| Author | Message | ||
     Raceautobody |
I received this e-mail the other day, I hope this is not a re-post Al THE DEFINITION OF ACCELERATION!! One top fuel dragster 500 cubic inch Hemi engine makes more horsepower than the first 4 rows of stock cars at the Daytona 500. It takes just 15/100ths of a second for all 6,000+ horsepower of an NHRA Top Fuel dragster engine to reach the rear wheels. Under full throttle, a dragster engine consumes 1-1/2 gallons of nitro methane per second. A fully loaded 747 consumes jet fuel at the same rate but with 25% less energy being produced. A stock Dodge Hemi V8 engine cannot produce enough power to drive the dragster's supercharger. With 3,000 CFM of air being rammed in by the supercharger on overdrive, the fuel mixture is compressed into a near-solid form before ignition. Cylinders run on the verge of hydraulic lock at full throttle. At the stoichiometric (stoichiometry: methodology and technology by which quantities of reactants and products in chemical reactions are determined) 1.7:1 air/fuel mixture of nitro methane, the flame front temperature measures 7,050 deg F. Nitro methane burns yellow. The spectacular white flame seen above the stacks at night is raw burning hydrogen, dissociated from atmospheric water vapor by the searing heat of the exhaust gases. Dual magnetos supply 44 amps to each spark plug. This is the output of an arc welder in each cylinder. Spark plug electrodes are totally consumed during a pass. After halfway, the engine is dieseling from compression, plus the glow of exhaust valves at 1,400 deg F. The engine can only be shut down by cutting the fuel flow. If spark momentarily fails early in the run, unburned nitro immediately builds up in the affected cylinder and then explodes with sufficient force to blow cylinder heads off the block in pieces or split the block in half. In order to exceed 300 mph in 4. 5 seconds, dragsters must accelerate an average of over 4G's. In order to reach 200 mph (well before half-track), the launch acceleration approaches 8G's. Dragsters reach over 300 miles per hour before you have completed reading this one sentence. Top fuel engines turn approximately 540 revolutions from light to light! Including the burnout, the engine must only survive 900 revolutions under load. The redline is actually quite high at 9,500 rpm. Assuming all the equipment is paid off, the crew worked for free, and for once NOTHING BLOWS UP, each run costs an estimate $1,000.00 per second. The current top fuel dragster elapsed time record is 4.428 seconds for the quarter mile (11/12/06, Tony Schumacher, at Pomona , CA ). The top speed record is 336.15 mph as measured over the last 66' of the run (05/25/05 Tony Schumacher, at Hebron , OH ). Putting all of this into perspective: You are driving the average $140,000 Lingenfelter 'twin-turbo' powered Corvette Z06. Over a mile up the road, a top fuel dragster is staged and ready to launch down a quarter mile strip as you pass. You have the advantage of a flying start. You run the 'Vette hard up through the gears and blast across the starting line and pass the dragster at an honest 200 mph. The 'tree' goes green for both of you at that moment.. The dragster launches and starts after you. You keep your foot down hard, but you hear an incredibly brutal whine that sears your eardrums and within 3 seconds, the dragster catches and passes you. He beats you to the finish line, a quarter mile away from where you just passed him. Think about it, from a standing start, the dragster had spotted you 200 mph and not only caught, but nearly blasted you off the road when he passed you within a mere 1,320 foot long race course. ... and that my friend, is ACCELERATION! | ||
| Swordsman |
I think I just wet myself.  ~SM | ||
| Nevrenuf |
yea really. i've liked to consider the cyclone to being in a slingshot with the way it can get off the line. i can't imagine what it would be like in a dragster. | ||
| Froggy |
The space shuttle is sitting back its chair just laughing.  | ||
| Hootowl |
The shuttle only accelerates at a few G's, not 4, and certainly not 8. Russian rockets accelerate harder than the shuttle. | ||
| Americanmadexb |
And thats why i love NHRA! Now that they only race to 1,000ft instead of 1,320, some of those numbers above are little different. Still amazing. If you never been to one, you owe it to yourself to go once. I go to Norwalk, Chicago and spend the entire weekend at Indy every year. I can't get enough of it! | ||
| Nevrenuf |
went and saw the nhra races up in eureka ca one year and got some great pics of the cars that were being run. very sweet. been to the motorcycle drags a number of times over the years and really enjoy to watch em. | ||
| Fast1075 |
Fuel is awesome....Don Garlits originally quit racing because of detached retinas from the intense vibration of tire shake. Go watch Top Fuel bikes run...high 5 second passes on a good track at over 225mph. The imports are faster, but the big Harleys sound much much better... Or strap on a Pro Stock bike...high 6's at 190mph normally aspirated on gasoline!!! 60 foot times of under a second...and by the way...current NHRA ProStock bike points leader...Hector Arana...on a ....... BUELL!!!!! (Message edited by fast1075 on September 24, 2009) | ||
| Mr_grumpy |
I used to watch "Big Daddy" at Santa Pod back in the 70s/80s, & "Slammin" Sammy Miller with a funny car powered by a Lunar module maneuvering engine. I saw him do the 1st sub 4sec run in Europe there. Another fun guy to watch was a Dutchman called Henk Vink, he used to run Kawasaki 2 stroke multi engined drag bikes, what a noise! | ||
| Mr_grumpy |
Now that's acceleration (relatively speaking), sounds handsome though. More info here http://motocamp.blogspot.com/ | ||
| Roadcouch98 |
Other than seeing a Shuttle launch which I have yet to do, I cannot think of Anything that could put on such a Brutal display of Power as Top Fuel Rails or Funny Cars. I went to the Gatornationals 1993,1994,1995 and was in awe on every Run. | ||
| Roadcouch98 |
The first Day in Gainesville 1995 "Pontiac" Jack Ostrander snapped the frame rails on one side behind the cockpit, and I saw Him go through the Lights at 270 MPH sitting next to the Engine facing backwards. He did not touch the retaining walls and did not crash. Being that was one of the first passes I had ever seen, made it possibly the most memorable of all. | ||
| Blake |
"A fully loaded 747 consumes jet fuel at the same rate but with 25% less energy being produced." Maybe under cruise, but let's get real here for a minute. During takeoff and climb a 747-400 is putting out some 250,000 LBs of thrust, producing upwards of 100,000 HP worth of power, enough to allow a rate of climb of up to 4,000 FPM with a gross weight of 800,000 LBs. The 747's 250,000 LBs of thrust would accelerate a 2,500 LB top fuel dragster at a rate of 100 g's instantly killing the driver. That is what you call "thrust". | ||
| Fresnobuell |
The 747's 250,000 LBs of thrust would accelerate a 2,500 LB top fuel dragster at a rate of 100 g's instantly killing the driver. Yeah, but it would be one hell of a run! | ||
| Doughnut |
You are driving the average $140,000 Lingenfelter 'twin-turbo' powered Corvette Z06.  | ||
| Nik |
The 747's 250,000 LBs of thrust would accelerate a 2,500 LB top fuel dragster at a rate of 100 g's instantly killing the driver. That is what you call "thrust". But what if they were both on conveyor belts?  | ||
| Mr_grumpy |
Trouble with Blake's calculation is that the 747 engine alone weighs 4 tons & by the time it's spooled up to full power, the dragster driver is back home having his tea! By the same token, dragster engines wouldn't get a 747 halfway down the runway before grenading. | ||
| Birdy |
any of you Kids  Around like this old fart to see a Saturn V lift off in person. No, out of the gate it wasn't fast BUT it burned MORE fuel clearing the tower than everyone on the board together will EVER use! Even 5 MILES away it was like God himself was shaking you from the shear noise.  Makes the Shuttle looks like a bottle rocket. And a F18 on the Cat may have help BUT 0 to 1200! What a ride that has to be. (Message edited by Birdy on September 25, 2009) | ||
| Fast1075 |
I saw most of them...we would load up and head to Titusville whenever we could to see them go up....even the ones we watched from the front yard at our old house were awesome, especially the night shots...looked like a nuke had gone off...and you could hear the sound several minutes later (we were about 55 miles away). | ||
| Reepicheep |
I "watched" (was looking at data, not the motor, unfortunately) an engine go from 90,000 pounds of thrust to -25,000 pounds of thrust in about 30 milliseconds. Parts were spread out over more then a quarter mile... | ||
| Birdy |
Reepicheep, Did ya have to pick up all the parts to find out why it went BOOM !!!  | ||
| Bluzm2 |
My neighbor's father was an honest to goodness rocket scientist that worked on the Apollo missions. He was there for all of them including the Apollo 13 shot. In the movie where they call in the engineers to the conference room and throw out the problem and a pile of stuff they have to solve it, well, he was one of the guys in the room! He has neat stories. I would have loved to see a Saturn 5 launch.. those were the days.. Watching a Top Fuel launch is way cool too! Speaking of Top Fuel, can you imagine what this was like?  Field Set for Four Lane, Four-Wide Exhibition Sunday, September 20, 2009 Photo: LMS PR Upon the conclusion of the first round of qualifying from today's NHRA Carolinas Nationals, NHRA announced the fields for the four-lane, four-wide exhibition run. It will mark the first time in NHRA history, modern Top Fuel dragsters and Funny Cars will race four lanes, four wide, unleashing a powerful assault of 28,000 horsepower on spectacular zMAX Dragway. In Top Fuel, the field will include: Spencer Massey, driver of the U.S. Smokeless Tobacco dragster; Brandon Bernstein, driver of the Budweiser/Lucas Oil dragster; Antron Brown, driver of the Matco Tools dragster; and Morgan Lucas, driver of the Geico Powersports/Lucas Oil dragster. In Funny Car, the participants will include: Mike Neff, driver of the Ford Drive One Mustang; John Force, driver of the Castrol GTX High-Mileage Ford Mustang; Tim Wilkerson, driver of the Levi, Ray Shoup Ford Shelby Mustang; and Del Worsham, driver of the Alan Johnson/Al-Anabi Racing Toyota Solara. Lane choice will be awarded to the driver with the lowest e.t. from their first round performance. As a result, lane choice goes in the following order: Top Fuel: Massey, Bernstein, Brown, Lucas; Funny Car: Neff, Force, Wilkerson, Worsham. The historic exhibition will take place at the conclusion of the professional semi-final round at approximately 4:30-4:45 p.m. (ET). Wow! Brad | ||
| Brumbear |
Dudes These were bad mutha's http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nikXMg_g_Es  I don't know if you could ride one of these but man what a last ride it would be with a 50 megaton show on arrival | ||
| Birdy |
Drag Race? Drag Race?!?! How about a three way? Lets see, a Fast Bike...1 Supercar...and let toss in a jet fighter. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s7WfCLUBBQU | ||
| Reepicheep |
Actually, I kinda did have to pick up the parts. This was an R&D facility, so there was a lot of duck tape and bailing wire, and big computers doing a lot of things they didn't really have the capacity to do. The biggest machines we could get in those days is probably less then 1/16th the power of your current laptop. The tower mounted engine control system physically destroyed, so we weren't getting any log data off of that one. There was a second system, I forget why that one lost data (maybe it got hosed down when the fire got put out, or it wasn't acquiring data during the event). My system was the third and final place that data could be recovered from... and of course people were pretty interested in knowing what happend. The problem was, that when you blow up a big motor like that (100 yards away from you) you get pretty excited. Excited enough that you forget to stop the transient reading that was in progress when you dun blowed it up. These were unix based systems, and when you tell a unix system to do something, it's gonna by God do it. So it kept packing data into every last available byte of the hard drive until our system crashed. We should have handled "disk full" conditions, but but didn't (time, money, cpu margin). So there I sat, trying to move this massive file around and carve it into ussable pieces manually so it could be re-imported in our systems. Our VP was standing over my shoulder, asking if there was anything he could do to help. I was smarter back then than I am now, so I didn't tell him he could go get me some coffee. (I saved the file by the way, and I looked calm, but I was sweating bullets. One wrong command and I could have lost some pretty valuable data. Turned out to be an easy problem with the engine design to fix as well, the ship date didn't even slip) | ||
| Americanmadexb |
it's amazing to me as i sit here and watch qualifying right now at Dallas that goodyear can produce a tire that sticks to a track with 8,000 HP.. props to them | ||
| Fast1075 |
The 6,000 pounds of downforce the wings generate helps quite a bit....imagine the forces at work..the weight transfer, plus the downforce...and the tires still expand by 10 inches or so from centrifugal force. The clutch slips during most of the run...the black "smoke" you see is coming from the clutch can..sintered iron powder. NHRA has a tradition of keeping it (relatively)simple on the fuel cars buy using pneumatic timers for clutch control..setup is time/pressure based with no feedback...it is the skill and experience of the crew to try to hit the setup...too much clutch too soon and tires go up in smoke...not enough clutch and the car will "drive thru the clutch" the resulting loss of load will hydraulic the motor...and that fine line of enough is somewhere between too much wheel speed and tire shake... | ||
| Roadcouch98 |
Fast1075, I have to agree with You about the setups on these cars. Crew Chiefs, such as Austin Coil and Alan Johnson to name just two are Scientists when determining weather conditions, altitude of the track, clutch tuning, timing, timers, blower speeds etc. etc.... Just an Incredible Show. I don't even define it as a Sport. More to Me like Rocket Science than Cross Country Skiing and such. | ||
| Gregtonn |
Those big Goodyears also get some help from sources not mentioned yet. The traction compound sprayed on the track will peel your shoes off if they aren't tied tightly enough. Burning fuel from the header pipes results in about 500 pounds of thrust from each pipe. Now you know why they're shaped the way they are. There are some myths and semi-myths in the original post. Spark plug electrodes are totally consumed during a pass. Ignition timing is adjusted during parts of the run. Without functioning spark plugs this would not be possible. While all 16 spark plugs are replaced after every run the electrodes are not consumed during a normal run. If spark momentarily fails early in the run, unburned nitro immediately builds up in the affected cylinder and then explodes with sufficient force to blow cylinder heads off the block in pieces or split the block in half. Those sorts of explosions are rare and are usually the result of "crossfiring" between cylinders due to a broken intake valve or failed head gasket seal. Cylinders will often fail to light at the hit of the throttle then relight down track without incident. The white mist you see coming from the header pipes is raw unburned fuel. It is more common to see an intake valve leak causing a backfire and blowing the supercharger off the intake manifold. That's why you see the Kevlar straps holding down the supercharger. Top Fuel Dragsters and Top Fuel Funnycars were restricted to 1,000 ft runs last year. They still run over 300 mph and can do it in less than 4 seconds with half track speeds in excess of 270 mph. If you ever get a chance to be part of a nitro pit crew it is an experience you will never forget. G | ||
| Gregtonn |
But what if they were both on conveyor belts? +1 for the jet. No traction needed.  G |
