| Author | Message | ||
     Kmt |
Just wondering what some people local Harley and Buell shops are charging per book hour. Also, how many book hours do you normally see charged to take the rims off the bike put new tires and and reinstall? Just wanted to see if the $80/hr at 3 hours for my tires seemed right. The instalation cost me more than a new set of front and back tires. I have already learned my lesson hehe. | ||
| Vaneo1 |
I recommend pulling them off yourself, and taking them to Cyclegear (if you have one near you) theyll mount and balance for $15 ea. then you just have to put them back on. Way less $$ than any HD dealer. | ||
| 984gasm |
I took the rear wheel off myself and paid $50 to have mounted and balanced and had to take it to a shop to have the front wheel taken off (don't have a front stand unfortunately) and paid $70.. Kinda sucks, but $240 sounds a little excessive, and by a little I mean f#ckn ridiculous | ||
| Diablobrian |
I had my rear dismounted, mounted, and balanced for $20 at a local indie shop. It would have been $40 on the bike. | ||
| Duckbuell |
I am finding that independent shops in Austin are refusing to mount tires that you purchase via the web. Their excuse is that they do not want the liability of mounting a potentially defective tire. Dealerships want $75 to $100 to mount your tires when you bring your rims and tires in. Of course the real reason is that they want you to purchase tires through them. It is them against the internet. Could we not mount our own tires and static balance them? You can purchase the stick-on weights. | ||
| Jerseybuell |
I brought my wheels in along with new tires I bought on-line..$70 to have them mounted and balanced at Liberty Harley. Didn't think it was too bad a deal for $35 each. | ||
| Firebolteric_ma |
i DON'T think the word "DEAL" and "HARLEY" can be used in the same sentence, can they?  | ||
| Drift |
Nope. That is completely crazy!! You got jacked!! | ||
| Jerseybuell |
Typically, no. But, considering what other dealerships charge as well as independent shops, it is an acceptable level of pain... | ||
| Odinbueller |
Dealership vs. independent shop labor rates will always be different. You should always support a shop that treats you right, regardless if it is affiliation to the motor company. We base our labor on the needs of the shop (i.e. training of technicians, upkeep, special tools). You should also consider how much money you pay in labor goes back into a shop. We put a lot of money into our service department, factory trained technicians, complete machine shop, brightly lit & kept clean, not to mention the SPX/Kent Moore tools that the motor company wants us to use. Yes, you could probably find someone to do the work for less money, but you always get what you pay for. Just be careful who you trust your discretionary recreational fun toys to. (Message edited by odinbueller on July 25, 2006) | ||
| Firebolteric_ma |
---------------------but you always get what you pay for.-------------------------------- that is a FALSE statement...... i have paid BIG money at the H/D dealer and got totally $h!t service... so it is not "YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR" at them dealerships.. i do believe in supporting the dealership that treats you and your bike correctly, weather it be a big dealer or back yard mechanic. | ||
| Jerseybuell |
To date, I have received nothing but good service at Liberty. No headaches so far so, I'll pay the xtra $ to leave the shop a satisfied customer. I am very selective when I farm out work for my motorcycles and I just go with those that have earned my business regardless of whether they are HD or not. | ||
| Beachbuell |
Generally speaking to R+R a tire on any bike is 1 hour labor. And trust me it is every bit of that 1 hour to dismount, change, balance and remount, in most cases. | ||
| Daves |
If the wheels are on the bike we charge an hour per end at 65.00 per hour. If you bring then in off the bike it's 1/2 hour to take off the old tire, put on the new tire and spin balance it. I have a friend that just learned a valuable lesson, He bought his tires off the net, cause they were cheaper than I could get them for him. Our shop was booked for about 2 weeks and due to his lack of planning, since the cords were showing on his tires he called a local independant shop. Yes, they could get him in and were a whopping 20.00 or so less than we are. Well he dropped the tires off one day and the bike the next. They got right on it. When he called later that day to see if it was done they informed him they couldn't get the front wheel off(you smart guys are going to already know what they did) and that they broke the fork fork trying! My friend comes in to ask me wtf they did and of course I told him to call them right now and tell them to stop working on his bike. I did not want them also damaging his belt or swingarm by messing with the rear wheel. The shop brings the bike to us. Yep, they cracked the left fork right by the axle. I stood and watched as Ernie(who knows how to work on a Buell) loosen the axle with not much extra effort. Well after we filed the flats in the axle so we could get the axle tool in the axle, I have no idea what they were using to try to get the axle loose. Yep you guessed it, they spent all day turning it the wrong way! Soooo, they are buying Geoff a new fork and paying us to do the work. Of course we don't stock forks so now he has been without a bike for over a week. Lesson? | ||
| Kootenay |
Daves' story points up the reason I've learned to change tires myself (actually, I do all maintenance on my bike myself, except for warranty work which requires a multi-day trip to the coast because there are no local dealers). It may take me longer working completely by hand (6 hours last time to change both tires--that includes wheel removal and installation both ends, tire change, balancing, and general clean-up and inspection while I'm at it), but on the other hand, I know the job was done by a tech who's not in a rush, owns--and takes the time to read--the manual, and has a personal interest in doing the job right! | ||
| Daves |
To me it's just not worth it to do my own tires. I just paid the shop 135.00 to change 2 tires on my bagger before Kandie and I go on vacation. I don't have the time, room or tools to do it right and not have it turn into a real PITA. 135.00 versus 6 hours of my limited time off? Hmmmm, yep, my time off is worth more than 22.00 per hour | ||
| Skyguy |
I take my bike in to a local indie shop. He hands me some track stands and I pull the wheels off myself. He then does a mount and static balance for $30.00 (I always pay $40.00). He is an ex WSMC racer and will let me rip my bike apart and give advice when needed for almost no money at all. HD prices for tire changes are criminal. Even Daves said they charge one hour per tire and it only takes half an hour per tire. Now I have to go do the wheel bearings under recall and I am SCARED to take my bike to any of the "local" HD shops. I also can not leave my bike anywhere for three weeks. | ||
| Darthane |
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ and had to take it to a shop to have the front wheel taken off (don't have a front stand unfortunately) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ 984gasm, you don't need a front wheel stand to get the front wheel off. Put it on a swingarm stand and put a jack under the front of the muffler. You might want to stabilize it somehow, or you could just be careful.  | ||
| Teeps |
Duckbuell Posted on Monday, July 24, 2006 <snip> Could we not mount our own tires and static balance them? You can purchase the stick-on weights. I have mounted thousands of tires in my 30+ years in the business. I would not recommend mounting low profile tires without a machine. I have mounted such tires with tire irons (at home) but it's not worth the effort. Not to mention that rim or tire damage is very likely. | ||
| Daves |
"Criminal" might be a little strong? Everyone wants to make a good living but not pay for some one else to make a good living. Interesting. | ||
| No_rice |
i usually change my own tires, but this last time i let our shop do it since it is so damn hot and i just plain didnt feel like doing it. we charge $25 each if you take the tire and rim off the bike, and $50 each if you bring the whole bike in. assuming that you bought the tire through us. if you buy tires from some place else and bring them to us it will cost you a little more. | ||
| Lorazepam |
I have a harbor freight tire changer that I paid 70.00 for. I have made that money back several times by doing my own tires. Changing tires is not rocket science, and to pay a dealership more than 30 dollars each for mounting and balancing (wheels off the bike) is a ripoff. It sure isnt the lead mechanic doing the work, most likely the shop lackey, the same guy that does the oil changes. | ||
| Daves |
At our shop if it's a Buell then it's usually Ernie, my Buell tech(and a damn good one) doing the tire changes. I like Ernie to work on all Buells that come here, no matter what they need. | ||
| Perry |
My local Buell shop charges the same as Daves quoted. I take the wheels off myself and have them mounted at a local dealer for $75 total. Still overpriced, but my time is worth something too and I don't want to build/buy the stuff to do it right. I got the Pirelli Diablo Strada tires on the two for one deal, paid $150 total for both including shipping. What a deal! | ||
| Skyguy |
Daves, You are right Criminal is a little strong. The dealers around me have evoked a passionate (albeit negative) attitude regarding HD dealers in general. I know you to probally be one of the best and I intended no offense. But while on this topic I have a couple of questions. If it only takes half an hour to do a tire why does the shop charge for an hour? Why does the dealer require me to leave my bike for three+ weeks for something simple like a wheel bearing recall? Why can't I just make a darn apointment? I have gotten used to the fact that my bike requires more parts and maintainance than any other bike I have ever owned. I can not get used to the shelacking I take with the dealers. Thanks! | ||
| Skyguy |
BTW I don't bother correcting typos when I post. | ||
| Daves |
Thank you Sky, I will answer your questions the best I can. I do not work in service but of course am familiar with it and how it works at a big dealership. If it only takes half an hour to do a tire why does the shop charge for an hour? The time includes from the time the tech touches the bike to push it to his rack,put it on the rack,lift it up. It includes taking the wheel off,going to the tire change machine,taking off the old tire,taking off the old weights,putting on the new tires and then balancing it. Then of course you have to put the wheel back on the bike,take the bike off the lift,test ride the bike and then take it to the wash bay so the wash guy can wash it. I know I couldn't do all of that in an hour? Sure that some could, that is actually how a good tech makes good money(money they deserve and earn) by "beating book time" and turning in more than 8 hours of book time per 8 hour shift. It is that way in every service type business I am aware of. The flip side of it is if a tech isn't very good and an hour job takes them 2 hours, they get paid one hour instead of two. AND the customer pays one hour instead of two. Why does the dealer require me to leave my bike for three+ weeks for something simple like a wheel bearing recall? Not sure, depends on the time of year for most shops. In the spring,summer and fall(riding season) we could keep about 10 ,ore techs busy. But, in the winter we could use about 3 less than we have. There is no easy answer. You can either hire a bunch more techs and then lay them off in the winter. Or hire a bunch of highschool kids for the summer(not a good idea) to work on bikes. Or, you can try your best to reach a happy medium by having good,trained techs that you can employ year round and have a couple too many techs in the winter and be a few short in the summer. That is how most shops do it. Right or wrong? I don't know. What would you do? Why can't I just make a darn apointment? You can, but, and I am not trying to be a smart ass here so please don't take it that way, but your lack of planning ahead shouldn't put you in line in front of those that did. The motorcycle business has been this way since the first motorcycle was made. Busier in the summer(plan farther ahead if possible) and slower in the winter(if you can get the bike here we can work on it today) I know, some troubles are not known in advance and we really try to work those people in. It helps if the customer can get the broken bike here and leave it for a few days. Hope this helps? | ||
| Timxb9s |
Three hours to install 2 tires is sad. An experienced tech should be able to get 2 tires done on an XB in 1 1/2 hours. I have been doing my own tires on my bikes for years. A buddy of mine has an old rim clamp machine in his garage. So I just pull my wheels off at home and skoot over and mount and balance them there. The other night I replaced both tires on my XB and a rear tire on my FJR. It took me less than 1 hr to pull both wheels off the XB (The 1st time for me ever pulling the wheels off) 1/2 hour to mount and balance all three and 1/2 hour to put the wheels back on the XB. So the way I figure it, someone who is " Factory Trained" should be able to at least get it done as fast or faster than I could. And I don't even have fancy bike lifts or even race stands. | ||
| Chellem |
My math tells me that it took you about 2 hours, altogether, to replace the tires. That doesn't include driving to your friends house, or a test ride? I guess both of those can be done at once. But you have to count that time. At least, insured shops do. Shall we send off customers on tires and brakes without testing them to save them a few bucks?? Even if a "factory trained" tech gets the job done in 1 1/2 hours, it takes, at least around here, 20 or so minutes to get ANYWHERE near a 5 or 7 mile test ride. People also expect AT LEAST a wipe-down, bike should be at least as clean as when it was dropped off too, right? Did you factor that in to your time - cleaning your bike up? Besides just the straight time, you're paying for, ya know, electricity, training, equipment (well, maybe not in everyone's case), lots of other stuff. But we all know there's overhead involved in running a business. I understand that it's cool to bash H-D dealers, but when you start bashing DaveS himself, isn't it possible it's time to take a step back and think, hmm, maybe I'm not being 100% reasonable here? If you don't want to pay the price for a dealership, there are plenty of alternatives. I know lots of people who have brought their cars to quicky-lube places and had great results. I know a few who have had terrible results, and believe me the terrible ones are REALLY expensive. If you have the skills, by all means, do it yourself! But it's not fair to compare prices of a small aftermarket or tire-changing shop to a dealership. The overhead is no comparison - and I speak from experience having worked in both. If you're really good, you should try opening your own shop.  "Tire changes in 1 hour - without any equipment at all!" would be a great slogan. | ||
| Daves |
"Tire changes in 1 hour - without any equipment at all!" would be a great slogan. Don't forget "No appointment needed, we'll just drop what we were doing and do yours first, to hell with the guy that made an appointment 3 weeks ago" Just having some fun here  | ||
| Stealthxb |
Did you factor that in to your time cleaning your bike up? That is a value added service provided by dealers and should not be factored into the book hours required for service. | ||
| Timxb9s |
Chellem, Please don't get me wrong. I was in no way making a personal bash against Daves. My point was that if a garage lackey such as myself can pull wheels and mount tires in less than the time that a dealership charges then there is something wrong. Now granted, I'm no stranger to a tire machine. I worked as a auto mechanic and tire installer for many years. I also understand overhead and shop costs. But I also understand the value of repeat customers. And it is safe to say that Kmt will not be returning to that dealer for any out of pocket repairs. So was it worth it for that dealer to charge an extra $80 and have an unhappy customer? I don't think so, future repairs and service would have greatly outweighed that $80. Not to mention word of mouth. Just my $.02 Tim | ||
| Skyguy |
Daves, Thanks for taking the time to answer my questions. My planning was not poor in the case of my wheel bearings. Kinda hard to call a dealer and say, "Hi I think my wheel bearing is going to fail next week. Can I make an apointment" LOL (: I would never expect to be pushed ahead of other riders. I would expect to be able to schedule a day to get the work done though! Neither of my local dealers will allow me to make any apointment at all! Just told me to drop it off and it will get done when it gets done. I don't think either of my dealers deserve to sell Buells. I guess HD guys are ok with being bikeless but I am not. I use my bike full time and drive a truck only when nessecary. I am really glad I have new bearings but it looks like I am going to lose $90.00 worth of replacment bearings due to having to change them out myself. One would think HD would at least send me some new bearings as mine are the old style. Alas I hear that this can not happen unless I send my bike to the shop for weeks. The gas alone for three weeks of truck driving would be more than $90.00 so I have to cut my losses and do the work myself. So far I have gone through; 3 belts, 3 speedo sensors. All the drive pulleys, turn signal relay, wheel bearings, Steering bearings, Fork seals, headlights (piaas still to dim to be safe), clutch cable, Electrical issue due to chaffing. 30.00 in nuts and bolts that fell off due to vibration (locktite everything now). I guess I am lucky to not have used up a stator or regulator yet. Oh well, I guess it is just the nature of Buells to be a little less than easy on the wallet. | ||
| Daves |
Tim, I agree 3 hours is too long for 2 tires. Sky, Yes, you are right about the wheel bearings. But did you already know of the product upgrade before it failed? I do not understand the "no appointment" thing at all. I would not go for that either if that is really the way they do it. I find it hard to believe they do not make any appointments? You are correct, Buell will not send you free bearings to put in yourself. No company lets the customer do his own warranty or product upgrade work themselves. Probably a liability thing there? How many miles do you have on your bike to have all those belts,sensors and pulleys,bearings gone bad? Bolts coming off your bike? I can count on one hand how many bolts I have had come loose and fall out in 60,000 miles of Buell riding and that includes the tube frame years! I have trained people work on the Buells I ride, hmmmmm? | ||
| Skyguy |
Daves, Nope no apointment option. I think it is because I don't have a "real Harley" (as was told by an off duty employee one night). I had heard about the bearing recall but the guy I bought the bike from said the wheel bearings had been changed out as well as the kickstand. I missed the whole "Orange seal thing". Guess I should check the kickstand also. As for the product liability thing? I see lots more liability in letting those squirrels touch my bike! I think wheel bearings are simple and don't understand not letting me do it myself. It's not like it is inside the motor or tranny. 20,000 miles on the bike. I think the bolts that were lost were because of the custom paint job. Not a problem anymore though as I locktite everything. Live and learn. BTW I have well over 500,000 miles ridden on a variety of "Jap" bikes and have never had so many issues. Bike is fun as hell so I keep fixing it. Anyone that says that Buells are reliable is wrong though. | ||
| Chellem |
I don't quite understand. You're comparing your time to change tires as a "garage lackey", or almost layman, but later in your post you say that you've been changing tires for years? So, you've had lots of practice. It's understandable your times would be around what a tech time would be. So I'm not sure I understand the rest of your arguement. And sure, one could call a clean bike a "value-added service" if you like, but nothing is free. It may not be delineated on your bill, but it has to be paid for sometime. For example, do you think you're really getting "free shipping" on parts just because there's no actual fee associated with shipping? Of course not. Unless UPS is having a really generous day, the shipper pays for shipping, and since the only way to recoup that fee is to charge someone else, then, uh, you're still paying for shipping. It's in there. It's the same with any "value-added service". It's in there. It has to be. Or else the shop shuts down. It's basic math. I also agree that 3 hours is too long. If you scroll up, you'll see that we billed 1 hour for 2 tires, off the bike I believe. Half an hour a wheel? Hardly criminal. But if the tech had a problem, and it took him 3 hours to do the tire swap, we would still have charged the same price, and eaten the difference. Happens all the time. That's the side of the equation that no one ever seems to see. | ||
| Odinbueller |
"That is a value added service provided by dealers and should not be factored into the book hours required for service." And if we were open 24 hours, I guess someone would be pissed because we didn't offer a 25 hour day. ”As for the product liability thing? I see lots more liability in letting those squirrels touch my bike! I think wheel bearings are simple and don't understand not letting me do it myself. It's not like it is inside the motor or tranny.” Yes, wheel bearing are simple if you do it yourself, and bang them back in. Just pry them out, take a hammer to the new one and get it in. No need for the dealership on this one, unless you can live with buggered bearing housings & oblonged bores in your wheels. You probably do have the experience & tools to do it yourself, but do not make it sound like anyone can do it. Anyone with any experience in the field should know this. "Changing tires is not rocket science, and to pay a dealership more than 30 dollars each for mounting and balancing (wheels off the bike) is a ripoff." No it is not rocket science, and yes, there are some highly priced examples, but do you really believe an extra $5.00 is a rip-off? I guess your time is more valuable than $1.17 per minute. And for the record, I've had to fix more "customer engineered" problems on Buells than factory problems. | ||
| Jerseybuell |
These guys (and gals) on this forum that work for HD/Buell are here for a reason. They care. Yes, of course they are in business but again, they care. Yes, it is expensive to get our Buells serviced at the dealership but hey, we all knew that going into this, didn't we?. This is an expensive passion. Some dealerships are better than others and this place is a great source of knowledge and consists of some really good people (we know who you are looking just to help one another out. There, I am done rambling. |
