| Author | Message | ||
     Hughlysses |
Just found a link to this at sport-touring.net; another person with "inside info" that HD is getting ready to axe Buell: http://dalefranks.com/cycles/?p=995 Sounds like complete BS to me; I'm just passing it along. | ||
| Midknyte |
Is it that time of year again? | ||
| P_squared |
What's even funnier? The blogpost before that story. It really is interesting how often the Buell 1125R comes out on top in these comparison tests. http://dalefranks.com/cycles/?p=992 | ||
| Froggy |
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| Hughlysses |
It's like I said on the sport touring forum, I wouldn't be surprised in the slightest if some top HD execs are going to call for Buell to be axed. It's just that their sales are increasing in a period that HD sales are decreasing, Buell just won a national championship motorcycle series, and you've got a new CEO at HD with no background in HD "culture". I can imagine the new CEO might suggest these same HD execs should clean out their desks on Friday. | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
There may come a "poop or get off the pot" moment for Buell. I don't think that time is now, but it could be. That said, who might want to acquire Buell? Polaris? They lack a sportbike line-up and would love to have that option. A termination of Buell under HD would be the equivalent of eating your own children. HD needs the Baby Boomers to stay alive. Once they are gone, I fear that HD will have a hard time making up the shortfall without Buell. | ||
| Rfischer |
Au contraire....H-D is profitable with or without Buell. That said, so long as a business case can be made for Buell as a Harley unit, it stays. If not, well........... Never forget, H-D is the most profitable MC mfr. in the world for very good reasons. | ||
| F_skinner |
That said, who might want to acquire Buell? Buell Owners | ||
| Panhead_dan |
On the bright side, there has never been a better time for Buell to become "stand alone" again. The recent racing press, new models and advertizing exposure have more people talking about BMC more than ever before. Can you just imagine; Service you can count on, parts in stock, being able to try on Buell hats, T shirts, other clothing and riding gear? What about actually being able to meet other Buellers and to be able to speak with folks without getting that blank stare ? I think Buell is up to the task and I hope the axe falls soon. | ||
| Bill0351 |
A termination of Buell under HD would be the equivalent of eating your own children. HD needs the Baby Boomers to stay alive. Once they are gone, I fear that HD will have a hard time making up the shortfall without Buell. I agree completely. It seems crazy to be having this conversation at the same time we have a thread about the AMA Sportbike championship. It also seems like a really stupid time to get rid of Buell if you believe the brand is the key to the future of HD. On the other hand, if you were an exec who thinks of Buell as a distraction from their "real focus" then now might be the time to put Buell on the block for sale. I could honestly give a **** less who owns Buell as long as they continue representing the US in the sport bike market. | ||
| Dalefranks |
A termination of Buell under HD would be the equivalent of eating your own children. HD needs the Baby Boomers to stay alive. Once they are gone, I fear that HD will have a hard time making up the shortfall without Buell. I'm sorry, but that's simply insane. Harley-Davidson makes more than twice as much money selling general merchandise like jackets and coffee mugs than they do from selling Buell Motorcycles. In 2008, HD's annual report states that they sold $313.8m in general merch, making up 5.6% of corporate revenues. Buell Motorcycles, on the other hand, made $123.2m in revenues, or 2.2% of corporate revenues. According to the company 10k statement for 2008, Buell accounted for 4,000 of HD's 222,200 motorcycle registrations. Of the 686 HD dealerships in 2008, more than half of them don't even sell Buells. So, the idea that Buell motorcycles will make up for...well...anything at Harley Davidson is so at variance with the actual facts as to qualify as sheer fantasy. Let's not pretend that Buell has either the user base or financial performance to rank as a serious part of Harley Davidson. Moreover, you underestimate how deeply people at the MoCo--including people whose last names begin with "D"--intensely dislike Erik Buell. Harley may, in fact, keep Buell in the stable at the end of the day, but there is a concerted effort in Milwaukee to get rid of it, and if it fails, it won't be for lack of trying. | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
If you WERE going to sell Buell, the best time would probably be now. They have two successful models in the 1125 and they have an AMA Championship. They should be able to pull greater value. The issue is this, why would you sell Buell a year after buying MV Augusta which, by all indications, is a much less profitable and much less marketable marque. Evidently the author of the article missed this small detail. Buell on their own would do very little to correct the current dealer issues and would probably create far more issues. How about 10 dealers nationwide? How about the majority of deals being "fly and ride"? How about not haveing a servicing dealer within 500 miles of you? What HD does have, compared to Buell, is deep pockets. | ||
| Firebolt020283 |
how could any one not like Erik Buell? | ||
| Panhead_dan |
"How about 10 dealers nationwide? How about the majority of deals being "fly and ride"? How about not having a servicing dealer within 500 miles of you?" That does make sense starting out. Increasing dealership numbers should be an immediate priority. A potential buyer WILL look at service availability real hard. Nobody will ride 500 miles for an oil change. Franchise incentives could create dealership numbers fast. Once the system becomes near to what it needs to be, the incentives could be scaled back and the profits would begin to improve. | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
I'm sorry, but that's simply insane. Harley-Davidson makes more than twice as much money selling general merchandise like jackets and coffee mugs than they do from selling Buell Motorcycles. In 2008, HD's annual report states that they sold $313.8m in general merch, making up 5.6% of corporate revenues. Buell Motorcycles, on the other hand, made $123.2m in revenues, or 2.2% of corporate revenues. According to the company 10k statement for 2008, Buell accounted for 4,000 of HD's 222,200 motorcycle registrations. Of the 686 HD dealerships in 2008, more than half of them don't even sell Buells. So, the idea that Buell motorcycles will make up for...well...anything at Harley Davidson is so at variance with the actual facts as to qualify as sheer fantasy. Let's not pretend that Buell has either the user base or financial performance to rank as a serious part of Harley Davidson. How many motorcycles did HD sell in 1928? How many motorcycles did HD sell in 1948? Buell is a farm team with significant potential. We are probably seeing a 30 year time horizon for the Baby Boomer "egg to move through the snake". For every 25-35 year old HD buyer there are probably 20-30 Baby Boomer buyers. Once this group is gone, the replenishment of buyers is in trouble. How many Buell owners are 50+ and NOT buying an HD and don't plan to buy an HD? Where will Buell be in 30 years? If the expectation is that Buell can become one of the largest and fastest growing motorcycle manufacturers, why would you sell it. Why would you sell it when, as you say, the entire operation costs less than the T-Shirt sales? Seems like a pretty cheap price on an option for a strong company down the road. | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
I would never own an Aprilia because the closest dealer is 140 miles from me. No one is going to buy a Buell having to travel 500 miles for anything. | ||
| Froggy |
The guy must of never met him. | ||
| Jpowell490 |
Well you face another problem all together, actually a few of them. I wrote about this in another post. Hardly any of the HD dealers that have Buells on the showroom floor know anything about them and they carry NO Buell merchandise anywhere in the store. The redneck good ol' boy Harley attitude will NEVER embrace the sportbike that Buell is. I don't care how you slice it, you are getting into a David vs Goliath. The other issue plays in with the first one, dealer support. Do you think I am going to take my Buell to a dealer because it has a Buell sign, but the mechanics know nothing about them? Hell no. Then we have these recall situations where people say all the recall's are complete! Then people's bikes are in the shop right after they buy them. And no, I am not referring to my situation either, there are 100's of threads on similar situations. Here is the facts, if the dealers will actually go over the bikes, perform all known issues and check them out thoroughly, then you will improve customer satisfaction. I suspect the 2010 model 1125r coming out will be much improved, not from a performance standpoint, but from the past issues they have corrected. I love my 1125R, I really really do. I am proud they just won the AMA championship. 90% of the other forums out there are outraged the Buell is getting to compete in the 600 class. They don't understand their bikes have 4 cylinders to the Buell's 2 cylinders. All they look at is displacement, so through all the struggles Buell has endured, I am not so sure the AMA championship will help much except from a marketing standpoint. I absolutely hope that the dealers will start doing a better job and not on just the sell of the bike. I hope they will promote the Buell lineup and actually carry some accessories. The dealers can make or break Buell in the long run. It is like selling snow cones in alaska. If the HD dealerships were 50% Harley and 50% Buell, that would make a HUGE difference in their adoption and the sales. Throughout all the issues I have had, I love mine and wouldn't trade it for anything. I see Buell as being much like HD was back in the day, they were not widely accepted and did not sell that many motorcycles, but it became a lifestyle and that fueled sales. Buell will be the same way if we can get some support behind it. | ||
| Glitch |
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| Ferris_von_bueller |
Moreover, you underestimate how deeply people at the MoCo--including people whose last names begin with "D"--intensely dislike Erik Buell. Wow. I guess it's possible considering those two men, on the surface, couldn't be further from one another in style and philosophy. All this talk of moving factories and shedding Buell tells me Harley is desperate. Hey Harley, times are tough - relax !!!! | ||
| 4cammer |
"Moreover, you underestimate how deeply people at the MoCo--including people whose last names begin with "D"--intensely dislike Erik Buell." And why is that? | ||
| Hootowl |
Buell isn't doomed, even if HD does sell it. Remember when HD bought itself back from AMF? It saved the brand. Could Buell find some capital and do the same? And...IF HD execs are bad mouthing EB, perhaps they are the ones with the attitude problem. | ||
| Dalefranks |
Huh. Yeah. Describe precisely how winning the AMA Sportbike championship fundamentally alters Buell's business problems. I'm keen to hear it. Look, this has nothing to with whether or not Buell makes good motorcycles, or whether a suitably altered Buell can win in AMA Sportbike or WSBK. It's about business. Buell has been a business failure for Harley. 2/3 of the fault lies with Harley, who couldn't have done better at making Buell a failure if they'd intentionally tried. HD sells twice as much in orange dog scarves and rhinestone belts for girls than they do Buell Motorcycles. Do you somehow think that's a good thing for Buell? | ||
| Swordsman |
My warranty is long gone. Give me full parts availability online, and I'd love to see Buell go solo. Not like I'm going to ask any dealers to do it for me... that would just be crazy!  ~SM | ||
| Ferris_von_bueller |
I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss Dale's prognostication. His article makes as much sense as anything else I've read on this issue. Unless he's outright lying about his confidential sources, he paints a bleak picture. It's worse than I imagined. Trying to repair personal relationships is harder than fixing business relationships. | ||
| Ratgin |
Au contraire....H-D is profitable with or without Buell. That said, so long as a business case can be made for Buell as a Harley unit, it stays. If not, well........... Never forget, H-D is the most profitable MC mfr. in the world for very good reasons. Harley has enough problems right now without causing more, The financial news from Harley-Davidson is bleak: a second quarter drop in profits of 91%, with $19.8 million in earnings compared with $222.8 million a year ago, and U.S. market share dropping from 53.1%, to 48.7%. Harley stock has also fallen to nearly half of its value compared to last year, and the manufacturer has announced an additional 1,000 layoffs. | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
Throwing Buell overboard for financial reasons is like pouring a bucket of piss overboard to save the titanic from sinking. I guess it COULD make sense, but given that HD isn't even close to sinking and isn't even close to being out of cash Would having only three versions of orange dog scarves and rhinestone belts for girls instead of four really cause HD to discard Buell? The HD people seemed to be really enjoying being part of the Buell race season. | ||
| Blake |
>>>HD sells twice as much in orange dog scarves and rhinestone belts for girls than they do Buell Motorcycles. That is a very inaccurate characterization of H-D's apparel market. Lot's of very high end merchandise gets sold to make generate the revenue they do, leather jackets, boots, rain gear, helmets, chaps, textile gear... Avoid the exaggeration as it diminishes the credibility of everything else you state. | ||
| Hootowl |
Haven't most stocks taken a beating this year? And don't most companies that rely on disposable income do poorly in recessions? Lets face it, motorcycles are toys for most people. I would expect sales to decline in this environment. They're not losing money. Buell isn't losing money either. HD is pocketing money from Buell. Not a lot in comparison, but still a net gain. Why would any company in its right mind dump a profit center? | ||
| Ferris_von_bueller |
The HD people seemed to be really enjoying being part of the Buell race season. Which ones would that be? I didn't recognize anyone from HD at NJ this past weekend. |
