| Author | Message | ||
     Buellkowski |
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/37759828/ns/disaster_i n_the_gulf/ Unbelievable. | ||
| Rwven |
Prophetical is more like it.... | ||
| Rwven |
I wonder why it took the Administration 8 weeks to react to the oil gusher but only about 8 minutes to react to Rep. Barton's statement? | ||
| Cowboy |
Would someone with a legal background clearfy this.(I am no lawer) but as I under stand this problem if It had been left a loan BP would be responsible for the intire clean up, but after securing this money it is like posting a bond just walkaway No future responsibility. | ||
| Court |
Scarier yet was that they let Biden do the economic briefing today. I was thrilled to hear that there are 10X as many construction jobs in just the last year. I kept waiting for someone to tell him abo the tragic unemployment figures the government released yesterday. In addition..... Someone needs to ket the construction industry know. These guys are pathological liars. | ||
| Buellkowski |
@ Rwven, the Administration gave BP plenty of opportunities to fix their own mess in the manners BP said could work. Government interference in private business is bad, right? I would not have wanted to rush in quickly to take over the problem, either. Once you jump into a problem, you own it. But when it became clear to everyone that BP was floating a raft of BS and the oil kept coming, of course the White House had to step in. @ Cowboy, the fund was set up because BP's market value is tanking. The fund protects $20B for claims & cleanup in case BP goes broke. The fund does not relieve BP for any additional responsibility for claims above the $20B. | ||
| Toronto_s3 |
Court said, "These guys are pathological liars." Unlike the guys in the previous administration like Bush, Cheney and Rumsfield? I guess the big question is, is it scarier to have pathological liars that lie to the American public about unemployment numbers or is it scarier to have pathological liars that lie to the American public about going to war and getting U.S. soldiers killed? | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
Odd that the administration declined international aid from multiple countries (17 countries with 21 different offers) under cover of the Jones Act. Funny that the Administration was able to accept foreign aid by waiving the Jones Act during the Katrina clean up. Know who screams the loudest when the Jones Act gets waived? The unions. | ||
| Rwven |
Toronto s3, You are right, Obama and Biden are off the hook. As well as every Administration in perpetuity. Why are we in this handbasket and where are we going? | ||
| Hootowl |
"pathological liars that lie to the American public about going to war" Bad intelligence is not a lie. But you knew that already. Keep feeding your hatred, it isn't hurting anyone but you. | ||
| Buellkowski |
@ FB, the Jones Act was waived after Katrina to allow petroleum products to flow, not to accept foreign aid. I can post Chertoff's 09/01/05 waiver order if you like. Big Oil certainly seems to make politicians do/say strange and contrary things, doesn't it? | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
So the "lie" was obvious, but the "lie" wasn't obvious enough that a special commission and countless foaming at the mouth political enemies couldn't use this obvious "lie" to bring impeachment charges or ANY criminal charges? Could be the "lie" is the one you've sold yourself. | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
@ FB, the Jones Act was waived after Katrina to allow petroleum products to flow, not to accept foreign aid. I can post Chertoff's 09/01/05 waiver order if you like. Big Oil certainly seems to make politicians do/say strange and contrary things, doesn't it? I have it: http://www.npga.org/files/public/Jones_Act_Waver_9 -05.pdf There is nothing that would prohibit the waiver of the Jones Act to aid in the clean up in the Gulf. | ||
| Strokizator |
Toronto s3, I take it personal when someone from another country takes political sides in this country. Something I learned long ago was just because my wife said she hated her mother, I wasn't allowed to say "Yeah, she's a bitch!" Feel free to hate the US as a whole and/or me in particular. | ||
| Aesquire |
Here's Toronto s3's fans. http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard/article-238 45657-north-koreas-world-cup-fans-who-are-really-v olunteers-from-china.do | ||
| Kc10_fe |
Wow talk about dog and pony show. Whoever runs against that guy will use that clip to bury him. Can you please continue to bash/blame the unions for everything? It is DA FUNNIES. When Im not over there making sure warheads hit foreheads, Im a Union Elevator Constructor. Ahh heres to living the American dream through hard work and sacrifices.  | ||
| Aesquire |
Who's bashing unions? I'm in a Union. The Jones Act actually is a pretty good idea, much as I hate to say it. You don't want ships that don't have English speaking drivers coming into port. Denmark's rules for pollution & safety might be just fine, but how about a Liberian flagged ship? However, waivers can be and have been granted. A waiver certainly wouldn't clean up the oil spill Tuesday, but it wouldn't hurt. I hope it's not too late. You have to admit, Barack has a history of helping his Union Minions. Look at the Car company takeovers. I don't think that has a thing to do with this regime not allowing a blanket waiver for foreign ships. For one thing, It SHOULD be on a case by case basis. For another, the bigger the Crisis, the better chance Barack has to exploit & profit from it, so why hurry? Where's Union Elevator? | ||
| Cowboy |
I think the river pilots have the strongedst union ever there is no foren captains runing the Mississippi river they will ride anchor for days waiting for a river pilot. in this case I think it is good (if a ship should hit the leavy and break it all hell would happen.just my dimes worth | ||
| Brumbear |
This is fkin comical who gives a rats ass just fix the friggen leak and sieze all bp's assets and holdings in the US if they don't or can't pay.The thing that scares me is where that 20B is gonna go the people that deserve it will probably never see it and the leak won't get fixed and 12 laywers will gwt all the money for fks sake | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
My point of bringing up the Seafarers International Union was to explain that a good portion of why a waver wasn't being granted was that it would upset the SIU. They pitched holy hell when the Jones Act was waved during Katrina. In general, I agree with the Jones Act. Bush did as well. That said, there is a time to temporarily waive the law in order to expedite corrective action during a time of national crisis. The Saudis were able to minimize the impact of the intentional oil well spill by Saddam during GWI with the same technologies offered by 17 other countries. Had we used these tools, we wouldn't be in the mess we are in now. The oil in the marshes could even be used in part to pay for the foreign aid granted. Given the continued and repetitive refusal (21 separate offers of aid) and the capacity to waive the Jones Act at any point in time, please excuse me if I feel the credibility of the administration is strained when they say that they are "doing all that they can do". Maybe Obama just hates white folks. | ||
| Buellkowski |
Any way we can find out who made the 21 offers of aid and what they entailed? Just curious... | ||
| Toronto_s3 |
Strokizator. You got it all wrong man. I don't hate the states, as a matter of fact most of my business comes from the U.S. What I don't like is a weak U.S. economy or a weak U.S. dollar. I don't like it when I have clients who cancel jobs on me because they need a bloody passport to get into Canada. I don't like it when I have clients call me on the phone to cancel or delay a job because their son, or cousin or nephew got killed in Iraq or worse yet, killed themself while on duty over there. I don't like it when I have a client get committed to a mental institution because they can't deal with the fact their son died in Iraq over false intelligence. Too many U.S. enlisted have died in Iraq and Afghanistan and too much money has been waisted on the effort to justify whatever bullshit fake intelligence George Bush and Co. created for that endeavor. On top of that, it slays me the hypocrisy shown on this board by some who want to impeach Obama but are content to let Bush walk off into the sunset. Or Clinton for that matter. It's like there is no objectivity. You guys either choose one side to support or the other. There's no common sense to any of it. As a Canadian I don't really care which party is in office in the U.S. so long as the U.S. economy is going in the right direction. The more happy, healthy Americans there are, the better it is for my business. I've been watching from the outside as clients have lost their homes and business' as the U.S. economy has fallen into the toilet. I've got a client who has M.S. and pays $20 000.00 a year for health insurance with a 5k deductable. What the hell is up with that?? Is that fair? Hell, in the U.S. that's just business. The whole thing is so stupidly depressing. I'm thinking about calling it quits and selling out. | ||
| Aesquire |
Brumbear, If we have to seize the assets of BP to pay for their problem, we will, legally, and after the investigations. No doubt about that. Calling for heads to roll at this point, is premature and looks like a distraction from other issues to me. Heads will roll, have no fear. This regime is already tossing people under the bus to CYA. I find that a bit annoying. How about you? No doubt that the P.R. machine of BP is in full swing, but dang golly the CEO has a knack for torquing people off, doesn't he? My first thought when he said he "wanted his life back" or some such inanity was "Well, resign a&&ho##" What a maroon. | ||
| Aesquire |
Toronto s3, just do me a favor and skip the Bush crap. Wrong thread for the Jihadi War. As far as the economy goes, I agree. I think we have different views on the causes, but some I'm sure we can agree on. The last admin. spent too much & borrowed too much. No doubt. Total agreement. Matter of record. This admin. is spending lots more too much, and lots more too much debt. right? So they are doing it wrong. why? Ideological reasons? A desire to diminish America and make it Belgium? Raw greed? Incompetence? What do you think? I notice that the stock market crashed right after the candidate that promised to soak the rich and control the stock market got nominated. The smart players moved the money. This year everyone is taking money out of the system to avoid the big tax increase next year, so the money guys are anticipating next year will be worse. Clinton's Impeachment? If you were going to pick a crime to bust him on, ( that he's guilty of ) lying about having an affair has to be at the bottom of your list. These Bozo's in Washington really are too (*&()&%^ stupid and mean for TV sitcoms. It's like a bad Soap Opera, only it's real, and everyone has to pay for these jerks actions. Sigh. Oh! Am I the only one who finds it sad & funny that the N. Koreans aren't allowed to go see their team play so their Great Leader hired Chinese actors to play N. Korean Fans? (Message edited by aesquire on June 17, 2010) | ||
| Toronto_s3 |
Aesquire. You are going to have to explain to me how a Republican gov't would be spending any less than the present Democratic one as far as the current economic crisis goes. As for the oil spill I really don't see how McCain would have dealt with things any differently. BP said there were only 5000 barrels a day coming out and that they would have it under control. They were given the benefit of the doubt as they should have been. A Republican would have done the same thing in the same situation with the same information. As far as favours over the Bush crap. Forget it. Rumsfield should be in jail. Cheney should have faced charges also. Granted, it would be hard to charge Bush and make anything stick. If only there was a crime in the U.S. for gross stupidity. | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
If there are actionable charges, bring the court case. Most of what you hear and see is empty rhetoric. Were there ANYTHING to charge Rumsfeld or Cheney with, they would have done it already. Odd that such a wrong headed foreign policy in Iraq and Afghanistan is being continued without ANY measurable change from the previous administration. The only difference is that we don't hear MSN blowhards carping about it every single night. When was the last time you saw a single correspondent reporting from Iraq or Afghanistan? Coincidence? | ||
| Aesquire |
Ft, If anything the dithering is worse than the Bush years. "with us or against us" has been replaced by "reset button" and a total lack of faith that the U.S. will honor commitments from admin to admin. Why should the prez of Afghanistan ( like him or not, legit or not ) cooperate with the U.S. and not cut deals with the Talib when the "new Prez." gives him crap, ( about his drug dealer brother, or how many votes got stolen....) announces he's leaving, then never follows up on his promises to you and the world and whose rhetoric led directly to a massive increase in violence in your country? If we screw our allies, why should they not reach agreement with their enemies? Not like we're helping. Toronto s3 will always believe the propaganda, and pay no attention to the evidence if it doesn't meet his point it seems. I wonder how he felt about Clinton bombing Iraq to stop WMD's? I have no Idea how much McCain would be spending. He's not really a Rep. though. He was chosen by the press to be the loser candidate. He lost, not by as much as they liked, but lost. I see no way he could have jacked the debt up this much.... but maybeeee. ( I'm pretty sure a random mayor from a town in Nebraska could have done a better job than McCain. I think a random sport mascot could do better than Obama ) Hilary would have been better. That's like saying I prefer Ho Chi Min to Pol Pot, but damn. | ||
| Toronto_s3 |
Aesquire. Clinton bombing Iraq was fine in my opinion. I only wish Bush had continued the same course. If there was a perceived threat bomb it, remove it and then bomb it again if need be. What drives me nuts is the decision to put boots on the ground and risk American lives. The cheapest solution with the fewest lives put at risk is what I endorse. As far as believing propaganda if you are to be completely objective you have to admit that comment goes both ways. | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
What needed to be done in Iraq couldn't be done from the air. We are really good at creating the "highway of death" from the air, but unless you want to see pictures of children running down the road with half their skin burned off, a scalpel is needed rather than a sledge hammer.  Although the loss of ANY soldier in combat is a cost not to be taken lightly, the losses have been comparatively light. By this point in Vietnam, we would have racked up 58,000 dead. | ||
| Sifo |
Odd that such a wrong headed foreign policy in Iraq and Afghanistan is being continued without ANY measurable change from the previous administration. This is true despite campaigning to do just the opposite. Didn't he promise to start pulling troops from Iraq in 90 days or something of that sort. I know it was way shorter than 1 1/2 years and still no sign of him doing this. Personally I think it's a good thing that BO has failed to keep this promise. I don't understand how anyone who really believed the Iraq war was wrong and voted for BO believing that his campaign promises were a good idea, can possibly not be upset with his complete lack of follow through. This has been par for the course though. I find the BP escrow thing kind of odd. Forcing them to pay this upfront may have some very bad unintended consequences. It will put all of this on the books as debt right away instead of amortizing it over many years. This while their stock has taken a huge hit, and continuing threat of poor global economy, may be just what will push them to file bankruptcy. This could effectively get them off the hook for anything beyond what has been escrowed. Beyond that it was handled in the fashion of a bully, not a diplomat. BO should have met with BP much earlier and had something like this been worked out then made public he would have come off looking like a leader that could negotiate with adversaries. This made him look like a community organizer that tries to blackmail a company with bad PR until they pay you to back off. The congressional hearings were an absolute joke. It was about 1 rope short of being a lynching. I am little bit surprised they didn't actually ask the "when did you stop beating your wife" question. |
