| Author |
Message |
    
Indybuell
| | Posted on Monday, January 11, 2010 - 07:44 pm: | 
|
Mountainstorm: you obviously know nothing about Macs. My Macbook Pro would whip any comers. |
Wavex
| | Posted on Monday, January 11, 2010 - 08:09 pm: |
|
Seanp: not too much experience, but just enough to know 
Again, if you have to "hack the registry, clean dll's, and do all the other crap that you have to do with your work computer", it means you messed up your MS OS in the first place.
If you knew how to use it properly, you would never have to touch your registry or clean dlls... what dlls do you have to clean anyway? What dll slows down your system (makes no sense)? Do you know what dlls are? If you have dlls that need cleaning its because you put them there!
Nik: again, PC and MAC machines are more or less identical these days in terms of hardware... so in terms of the software, you can basically run anything on either machine, since MAC dropped the IBM processors and everything else they were doing themselves... so what we're really comparing here is the OS, and that just comes down to preference... I personally can't stand the MAC OS, but my n00b wife seems to enjoy it
Just like the IPOD, I think it's an awesome piece of hardware, with the best interface of any MP3 player ever, but I HATE the fact that you can't use the thing without itunes... I want my MP3 player to act like a USB drive (pretty much like every other mp3 player you can buy), so you can drag and drop MP3 folders to it directly... but no, MAC had to lock it down and do it differently... just doesn't work for me.
(Message edited by wavex on January 11, 2010) |
Seanp
| | Posted on Monday, January 11, 2010 - 08:35 pm: |
|
"just enough to know" - sounds like someone who badmouths Buells because they sat on one at the dealership once.
Here's the deal - I've dealt with Windows professionally for ten years, in some pretty harsh environments, and under absolute no-fail conditions. And Windows has failed me time and again. Luckily, there are a lot of people out there who have been victims of various Windows problems, so you can find an answer to almost any question on the Internet.
So you've never uninstalled a program that removed a dll that a different program still needed? Then apparently you haven't uninstalled much. That's what I mean by "cleaning dlls". Poor wording on my part but someone with a lot of Windows experience would know about dll problems.
But hey, what do I know - apparently I'm just a n00b.  |
Froggy
| | Posted on Monday, January 11, 2010 - 08:54 pm: |
|
DLL-Hell went away with Vista |
Mountainstorm
| | Posted on Monday, January 11, 2010 - 08:54 pm: |
|
I have no Mac experience. I'm a PC and I ride a Buell. 
But I built my first PC back when the IMSAI 8080 came out and I have written phonebooks of code in the 70's on IBM 1090 machines
SO I gues I am just a n00b too since I don't like the Mac OS or BS.
And I looked at the top dollar Mac rigs and since I don't like getting ripped off I built my own modest rig.
2 x X5470 Xeon (Quad Core) OCed to 4.1`ghz load stable for 24/7 use at 100%
D5400XS (Skulltrail) Mainboard
8GB DDR2 800 FB-DIMM ECC
Areca 1210 SATA Controller
4 x 750GB Samsung F1 in RAID5 (Archive)
2 X 1TB Samsung F1 in RAID0 (OS)
2 x ATI HD3870X2 (4 cores of GPU goodness)
Creative X-Fi with Console
So I can work or play. With 8 4ghz cores on tap there's not much it can't handle. And it's liquid cooled so it's quiet and reliable.
But the X58 i7 rig I built for my son (with but a single socket) is nearly as fast.
When it comes to HW Apple is not fast...not even close. And if I was all sticky for Mac I'd just install the soft and pretend 
(Message edited by mountainstorm on January 11, 2010) |
Wavex
| | Posted on Monday, January 11, 2010 - 09:20 pm: |
|
Seanp:
"just enough to know" - sounds like someone who badmouths Buells because they sat on one at the dealership once.
I'll give you that one
Here's the deal - I've dealt with Windows professionally for ten years, in some pretty harsh environments, and under absolute no-fail conditions. And Windows has failed me time and again. Luckily, there are a lot of people out there who have been victims of various Windows problems, so you can find an answer to almost any question on the Internet.
Windows has definitely not been perfect (and still isn't), but why did wait 10 years to switch? Because the alternatives were less than perfect themselves at the time?
Today's MAC and WIN OS_s are imo comparable in terms of stability if used properly (my MS PCs run 24/7 and very smoothly all year long, and I quickly see wht happened when someone asks me to help fix their MS PCs....... user error/stupidity accounts for 99% of the problems in my experience).
So you've never uninstalled a program that removed a dll that a different program still needed? Then apparently you haven't uninstalled much. That's what I mean by "cleaning dlls". Poor wording on my part but someone with a lot of Windows experience would know about dll problems.
Not in a VERY long time no. But I'll admit that my PCs are tidy and I know what programs I need and install... so I don't uninstall programs everyday either
For the record, I am not saying that ALL MAC users are n00bs or that you need to be a n00b to use MAC. Not at all. You can be an expert and use MAC... sure.
I am saying that most ppl are n00bs and thus are better off with MAC (I recommend all the ppl that ask me for help fixing their MS/PCs to buy MACs...)
|
Seanp
| | Posted on Monday, January 11, 2010 - 09:50 pm: |
|
I switched to Mac in 2004, after working with PCs for four or five years. I had seven PCs - a media server, a file server for backups, two laptops, a gaming desktop, a linux box, and a work desktop. I replaced one laptop with a 12" Powerbook. A year later I added a 17" Powerbook and ditched the work desktop. A short time later I ditched all the PCs and replaced them with a MacBook Air, another Macbook, a Mac Pro, and an Apple TV.
The only reason it took me so long to switch was that I thought Macs were useless. My neighbor had an old Macintosh Plus, and about the only thing it was good for was playing Harpoon. So I was basically in the dark as far as Macs go. I was one of those people that said "Macs are toys, and Windows machines are for power users!" I upgraded my desktops all the time, buying new graphics cards, more RAM, new HDDs, network cards, etc. I got a great deal on the 12" Powerbook, so I went for it, just as something to play around with. I never turned back.
I've used Windows 7 for about five months now, and I'll admit it is a nice OS. I have it running in a virtual machine on my Mac Pro, (along with a VM copy of my laptop from work, and a VM of XP). It's stable, and looks, well, like Vista+. But the UI on the Mac is intuitive in a way that the Windows UI has never been. It's all the small things that add up to make my Mac (in my opinion) so much better than the Windows machines I use outside of my home.
I'm not trying to compare Apple to Buell, but the attitude of many Windows users to Mac users is similar to that of many Japanese I4 riders to Buell riders - they have a baseless, preconceived notion about the Mac (Buell) and think it's worthless. But once you ride one for a while, you start to understand... |
Ponti1
| | Posted on Monday, January 11, 2010 - 10:26 pm: |
|
I think Bill Gates has tons of sex appeal...
Does that count at all? |
D_adams
| | Posted on Monday, January 11, 2010 - 10:42 pm: |
|
And this is just another reason to like linux.
Sex appeal? OmG, wtf are u thinking? |
Bikertrash05
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 12, 2010 - 01:53 am: |
|
or
Spent less, get a lot more, and I got the satisfaction of building it myself. My 24" monitor should be here next week. 
i7 920 processor
EVGA X58 SLI LE motherboard
Crucial Tracer 3x2g ram
Cooler Master V8 cooler and 932 HAF case
Sapphire 5770 graphics card
Corsair 750TX power supply
2xWD 1T hard drives
Windows 7 64bit Home
Klipsch 2.1 ProMedia speakers
Logitech illuminated keyboard and MX518 mouse |
Ponti1
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 12, 2010 - 08:39 am: |
|
And this is just another reason to like linux.
Sex appeal? OmG, wtf are u thinking?
Poor attempt at humor I suppose. Oh well, they can't all be winners. Should have added this maybe:
 |
Mountainstorm
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 12, 2010 - 09:07 am: |
|
Nice set up BT05
When it comes down to it 99% of the time I am using 1% of my rig's capacity (browsing the net). No time for gaming. So an Airbook would work fine for me. I am not opposed to Apple products...I just don't like paying for a label.
My version of the Airbook is sitting on the couch with my Logitech diNovo Edge wireless keyboard. The 52" Samsung LCD and the lil HTPC I built for the family does the rest. The diNovo is thin and lovely and I can pretend I'm a Mac...with my PC |
Wavex
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 12, 2010 - 02:50 pm: |
|
I have a DiNovo as well and love it (only keyboard that can reliably function 30 feet from the computer)... my computer is in one room and hooked up to the 52" flat screen in the living room (full HDMI wall connection), and between the diNovo and my HarmonyOne universal remote I have my entire multimedia center (Fiber optics TV/internet, PC -for games + pictures + movies + internet browsing-, Xbox, Wii, and blueray) all ready to pop up on the big screen at a touch of a button... Love it |
Blake
| | Posted on Thursday, January 14, 2010 - 06:23 am: |
|
"What Mac does very well is make computers that are easy to use, keep working, have few issues and make work simpler. Isn't that what a computer is supposed to do?"
I have the exact opposite experience. Like I said, I still get nausea just thinking about it.
"Apple support is first rate."
Not in my experience.
"I inadvertently damaged a USB plug in on my Macbook Pro. I took it to the local Mac store and they replaced the board, under warranty within 3 hours. They are among the best companies regarding service and customer support."
That is what you call "first rate" service? The Dell folks come to you. Seems much superior to me. The nearest Mac store is over 30 miles from me. Fail. |
Steve_mackay
| | Posted on Thursday, January 14, 2010 - 09:02 am: |
|
Yup, Apple support is 1st rate...
http://gizmodo.com/5447250/the-faulty-imac-saga-ch apter-1 |
Drkside79
| | Posted on Thursday, January 14, 2010 - 09:15 am: |
|
I loved my Mac it served me well for years and i miss it very much now that it is gone. I got 6 solid years out of a laptop w/ no problems so i have no complaints. |
Seanp
| | Posted on Thursday, January 14, 2010 - 09:21 pm: |
|
Are we, on this board, really going to make snap judgments about a company / product / experience based on a website that lists a problem with said company / product? Need I mention that "My Buell is a lemon!" website that used to be one of the first Google hits for Buell a while back?
And Blake - what particular experience do you have with Apple? I guess you've been using Macs a long time and have plenty of personal customer service experience.
The Army uses and prefers Dells, and I do to, as far as Windows machines go. I've been working with/on Dells for years, and they're great computers. My MIL needs a new computer, and we're going to get her a Dell. That being said, you have to buy a special service package to actually get them to come to your house or place of business to fix a broken computer. It's relatively cheap, but is still not the default option.
But hey, why would I want a piece of equipment that doesn't have a dealer or service center less than 30 miles away and doesn't do house calls? Oh, wait, I DO own a piece of equipment with no dealer closer than 30 miles and no house service - it's called a Buell! And, much like my Macs, I love my Buell, and am able to overlook many of its flaws (crappy support, more expensive for what you actually get, small market share) because I love it.
I think some of you folks slamming a brand (Apple) without much personal experience need to take a look at how you treat other folks who slam a brand (Buell) with no personal experience. |
Nobuell
| | Posted on Thursday, January 14, 2010 - 09:55 pm: |
|
Blake,
We have been using MACs at my company for 15 years. We have had very few problems. The portables that we have just work even though they are packed up and moved almost every day. Most of our machines have been x-rayed in airports at least twice a week, are subjected to bad environments in fabrication and machine facilities. They just keep on working.
I hate to hear that the Apple store is 30 miles away. Thats a tough drive. Try getting a board replaced on any other computer in 3 hours to help me make a flight. I won't mention my wife's Dell portable (her work machine) that almost went up in flames on her desk.
I will rest well knowing that the computers in my company will be virus free, will work without issue, can plug in any peripheral and function immediately with no fiddling and that our people will be productive without interruptions.
I guess we picked the wrong computers. |
Steve_mackay
| | Posted on Thursday, January 14, 2010 - 10:16 pm: |
|
I currently own 3 Macs(1 iMac, 1 Mac Mini, and 1 PowerMac G4(Dead now)).
Last year I gave away my "Frankenmac". Which I bought a Gigabit Ethernet G4 board(refurb). Re-wired a standard ATX power supply, and re-drilled a standard ATX case to fit it.
Does that give me the right to slam them now?
My problem with Apple is they change just enough of the hardware(with the same components)to try to lock you in to buying replacement parts from them. And yes... They do break, with the same frequency as standard PCs, in my experience anyways.
The reason I have the mac mini is because it was a work machine that the HD died after 13 months of use. It was easier to replace the G4 mini with a new core2duo mini. The PowerMac has gone through 3 power supplies since I bought it new in 2003. It would be different if I could get a replacement at my local best buy, or independent computer store for a reasonable price. But that's just not the case.
But my BIGGEST complain with Apple is the fanbois that have a SERIOUS superiority complex. Most that I've dealt with tell me how reliable Macs are. One even told me that he's VERY satisfied with his iMac's reliability. Even though it's been out of his hand for nearly a month in it's 18 months service(both times getting a logic board replacements). I'm sorry, but I'd not call that RELIABLE.
I like Macs, I really do. Or I wouldn't own 3 of them. But don't give me the superior reliability line.
Seriously, "cleaning DLLs". Come on... I install & uninstall a LOT of software. And I've never had to "clean DLLs". I run CCleaner(a free piece of software) a couple of times a year while doing some preventative maintenance. If that's what you mean, I'd not say that's as big of an issue you seem to make it out to be.
Ever have problems with any plists? I had a problem where every time I right clicked on a ZIP file, the OS would kernel panik. Know what Apple's "superior" advice was? Archive and re-install the OS. Just like windows support monkeys tell ya.... Reinstall!
I found a solution to the problem online. It had to do with a corrupt Plist related to an old stuffit expander. And here I was always told that OSX was rock solid, un-crashable
The fact of the matter is, OSX and Windows are pretty much neck and neck for the desktop in the form of reliability and robustness these days. You just WILL pay less for a Windows PC, if you're an informed consumer and know how to shop.
But, I still prefer to run an OSX or Linux server over Windows...
 |
Froggy
| | Posted on Thursday, January 14, 2010 - 10:50 pm: |
|
quote:I will rest well knowing that the computers in my company will be virus free, will work without issue, can plug in any peripheral and function immediately with no fiddling and that our people will be productive without interruptions.
Comments like that annoy the crap out of me, because they are only posted by people that don't know any better. My computers at home are virus free, have excellent reliability, are compatible with every device we connect including $5000 electric chalk boards (not mac compatible), and the best part is we don't have to worry about anything. Issues are few and far between and can be taken care of promptly. Our biggest issues are all network related. |
Gunut75
| | Posted on Friday, January 15, 2010 - 06:48 am: |
|
I cant believe this thread went this far! I picked up a desktop for $100! It works better than my computer at the shop, so I cant complain. Because I got it so cheap, Im also going to pick up a used Mac, just to try it out. I know it's learning a new language and all, but for the price its worth a try. This is typed early morning from the $100 geek box at home. It took me till 34 yrs old to get internet at home. ......maybe it was when I bought my Buell, and made the switch to EFI...........Thanks guys and gals. I got a ton of info from this, made a decision, and bought a computer. Now I have 2 towers, and another one on the way............Thanks!   |
Seanp
| | Posted on Friday, January 15, 2010 - 07:09 am: |
|
Steve - if you look a few posts back, you'll see that I used poor wording when I said "clean" dll's. I should have said "fix" or "replace" dll's. And I don't claim that Macs are overall more reliable than PCs. But I will say that my own personal experience has been very good - I have had 9 or 10 Apple products in the last six years, and have only had an issue with one - a 17" Powerbook that had a screen issue. It was about four years old and out of warranty, so I just hooked it up to a cheap monitor and used it as a desktop. But my own personal experience, just like anyone's, is based on a pretty small slice of the Apple user base.
I can count the plist problems I've had on one hand, and I've had OSX in it's past few iterations (Panther, Tiger, Leopard) crash maybe ten times in six years.
Here's a personal example of why I like Mac more than Windows. I have had a few Apple laptops over the years. I most recently bought a MacBook Air in February 2008. I used that laptop for grad school, and I only ever turned it off to reboot for system updates. I typed on it at home, closed the lid, threw it in my bag and brought it to school to take notes. I could always count on being able to open the lid and have it ready to go in a few seconds. I have had many, many Army-owned Dell laptops over the years. I have never had one that hibernated / woke reliably. Heck, the one I have now is in a dock, and when I take it home and use it as a laptop, and then bring it back to work and put it in the dock, it never works right. I end up having to use the keyboard on the laptop to run it through and reboot it, just so it will recognize both monitors and the USB keyboard/mouse. That's just one example of why I prefer my Macs. I don't hate Windows, I just prefer Macs.
But again, to each his own. As long as your opinion is based on experience, and not just some knee-jerk "Macs suck!" or "Windows sucks!" without ever spending more than a few minutes playing with one or the other in a store, that's fine. The only ones who I hate are the guys who make blanket statements about a piece of equipment they have no experience with.
Like I said earlier, it's akin to a Honzukisakiha rider talking about how Buells suck without ever riding one. |
Nobuell
| | Posted on Friday, January 15, 2010 - 07:34 am: |
|
Froggy
My companies division is all MACs as previously stated. The other half of the company is PC based. In all we have approximately 150 computers. We have two IT people that never spend any time on the MAC side. They stay very busy on the PC side. It is very easy to talk about how well the PCs work when a good computer person take care of his machine. Having a large number of people using computers are a different story.
"because they are only posted by people that don't know any better"
I take offense to that because I have been running a +20 Million dollar a year business for 15 years. Our people use their computers very heavily daily. Not just emails but large data bases, scientific programs, cad programs and structural software. If the computers are down my people cannot do their job. I see how the PC side of the corporation functions.
Productivity is where the money is made. |
Steve_mackay
| | Posted on Friday, January 15, 2010 - 08:28 am: |
|
13 years as the "IT" guy here. A small tool&die/machine shop.
I can count the number of problems on one hand that have happened in those 13 years. I've seen exactly ONE virus here. That was approximately 8 years ago. I finally retired an Acer computer we bought back in 1997. It was running as a file sever/DNC server for the CNC machines. The CPU fan quit working. I've had one problem with the workstations I've built over those 13 years. And that was a failing WD hard drive. I hear all these IT "nightmares". But quite frankly, if I spend 4-5 hours a YEAR on IT duties, I'd be surprised. The biggest time is spent when we're slow taking the boxes out to the shop and blowing the crap out of 'em.
Ya know the biggest problem we have? Floppy drives on the CNC machines.
Nobuell, If you're having the kind of problems your describing, I'd find a new IT staff. |
Froggy
| | Posted on Friday, January 15, 2010 - 09:35 am: |
|
NoBuell, if statistically speaking there is a difference in the reliability and usability between Macs and PC's in your environment, your IT department is failing to do its job. Remember, I am an IT worker at an educational institution, we have computers for EVERY use, including CAD machines and video editing machines, hell we even have machines that operate other machinery. Again, our biggest issue is sustaining 400+ simultaneous connections to Youtube.
These days Macs are pretty much Identical to PC's hardware, they have the same reliability. It all comes down to the software and how it is managed. Right out the box the Mac does have a slight advantage, but both types of machines need to be reconfigured to work correctly in a large network environment. |
|
