| Author | Message | ||
     Cu_chulann |
I also have discovered a false neutral between higher gears on downshifts.It always happens in the heat of the moment, trying to force an extra shift approaching a bend.Rear wheel locking verifies the bike is not ready to shift down.Engine and rear wheel revs.not compatible.If you got lots of spare cash try to locate a slipper clutch.I do not know if this will cure false neutral.Should be more user friendly on the Y fronts though. | ||
| Joplin |
I have a pressing question,,,(ie i am in the garage right now,lol) ,,do i really need to drop my let isolator to remove most of the tranny? '95 S2 thanks jm | ||
| Reepicheep |
Not on my Cyclone I didn't, no idea about the S2. Is the isolator in the way or something? | ||
| Joplin |
I dunno yet,,,been trying to get that damn sprocket nut off. I've even been using an air impact to no avail. Anyhow, the book says it needs to be removed,(the isolator),,,so,,,hmmmm any tips on that nut? thanks JM edited by joplin on May 04, 2004 | ||
| Joplin |
I searched the archives and it seems the aluminum plate "somewhere" is the key.Should it be in the primary chain and sprockets or the secondary sprockets? Can someone spell it out for the dumb research immunologist? Thanks JM | ||
| Sportyeric |
I hope you're not still at it at this time of the night. The aluminum plate, or a raw-hide dog-chew, or whatever material you like, jams into the primary chain and sprockets. One of the nuts is left hand thread, the other right. Its got red locktite and a good bit of torque so, as long as you're turning in the right direction just give it time. A bit of heat wouldn't hurt if applied correctly. I suspect that the starter ring of the clutch basket may not clear the sideplate. If the manual says it has to come off, that would be why, I'd guess, looking at mine. | ||
| Reepicheep |
I just used a scrap aluminum bar (which I think was at some point a rail for a hanging sliding closet door in some house I owned a decade ago) cut to the right size. It wedges between the teeth of the two primary sprockets, the fact that it is aluminum means it will bend before the expensive bits do. A towel can be wrapped into both sprockets to tie them up in a pinch, but I had much better luck with the rigid bar. Once it is wedged in there, you can stand on a 2 ft breaker bar. The first bounce, the aluminum piece will shoot out into the pan holding your freshley drained primary fluid. It does not matter where the pan is, it could be in your neighbors garage and the aluminum bar will still find it and get fully submerged. I think its some sort of quantum entanglement thing. On the second attempt, the socket will slip off, and the breaker bar and socket will fall into the fluid pan. On the third attempt, the nut will generally let go (which releases tension, and the bar and wrench again go into the primary fluid drain pan). It's a good way to keep your sockets lubed. The long breaker bar has worked better then my crappy low end impact tools for removing those nuts. | ||
| Hootowl |
I'm not sure about that, but here's a rabbit with a pancake in its head.  Hope that helped. | ||
| Hootowl |
OK, a little history. I was on a car audio forum yesterday looking for something, and a guy asked a question. I can't really tell you what he asked, as his writing style made comprehension impossible. Anyway, some people responded with "Yes..er..no..er..what was the question?" But one guy posted that picture of the rabbit, and I spewed coffee all over my keyboard. Just thought I'd share. Jeff | ||
| Road_thing |
Maybe it's an antenna? Now I'm hungry for breakfast... r-t | ||
| Sarodude |
WTF... That rabbit has to be one of the best pix I've seen in a LONG time... -Saro | ||
| Joplin |
Hey, THanks fellas, I guess my lack of communication skills is once again holding my progress back. I am still trying to get the sprocket nut off the secondary drive side of things. maybe i'll just leave it on. sheez. I dont think I really need it off to pull my gear assembly outta the other side. Thanks for your help,,, JM | ||
| Bomber |
saw an add on TV t'other night . .. . cute little muffin of a 6 year old girl, at the dinner table, holding her stuffed bunny, stirring dinner around her plate, asking "what's hosenpheffer?" fell out of the chair | ||
| Hootowl |
The impact wrench isn't working? | ||
| Joplin |
Man i pounded away with that thing for two hours and could barely hear when i finally gave up. I was wondering if i need to somehow make it more rigid or maybe my impacts(2 of them) are crap. I dunno,,,and its gonna be 80 degrees here today,,,argh,,,I'm dying,,,,jm | ||
| Mikej |
I've never had much success with the hammer the end of it directly into the shaft type of impact drivers. A firm wrap on the end of a breaker bar often does wonders, but a air-impact driver seems to be the best - as long as you are turning it in the correct direction. What has worked for me in the past on other projects and applied to this one: 1. brace the bike well. 2. install a 6-point socket onto a 1/2" drive or bigger extension. 3. insert the breaker bar to the end of the extension. 4. support the end of the extenstion with a jackstand or something so that all force is applied rotationally instead of trying to slip the socket over and off the nut/bolt. 5. apply a lot of pressure to the end of the breaker bar with one hand, and whack the bar with a small sledge hammer or large carpenter hammer, something in the 24ounce to 6pound range seem to work best and are the easiest to control. The support on the end helps to direct the force to unscrewing the hardware. The whacking helps to break loose any surface tension and thread locker. Heat also helps soften up any thread locker, not enough heat to melt seals, but enough to soften LocTite to just take the brittleness away. But be absolutely certain that you are turning everything in the correct direction. reverse threads are confusing as hell when you're all sweaty and frustrated. Trust me on that one.  | ||
| Hootowl |
Please clarify: Are you trying to remove the nut on the crankshaft, the clutch, or the transmission output shaft? | ||
| Reepicheep |
Joplin... a rigid lock between the two sprockets is what works best for me. Without that, I don't think your impact tools are actually impact tools, they just "wiggle things" tools. Once you get a good rigid lockbar in there, slap a two foot or better breaker bar on the rotor (crank) nut and stand on it, bouncing if necessary. It should come off. Note that wood is NOT strong enough to use to lock the sprockets, I tried. Like Mike said though, make really sure you are turning it the correct direction, as per the service manual. Many here have gotten it backwards. If you are talking about pulling off the front belt pulley, no you don't have to take out the tranny cartridge. If you are talking about the 5th gear drive assembly, the thing the front belt pulley attaches to, then you absolutely do have to pull the tranny to get it out, and to put it back in. Even with the tranny out it is a non trivial effort. Note however that for a quick and dirty fix, it *might* be possible to press the internal bearings out of that drive assembly without pulling it from the engine cases, but probably not. If I were doing it again, I would probably spend the $10 on necessary hardware and give it a try, but not expect much luck. Regardless, the tranny will still need to come out. | ||
| Joplin |
dang,,,I am sorry to be wasting your time ,,,I am trying to get the transmission output shaft ( secondary (belt) drive sprocket nut ) off. I will be trying for the others but this one has priority. crankshaft not yet clutch not yet thanks jeff jm | ||
| Hootowl |
You have removed the locking plate right? (Sorry, I have to ask) Try some heat to break up the locktite. | ||
| Joplin |
I dont blame you for asking  lol Yup, that part was easy, right? I'll give her a little heat , very little, and go from there, i guess. hmmm jm | ||
| Road_thing |
Like Hootowl said: put a little heat on it. Then it's just righty-loosey, lefty-tighty. r-t | ||
| Reepicheep |
If you are turning the right way, that one is usually not that bad. I seem to recall holding the brake and bouncing on a breaker bar. | ||
| Joplin |
Heya Bill, sorry, I somehow missed your longer post above re the "dirty fix". Yes, that is what I am trying to do. With luck, the only thing I need to do is pull the outer "inner" cage bearing in. So i am hoping to not have to remove the ?5th gear drive assembly? (dont have my manual here). Thanks for your tech input, it is much appreciated and i cant wait to loose that locking shim in the tranny oil and/or fall on my a** as the bike teeters precariously over my cursing weeping supine form.... jm | ||
| Reepicheep |
 Thats what it'll look like all right... I have piece of rebar that goes through the hollow rear axle and sits on two jackstands... that keeps the bike from falling on me. The rest happens exactly as you describe though... Of course, you gotta remember to remove the rebar when you are done before going for a ride... don't ask  You can probably inspect that "outer inner" cage bearing (a perfect description ) by just using a deck screw to remove out the seal on the end of the 5th gear drive assembly. I don't think you have to take off anything but the front belt drive sprocket cover for that. Don't know how much you can see, but if it is as bad as mine is, you can tell its bad because ground up needle bearings covered with rust will fall out  If you need to remove anything further though, the tranny definately has to come out. With bunches of help (and appropriate warnings) from Hoser, I was able to jury rig a tool to press out that 5th gear drive assembly. It has to come out into the tranny case, and you destroy the bearing that supports it in the process. It looks good sitting here on my desk at work as I type, a nice conversation piece. But I was thinking after the fact, that it *might* be possible to just press out both those inner cage bearings without removing the 5th gear drive assembly, nor killing that big main bearing around it. My thoughts were to get a large threaded bolt with as fine threading as I can find. A big bolt, but one with a shaft that will fit through the middle of those cage bearings. You would also need some sort of strong metal tube (pipe?) that has just barely larger an inner diameter then the inner diameter of the 5th gear drive assembly. Something that would allow you to place a heavy load on the 5th gear assembly and pull those cage bearings completely out. Finally, you would need a pile of washers that would fit over the bolt, and could be trimmed (or would fit without modification) inside the 5th gear drive assembly, but would catch squarely on those cage bearings. Heck, maybe just the nut would do it, or a nut with some corners ground down a little. So my thought was instead of pressing out the 5th gear drive assembly with a threaded rod and plate, you pull out those bearings with a threaded rod and washers. The reason it might not work would be that you have to pull both at the same time, and the manual uses scary words like "hydraulic press". I don't know how the force generated by the press would compare to the force generated by a thick and fine threaded high grade bolt, high grade nut, and high grade washers. I took my 5th gear assembly (out of the bike) to a local Harley dealer, one who is OK but not the best, and all they would tell me is that they billed me a full hour of labor to remove the existing bearings and install the new ones. Don't know how long it actually took, but thats what they charged me. I did not have the stomach to sit down and measure if they actually seated the new cage bearings to the right depth, I lacked the emotional energy to face it if they did not, I was replacing that assembly and rebuilding my transmission all at the same time. It looked OK. Another very real possibility would be to use a dremel tool and / or a sharp triangle file / hacksaw blade / whatever and cut the old cage bearings out of there. Again, in theory it could be done, but in practice I don't know if it would be practical. I would think it would be much easier to press new ones in (with a bolt) then to press the old ones out (however). So those are my thoughts. Keep us up to date, feel free to not want to be the lab rat, it probably makes more sense to just follow the manual, remove the whole assembly, and get somebody with a hydraulic press to get do it. | ||
| Joplin |
ok, here's the pic of the S2 sprocket pulley with the offending bearing, notice that most of the bearings are still there, they were being held in by the coverbecause the end plug was gone. lets see....... jm  | ||
| Reepicheep |
Sorry man... looks like you get to pull a tranny. Were is the cage for those bearings, rusted away to nothing? It's trivial to get that end plug out... wonder if it would be worth removing it every primary change and flushing those bearings out with solvent and repacking them with grease... | ||
| Bomber |
Reep -- as the resident expert, can you tell me why/how these things are getting rusty in there in the first place? any prophylactic steps to be taken? | ||
| Joplin |
No, the cage is still there and the bearings are in good shape, it just migrated out. I think i will be able to pull a new bearing in as you described above if/when i can get the darn thing apart. Thanks for your input,,,,jm | ||
| Reepicheep |
AHhhhh I see... thats the whole freaking cage hanging out there.... That sure simplifies removal!!!! I think getting new ones in would be much easier then getting the old ones out. Bomber... Hoser is the real expert, I am just a victim That prophylactic step is what I was wondering about. The problem is some unknown combination of poor lubricant circulation over on that side, and misadjusted belt tension. Keeping the belt tension correct is easy, and pays off in other ways. As for the water, I don't know if popping that cover and packing in a heavy grease every 5000 miles or so would make things better or worse. Or maybe just drop your bike on the right side and let it sit once every few months Hoser's opinion (which is based on facts and experiences, as opposed to my opinions which are conjectures and hopes) was that you are better off not packing grease in there, and should just let the lubricant flow (even if not as much as it should). |
