| Author | Message | ||
     Ccryder |
Spike: Do you have the original Showa on your M2? The replacement Showa has more preload available. Your other alternative is to talk to Works Performance and they will custom spring and valve a shock for your weight and riding. Neil S. | ||
| Blake |
Neil, Preload is one thing, adjusts sag only, not spring rate (stiffness). I know you know that. Just wanted to clarify. | ||
| Willyb |
Looking for a complete front end. Late model with inverted forks. | ||
| X1nut |
Just a little warning for anyone considering raising the forks up in the triple clamps. I don't know about any other models, but I raised the forks in my X1 by just 1/8" and WOAH...WOAH WHOAH!!! Holy crap! It really made my bike handle wierd! It turns into corners WAY QUICK! High speed stability is all but gone. I'm putting the forks back where they belong first chance I get. I don't like the bike going into near-tankslappers at speed on corners I used to rip through. Don't like it at all. Nope. Looks like the designers put the forks in the right place from the start. Unless you are only using your x1 for really tight, twisty tracks, I would recommend not moving your forks up. Oh, by the way, I also have Crossroads clip on bars, (which I love to death...awesome) which probably aggrivated the problem I encountered after moving my forks. Maybe it's not as bad with the stock handlebars? I'd like to know if anyone else has experienced this! On my way up to Taos Friday morning I had my saddlebags loaded down, and that really intensified the problem. I really freaked myself out a couple of times. Not fun. | ||
| Blake |
Willy, You might have better luck posting on the "Parts Wanted" page of the "Classifieds" topic.  X1nut, You might try increasing your front preload (reduce sag to minimum end of specified range) before hastily judging the effects of raising the forks 1/8". Though, you are right, raising the forks will quicken steering and lead to instability. I'm just surprise you are seeing such a drastic difference with only 1/8" adjustment. If rear preload is set to minimize sag, you might reduce rear preload (increase sag) to recover some of your lost stability. Also check front tire pressure; make sure it is at least 34 psi cold. | ||
| Vwolf |
Blake from a way back post "my shock finally died" from Vwolf I havn,t had time to answer you Blake sorry very sorry please excuse please very sorry hehehe ok..ya not ridding much because of the problem.Well the replacement shock on my 2000M2 has been leaking very badly and I think it is toast..(ITS TOAST says the track teacher at the last school here) because it BANGS as hard forward as back..would you believe I ran the track all day like that,..you would love to see the wheel hop at 130mph wow well I am planning to get a real shock (penske) rather than a new showa replac ement ...any comments>> please I also am not happy with the slap in the front suspension..I have Tats new race springs in them and was going to get the Gold Valves but was told not avaiable for the 2M2.I plan to play the add oil game till it gets better hmm maybe Vwolf wcb chicago | ||
| Bull |
Alright, I didn't get any answers for this Q in the General discussion board... so I'll move it here;-) Since I'm going to replace the front engine mount on my M2 with one for an X1.. I thought I'd go "all the way" and include the upper tie-rod (standard on X1, optional on M2). Does anyone know how to adjust the little bugger? With or without any preload, to a specific measure or what? The torque for the isolator mounting bolts in the head should be around 100Nm, or..? Anyway, thanks a lot in advance ;-) /Jonas | ||
| Smadd |
"But didn't all 98s have WP forks, not Showas, and weren't all Showas equiped with both rebound and compression on both sides? Just a typo, Steve?" Whoops. Not a typo. Just a brain fart. I know they're WP. I guess I just had Showa on my mind, as my previous suspension dealings (some time ago) were with the shocks. Steve | ||
| Blake |
Bull, You really should consult a factory service manual on these issues. That said, I would be VERY surprised if the heim joints should be preloaded. Even without knowing for sure, I'm darn near 99.999% certain that you should actually try to avoid inducing ANY preload into your new front heim joint. Still, please check a service manual to be sure. Also check a service manual for torque values. Trying to work on such vital parts of your machine without the service manual for guidance is really asking for trouble. This is a mantra that I shall be preaching much more often and much more vehemently from now on. Don't take it personally; I just don't want to hear about your front mount coming apart while on the road. That would really suck. If, as I suspect, you don't have a service manual, maybe someone here will be kind enough to dig up the pertinent info for you. I sold mine with the '00 M2 and now with the '97 M2 am able to use the online PDF version of the '97 S1 manual for just about everything except battery, cams, and forks. Good luck! | ||
| Bull |
Thanks Blake, I totally agree with you, I normally never do anything without my manual... Yes, I actually have one, but it's for 97'S1! That means that it covers a different head setup (at least I think/suspect) the thunderstorm heads are re-inforced with some sort of web-structure and that may affect torque.. (the manual I have states 97-104Nm something) and it doesn't cover the heim joint! So, I agree with Blake: Maybe someone with a manual for an X1'99-01 (!) would be kind enough to provide me with the information I so desperately need... (torque for the isolator mount to the head and also adjustment info on the upper heim joint) Cheers/ Jonas | ||
| Djkaplan |
Bull, you're losing me with the "optional upper tie rod" for the M2 that comes standard on the X1. I haven't really looked at an X1 very closely; what's the deal? | ||
| Vwolf |
Vwolf I noticed my 2000m2 did NOT have that little tie rod thingie at the front top also.I asked about it and ya! after the purchase and had one installed.I think its called a stablizer p#1621979B $32.00. question is what part is 9949100y?? $46.00 Vwolf | ||
| Hootowl |
Bull, You probably don't want to hear this but... I looked for the torque spec for the front mount, but this is all I found: Caution Do not attempt to remove the front isolator mount from front cylinder head. Isolator mount is an integral component and is not meant to be removed unless absolutely necessary. Repeated removals and installations will damage cylinder head threads. No torque spec was given. Also... Caution Do not adjust tie bar assemblies. The tie bar tension is set at the factory. Any attempt at adjusting tension will cause damage to tie bars. Damaged tie bars must be replaced. That sucks. They could at least give the length of the damn thing and the torque just in case someone HAD to take theirs off. You could call customer service and explain the situation. Maybe they would fork over the info. | ||
| Bull |
Thanks a lot for your effort Guys! First of all, just as Vwolf says, the little stabilizer is factory-fit on the X1, but you have all the fastening points on the M2 as well, so therefore it could be considered as optional ;-) Hootowl, I have the same text in my manual, but a little forward in the manual it states someting like this "if you were stupid enough and removed the darn engine mount it should be mounted with the following torque spec...". I think it is under the re-assembly part of the chapter! (sure hope you have the same text..) And lets hope the stabilizer joint comes pre-adjusted... Again, thanks a lot (this BBS is a virtual Goldmine) /Jonas | ||
| Hootowl |
I figured it would eventually tell me, but I couldn't find it. Did you? You'd think there would be a torque table at the end of the chapter. | ||
| Bull |
Hootowl, The table is in the beginning of the chapter (at least in my manual..) and it's mentioned in the assembly part of the chapter. I know for sure that a couple of guys have done this on their bikes so I think that someone should be able to tell me... plz!! Thanks! /Jonas | ||
| Djkaplan |
That's odd. My 2000 M2 (which I bought in August of 2000) has the tie-bar at the top. Maybe Buell started to install these items as standard equipment for more lateral engine stability. I wonder if this tie-bar has anything to do with the exhaust/stud breaking problem that seems to plague some Buells. I have not had any (as of yet) on my V&H equipped bike. Are M2's without these items more prone to this failure? Bull, UKBuell did a pretty good story with pictures and torque values on replacing the front mount on an M2 with one from an X1. It was well written and very clear. I think they used some factory documentation on the installation (not sure). I tried to find this story in their archives but they don't go back far enough. I'm sure they would provide this thread on request though. | ||
| Aaron |
Service Bulletin B-018 tells how to tighten that front mount onto the head. There's a very specific procedure. I'm not sure if that bulletin is on this site. Let me know if you need it. Yeah, it says "Do Not Remove" on it, but you just try to remove the exhaust valve with that mount on the head. The tie-bars align the engine/rear wheel assembly to the frame/front wheel assembly. The way I do it is to strap some square aluminum tubing onto each side of the rear tire, and look at the gap between each tube and the front tire (I've found square tubing to be straighter than channel or angle). I generally adjust the front tie-bar to get that right. Make sure the rear wheel is aligned to the engine properly first before even making this measurement. Tilt, which is adjusted with the top tie-bar (the one above the center of the engine), I check with a camber gauge on each wheel, to equalize the lean. That 4th link that comes on X1's and S3's, I haven't used one but I'd just put it on with as little preload in either direction as I could. | ||
| Hootowl |
OK I'm confused. Did you find the torque spec or do you still need it? | ||
| Bull |
Dj, Aaron, Hootowl, Again thanks for the effort, you guys rule! Yes, I still need the torque spec and the procedure (I don't trust my manual in this matter since it's for an S1). Aaron, plz can you provide me with the SB?? I think I'll manage the issue with the bulletin and the adjustment info from you (I'll have the bike on a race-stand during adjustment). Cheers /Jonas | ||
| Hootowl |
Bull, Looked in the front of the chapter and found it. "Front isolator to cylinder head bolt" 73-78 ft-lbs (98.9-105.7 Nm) The notes say to use Loctite Threadlocker 262 (red) | ||
| Bull |
Thanks again! I'm actally on a crayfish party today (big tradition in Sweden...). Sometimes this is considered to be quite "barbaric"... he he he I was desperately curiuos so I managed to sneak away to check the BBS! I'll get back on the topic during monday;-) Have a good weekend! /Jonas | ||
| Bull |
Back again... I barely managed to survive the weekend;-) Aaron, can you provide me with the service bulletin? With that, I think I have all necessary information I need to complete the job. Cheers/ Jonas | ||
| Bull |
Alright, here's the deal, I've got all the info I need to fix the freakin` isolator mount... If I run in to any more problems I'll get back on this topic;-) Thanks for your help Aaron, Hootowl and Djkaplan (I'd hug you if you were closer[beware, LOL])! /Jonas | ||
| Javahed |
Hi guys, OK, tried "dialing in" my suspension -- just screwed it up  Left the rear shock preload alone but messed with everything else. Now instead of a bike that felt great in the corners and steady even up around 130mph (why did I mess with it?!?) I have a bike that still corners well but feels "twitchy" like any wiggling of the bars by me when driving makes the bike want to go into a tankslapper mode. Also - when I get up to 95/100mph, the front end does start to wobble (baby tank slapper) and keeps getting progressivly worse until I slow down. I'm 5'10", 190 - 195lbs and ride solo 98% of the time. Any suspension setting suggestions? And before ya'll start with the tech terms, I know the adjusters as the screw on top of my forks, and the one on the bottoms. The screw on the front of the rear shock and the screw on the back of it. Thanks a bunch in advance! Dan | ||
| Jmartz |
Having run the original isolators around 44,000 miles I was used to (and liked it) thair level of vibration. When the belt lost a few teeth, I replaced the isolators also. I chose the "D" variants as I thought theylooked better than the new "pancake" ones. Well the level of vibration in the handlebars has me hating my bike. | ||
| Blake |
Java, Got an owner's manual? Before doing anything to your suspension, please take the time to record its current settings. Peruse the archives here. You will not get a concise one paragraph answer. You need to study the system and try to understand it. I thought I offered some advice on this earlier. Check my posts in the recent archives. Twitchiness and head shake indicate to much rear preload (too little rear sag) and/or too little front preload (too much front sag). Read your owner's manual. Document the current settings. Read the archives. Change ONE thing at a time. Document the settings. Good luck. Call me if you really get stuck. (My number can be found in the Rider's Assistance Network list) | ||
| Javahed |
Blake, Thanks - did read the owner's manual. Vague at best about frontal settings Rear sag was set by Buell tech at the shop - with me getting on and off throughout the process. Just wondering, which adjuster screws are the preload for the frontend - up top of the fork tubes, or down bottom. Thanks! Dan | ||
| Blake |
I think your manual should illustrate all the adjustments. If not, the preload is the hex adjuster on top of forks that isn't there. Dang X1's require spacers to sdjust preload. No big deal, but not as easy as turning a hex adjuster. As to the rear sag... do you want to set up your suspension, or do you want to trust that the Buell tech did it optimally? If you are not willing to document the entire setup front and rear I cannot help you. Do you understand how to measure sag? Do you understand the effects of sag/preload adjustment front and rear? | ||
| Javahed |
Blake, Thanks for the info. Went out, set everything to factory. Then did sag by the book (and by an article in Motorcyclist mag) and started riding and writing. Got it smooth up to a speed I hardly ever go - and feeling great in the turns. Between that and re reading Twist of the Wrist II I think I'm getting in the ballpark  Thanks again! Dan |
