| Author | Message | ||
     Sphere79 |
Jim - I wouldn't go comparing Apple to Buell support-wise. I know there are many great dealers out there but both near me have never been great experiences. I'd take my Buell to the local independent shop if I needed anything serious done to it now more than ever. I know the people who made them loved them - but a fair amount of those who supported them after the sale didn't and still don't, imo. Nothing against the great HD/Buell dealers out there, I just don't have any near me. | ||
| Indybuell |
Sphere, another good point. Perhaps Buell could have learned a lesson from Apple. Control your own distribution. | ||
| Sphere79 |
Agreed but part of Mac's growth has been them finally being allowed into more retail spaces and out from under Apple's thumb a bit. I think it's also why prices have come down slightly. I guess the Buell equivalent would be them moving from HD (Apple stores) to having them sold next to Japanese and European counterparts (Best Buy). I still liken Buell more to Linux (but I'm biased) in some ways. Especially in that it kicks ass but not enough people know about it. That analogy kind of works, given that they were sold in the Apple store so to speak but were shunned and hidden in the back. | ||
| Steve_mackay |
If my Buell were like Apple... 1.) It would only use Buell parts, purchased from a Buell dealer.(Aka the proprietary nature of Apple's hardware) 2.) It would only run on Gasoline that Buell authorized it to use(AKA the Iphone) 3.) They'd be using engines from Yamaha, Suzuki, etc... And package them in a real 'purdy bike, and charge 30-50% more. 4.) Working on the thing would be a COMPLETE NIGHTMARE!(ever try to swap out the hard drive in an iMac?) 5.) Getting it fixed at the Buell "Genius Bar" would be just like going to most HD boutiques  6.) Form over function(Hey, just like HD!). So No, I'm glad Buell isn't, and wasn't like Apple. But hey, if it was, it sure would ship in a fancy packing crate! Harley and Apple have FAR more in common that Buell and Apple do. | ||
| Froggy |
Sphere79, thank you, you took the words out of my mouth and said them better than I could.
Funny you say that, I work at a college and am responsible for maintaining 1700 Dell desktop machines, plus a handful of Dell laptops and a few other various pieces of hardware. Currently, we have 2 desktops down (one older model with dead hard drive, and one brand new one with a bad dvd drive). 1 laptop down, as it is in for a routine service, and 1 Dell printer that wont print duplex without jamming. Out of the 1700 setups, that means .23% of my hardware is down. The rest of the open service tickets are various relocation projects, software issues, and network issues. My advice: Get your IT team's act together. Dell occasionally has some QC issues, such as common failures like power supplies in the Optiplex GX620 desktops, and motherboards in the GX270's. Dell has always stood behind their products and on average a machine is down less than 48 hours from the time helpdesk gets the call to the time the user is back in business. | ||
| Wbrisett |
Froggy: Our local IT person use to work for Dell, he is actually a contractor (we farm out our IT stuff). We're not alone, our high failure rate. Our other sites (around the US) see similar issues apparently. We don't use any desktops, all of our computers are laptops, which may explain it. In fact, there was an article recently in one of the business sections that pointed out that nearly all laptop vendors in the $600 and under price point were having issues with QC. Dell was mentioned by name, but honestly from the article it sounded like it could be applied to any vendor. Much like motorcycles, I'm in the 'if you like it, buy it', I'll get what I want and not care a whole lot what others think. Pretty much sums up my feelings on the computer topic. People use what they do to get stuff done, there are choices, which is always good. Wayne | ||
| Blake |
$600 and under laptops have no business being used for a serious business on a daily basis. The Dell Latitude line is or was the one for serious business use. Not sure if they changed or not. The one time I've talked to Dell customer support, they were excellent and took care of me perfectly. The time I tried to talk to Apple customer support, I was told I had to pay money. | ||
| Bikertrash05 |
I am a PC. I've had Dells in the past, never really happy, but nice price and I was apprehensive to build my own. Well, I recently did build my own, and finally went from XP to Win7, and I love it, just a few things different to figure out. I use a Mac at school, it's ok, but I don't like the mouse or keyboard, and every now and then it just slows way down. | ||
| Doon |
I have 70+ dell servers, and they work very well (especially for the price). The Dell laptops that we give to the sales guys are holding up surprising well (Considering what the sales guys do to them). Engineering/tech staff all have Macbook Pros, and they've been very reliable. | ||
| Brinnutz |
And Bikertrash post pic's of his desk with guns on it. | ||
| Alii1959 |
I maybe the lone dissenter here but, Apple rocks. I used to be a Thinkpad buy until IBM no longer put themselves behind the product. Couldn't be happier. I too use Linux which I love, but Apple customer service is amazing. And, it is the "after-sale" that is so important. Started out with a MacBook Pro for daughter 4 years ago....now I have a MacBook, my wife has a MacBook, we have an Airport Extreme base station, and constantly dream of more Apple products. As much as people fuss about Apple's proprietary nature, their use of "common" components, and price the lack of hassle, no downtime, and outstanding service more than outweigh the cost savings of a cheaper laptop. I like things that don't break! I like things that can take a good deal of abuse. There is a reason Apple is the only brand that people have tattooed. Even though I am not much of a Harley guy, you have to admire the loyalty their owners feel.....I fear that I am becoming a fanboy. | ||
| Froggy |
Fear indeed...  | ||
| Bikertrash05 |
Brinnutz, I just love some of the reactions.   I just have to decide what to include next time!  | ||
| Nobuell |
We have been using Mac laptops in my company division for 15 years. We rarely have problems. We never get viruses. Things just work. The rest of the company is PC based. They tend to keep our IT person very busy. I've heard the PC vrs Mac argument for years, but for my money we are dollars ahead using macs. We are an engineering company and most of our new people were PC people. After a few months using the macs, many buy their own for home. Our people love the Mac portables. What Mac does very well is make computers that are easy to use, keep working, have few issues and make work simpler. Isn't that what a computer is supposed to do? Apple support is first rate. I inadvertently damaged a USB plug in on my Macbook Pro. I took it to the local Mac store and they replaced the board, under warranty within 3 hours. They are among the best companies regarding service and customer support. | ||
| Dentguy |
Nice Froggy. Looks like an apple, but for some odd reason reminds me of a small banana. | ||
| Firebolt020283 |
i currently own 3 computers. the first one is my 3 year old black macbook the second is a brand new 27" imac with the quadcore i5 processor and this little hp mini 110 netbook i bought for my deployment. I love the macs and would not give them up for any thing. This hp mini sucked butt with when it had windows 7 as its main operating system now i have it dual booting to linux mint which is a derivative of ubuntu and i must say it is a much better computer. The only thing i use windows for on this thing is for itunes for my iphone. I am forced to use windows at work and i think it is absolutely annoying the specs for my work computer is much better than my little net book and you would swear it was a 6 year old computer the way it acts. | ||
| Firebolt020283 |
Alii1959 I feel like you I used to could care less about apple but once I bought one I feel other computers are not as good. Customer support is excellent. My wife was having issues with (go figure a MS software) ms office on the new imac we just got and so she called them up and they was able to walk her threw how to fix the problem. My wife is not very computer literate by an means by the way. Besides that Apple products have a nice fit and finish compared to most other computer companies out there. | ||
| Gentleman_jon |
Good point Bolt. I freely admit to being an apple fan boy, and I know that the pc pros on the board can set up their pc's to work as well as a mac. But, and that is a big but, most people have not spent their life on a pc, and do not build or really understand much about their own computers. For them, doing everyday things on their mac, synching their iphone, sending photos are just a whole lot simpler. Upating Windows on a PC may be a piece of cake for Froggy, but most civilians have a lot of problems with it. Not so with the Mac. On the other hand, if you want to build a high power workstation, a Mac is no real big handicap either. I run a Mac Pro desktop with 17 gigs of ram, one start drive, and three 1 terra drives in a partitioned Raid 0 array, (one of which is a 100 gig scratch disc for Photoshop), running two Sony Artisan monitors on a Geforce 8800GT card. The hardware installs took about five minutes, everything worked right out of the box. Of course I used third party raid software and backup software to my two outboard hard drives, one of which is always kept off site. Jes sayin, PC's are great for guys that really understand them. For the rest of us, mac simplicity and support may make more sense. In other words, different strokes for different folks, as we used to say.  I knew I was cruising for a bruising when I compared Buell to apple, but what I mean was they are both unique and often visionary products that are essentially the vision of one very creative person. Not to say they might not have rather different personalities: they certainly do. (Message edited by gentleman_jon on January 10, 2010) | ||
| Firebolt020283 |
Even if mac was not an option I would go with linux over widows. On this little computer I am using right now it dual boots to linux and windows and the linux distro is much faster than than windows 7 ever wished to be. Every one raves over how great windows 7 is yet to me it is still slow and bloated like all of the other windows versions. | ||
| Froggy |
It can't be any easier on a PC. It does it itself in the background by default. It will download and then when you click shutdown it will install the updates then. 0 user interaction.
Win7 isn't bloated, but it does require more power than DOS for christ sake. It runs fine on my 6 year old laptop.
At my job, we were looking into macs, and got a pair of imacs as test beds. After loading antivirus and all the same type of software we use on the Windows machines for remote management and other required programs, the Macs ran the same slowness as the PC's. We ended up dropping the project because we couldn't get the macs to work the way we need to and most of our software wasn't compatible. | ||
| Doon |
froggy from what I have seen most Mac Anti-virus programs are worse then getting a virus. As so far there hasn't been much need for them. there hasn't been much work in making them not suck | ||
| Froggy |
I agree, but corporate policy is all machines must have This, That, and the other Thing. Similar to retarded noise laws that put the solenoid in the airbox of the 1125R. I can argue similar about the windows machines, they run so much faster without the crapware we have to load on them because we got some $5 million dollar contract with company XYZ for some stupid never used printscreen utility. What really pisses me off is that FireFox and iTunes got forced onto the machines, and the dozen iTunes services slowed things down and half the web programs wont work in FF. | ||
| Indybuell |
ClamAV works pretty well on Mac. | ||
| Seanp |
So how many of the folks claiming that PCs are better than Macs have actually spent more than a few minutes using a Mac? And how many of the folks claiming Macs are better have used PCs? I work on PCs professionally, but when it comes time to spend my own money, I buy Mac. How many folks who work with Macs professionally spend their own money on PCs? | ||
| Wavex |
lol the good old MAC vs PC debate... It's simple: - ppl who don't understand how things work and don't want to bother with learning get a MAC (which is just a glorified PC with a MAC OS anyway). It's stable and doesn't let you do anything other than to press on the beautiful buttons on the screen in front of you. It looks good, toddlers can understand the simple and beautiful interface, and it makes the n00bs feel like they know what they're doing. - ppl who are willing to learn what's going on and like to mess around with their computer will usually get a PC. A MAC isn't faster than a PC with the same hardware, it's just that n00bs are VERY good as messing their PC up and then complain that PCs suck... MAC was smart in that they simply locked everything down so a n00b user couldn't do anything that may mess something up... IMO, MACs and PCs are fundamentally the same thing these days... MAC just nailed the interface which works for most ppl (n00bs). Let's see Google's new OS now... should be here soon... | ||
| Seanp |
Wavex - I know what's going on with my computer, but when it comes down to using a laptop at home, I don't want to have to hack the registry, clean dll's, and do all the other crap that I have to do with my work computer. I just want it to work, and my Macs do just that - they work. And if push comes to shove, all I need to do is open a Terminal window, and I can get into the guts of the thing. But unlike the Windows machines at work, I'm not forced to monkey with it all the time. How much experience do you have on a Mac? | ||
| Skntpig |
woot.com $219 for a little laptop | ||
| Mountainstorm |
I've built quite a few enthusiast level custom PCs over the past 6 years for clients and I think the main reason I prefer PC over Mac is that you can tinker and upgrade and customize without taking it up the ass. Apple basically wants to give you some jail-house love in exchange for the "prestige" and pretty package. But they still have not built a machine that is even 1/2 as fast as my slowest PC. (Message edited by mountainstorm on January 11, 2010) | ||
| Nik |
wavex: except that the MacOS comes with a programming suite, SDK, and a BSD Unix shell; so that people who know what there computer is really doing, on a byte by byte instruction basis, tend to go with Macs. They've all but replaced SPARC workstations. And that's the great thing about the OS. It provides an easy and attractive interface for the less skilled users, but also easy access to the core for the advanced stuff. PCs are great for those average in the middle folks though. | ||
| Seanp |
How much experience do you have on a Mac, Mountainstorm? |
