GIGANTIC...... Hands. | ||
| Hootowl |
She's beautiful, she's rich, she's got huge...tracts of land! | ||
| Dalton_gang |
+1 Mayer. Swordsman - "the whole thread went to hell not because of what Rocket said, but simply that he was the one who said it." I disagree with that. It IS what he says that I usually have a problem with. Rocco, I was at HC `10 and I introduced myself to you as a friend here on BWB who frequently disagrees with you. I doubt that you remember me, but I was sincere then, just as I'm being sincere now and still disagree with you too. You always come off as being a disadvantaged, hard working, bleeding heart, union, patriot and that everyone who disagrees with your core values (unionism) is just plain wrong and is anti American. You constantly take jabs and insult people like myself. (latest example): "I still love all the hate from you dumb@sses toward the American worker. Your brainwashing is complete." Well guess what? I'M an American Worker Too and there are a lot of other board members here who consider themselves to also be good, honest, hard working Americans and also feel that you don't have to be a member of a labor union to make this country great so WTF?? Some of us actually did take a risk and made things better for ourselves by going out on our own, without the union umbrella. If you had any idea of all the work, sacrifice, investment ect.. that I and others here have made not only to survive but also to create a business out of nothing. Then to constantly have big union bullies bash and attack us and our customers for years and years with pickets, billboards, news articles, hand bills, boycotts(primary and secondary), salting, name calling, etc etc...(not to mention the illegal tactics) Well maybe you would feel a little differently about organized labor and would back off a little and cut us some slack when we express our dislike for your beloved unions. Now to get back on topic, I agree that HD is really screwing a lot of people over lately and I sincerely wish all of those union workers well even though most of them would normally wish me ill while flipping me the bird while calling me a rat-scab-mfer. | ||
| Shellyo |
I gotta chime in here... To the OP... Bikertrash05, good luck and I sincerely hope you get rehired soon!!! I, like many here, am not a fan of current Harley management. I worked for a company that was run like Harley is now, and that company is no longer in business! (It was the biggest New Home Builders in Canada and one of the biggest in North America.) I, however, really like some of their bikes... in fact I'd have to say that I love my Road King. Hell... I even like my dealer. I'm actually grateful to Harley for providing me with the opportunity to purchase my S1W and XB12XT... and for providing Erik the corporate structure (as incredibly flawed as it was) to produce such amazing machines. Please do not wish for the demise of Harley, instead hope that it can make it's way through the current downturn (and bad management) and again provide secure careers for it's (and it's dealer's) employees! (Message edited by shellyo on September 08, 2010) (Message edited by shellyo on September 08, 2010) | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
The demise of Harley means the demise of lots of caring and passionate dealers and dealer personnel. No one should wish for that. | ||
| Twobuells |
"If reducing production costs accomodates a corporate goal of lowering the MSRP of H-D bikes in order to stimulate sales, then all parties stand a chance to regain something from this contract. " TRUE statement +1 Buellkowski, Dave G, Court & ft_bstrd (Message edited by TwoBuells on September 08, 2010) | ||
| Shellyo |
Ft_bstrd... my point exactly,but some of the rhetoric and anger directed at Harley sure makes it feel like that is what some are wishing for. | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
I truly worry about the dealers. They sell what they get. Period. If the market gets poisoned or the product gets tainted, the dealership suffers. I want the current management to suffer. Unfortunately, many innocent hard working people are going to have to take it in the shorts until that happens. I believe that many dealers are seeking alternative sources of income (other models) to be sold along side the Harley Stock just in case. It's pretty interesting. | ||
| Sifo |
Not to paint all dealers with this same brush, but my last 2 oil changes I've had dealers not want to sell me a Buell oil filter that they had in stock. WTF! Different dealer each time. I guess they don't want my cash. Those dealers can go under and not be missed. | ||
| Badlionsfan |
There's probably too many dealers at this point. The good ones will survive. | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
The dealers are concerned about the same thing Buell owners are, part availability. They have Blasts in the fleet for RE and they are concerned that they won't have filters available. Blast parts will become scarce more quickly than other Buell parts because the dealers will secure them first and hold onto them. Luckily, you can source filters from other places for less money, but it doesn't prevent the hoarding behavior. We are seeing that among our own Buell population here. How many have bought a part simply because you might need one later (voltage regulator, fuel pump, stator, etc.). The problem is that parts in private ownership don't show up in the system. Parts at dealers do. The really sad part is that HD could stand to make a tidy profit by sourcing Buell parts directly and cutting out the dealer. | ||
| Johnnymceldoo |
Sorry for the thread hijack biker. |
