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Buell Forum » 1125R Superbike Board » Archive through May 19, 2013 » Lithium-Iron battery the bad points « Previous Next »

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Dennis_c
Posted on Saturday, April 13, 2013 - 01:22 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I was at a local battery shop that I have used for 18 years he would not even sell me a Lithium-Iron battery. Why? He said I ride to much for one. Racing ok he said they are like a bomb when they get over charged. Over charged is something like 14.7+ volts. Then I then called Batterys + ask them about Lithium-Iron battery and if they had one for my bike. And ask about the bomb part the guy said he was in the back room he heard a bang that sounded like a gun and it was a cell phone battery He could not imagin what a MC battery would be like. He said he would not be on the bike.
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Mortbike
Posted on Saturday, April 13, 2013 - 01:33 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I had a Shorai battery in an MV Agusta Brutale I used to have. It saved a lot of weight and worked fine but the battery would get so hot as part of it's normal operation that it made me nervous and I took it out and returned it. Mort
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Dannybuell
Posted on Saturday, April 13, 2013 - 01:39 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Now you got me thinking...

We are told the volt and recently the 787 Lithium Ion batteries troubles have been resolved. Fisker fires, laptop fires...

http://green.autoblog.com/2013/04/13/unsafe-lithiu m-ion-batteries-ev-sales/

http://www.batterypoweronline.com/main/articles/cl eaner-manganese-to-improve-the-safety-and-performa nce-of-li-ion-batteries/
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Dennis_c
Posted on Saturday, April 13, 2013 - 02:44 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

How many times have you seen on the Bad Web where the VR go bad and blow your lights ect.
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Brumbear
Posted on Saturday, April 13, 2013 - 04:20 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I'll let you guys Know I just put one in I am doing my first ride of anydistance with it tomorrow. Wish me luck
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Sprintst
Posted on Saturday, April 13, 2013 - 06:18 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

These batteries have the electronics built in to protect them

http://www.pjsparts.com/catalog/index.php?cPath=65 1&osCsid=073ba7d816517d39a0d89ce535519bc4
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Brumbear
Posted on Saturday, April 13, 2013 - 07:58 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I used a mirai battery I paid $125 shipped and so far in little rides no problems we will see tomorrow
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Levor
Posted on Sunday, April 14, 2013 - 03:00 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

LiPo batteries are safe to use under normal operation but when charged improperly they are absolutely a fire/explosion hazard. It is a very real concept in the RC world where LiPo batteries are used in growing numbers. The difference with these is that they're banged around and often, charged improperly, lending them to a reputation for volatility.

That said, LiPo batteries can very easily spontaneously burst into flames or explode during normal use, but THAT is particularly rare. It is almost ALWAYS due to ignorance in handling the charging and use of these batteries.
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46champ
Posted on Sunday, April 14, 2013 - 06:26 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Lithium batteries have been a problem since the 70's when they put them in ELT's in airplanes. They blew up and they weren't even being charged. Now we have the 787 fiasco I personally do not think there is ever going to be a 100 per cent solution to what is a chemical problem to the basic battery design.
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Rodrob
Posted on Wednesday, April 17, 2013 - 01:25 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Shorai batteries are LiFe which greatly reduces overcharging issues. I ride my Shorai equipped 1125R everyday and have never had a heat issue.
On the other side of the coin, over discharging the battery kills it for good. So if you use an anti theft system and let the bike sit for days, you can ruin the battery. They are not tolerant of being over discharged.
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Ljm
Posted on Wednesday, April 17, 2013 - 02:17 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Hey, Rob,
Do you leave the battery connected on the 1190 between races? Hold the charge or too much drain? Thanks, Larry
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Datsaxman
Posted on Thursday, April 18, 2013 - 03:40 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I put a Shorai in the Concours long distance bike, figuring it was easier duty starting that than one of the Buells...

No problems at all, and that was June 2011.
And 30,000 miles ago. It gets ridden a bit.

saxman
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46champ
Posted on Thursday, April 18, 2013 - 09:56 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Fire In Yamaha Garage Gets Austin MotoGP Round Off To Bumpy Start
Submitted by David Emmett on Thu, 2013-04-18 20:18
in ApriliaHondaYamahaBradley SmithCal CrutchlowJorge LorenzoKarel AbrahamStefan BradlValentino RossiMotoGPAustin, Texas
A fire in the Monster Tech 3 Yamaha garage in the small hours of Thursday morning has caused disruption for several teams at the start of this weekend's Austin round of MotoGP at the Circuit of the Americas. A lithium battery on a motorcycle starter engine appears to have caught fire, after being left on a charger overnight, a common occurrence in the paddock. Fortunately, the sprinkler installation in the garages put out the fire quickly, meaning there was no damage to the race bikes, and most importantly of all, no injury to anyone at the circuit.

This is from Motomatters

I rest my case
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Rodrob
Posted on Thursday, April 18, 2013 - 11:03 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I disconnect the battery on the 1190 between races, mostly due to the battery being undersized for the bike. I leave my street 1125R connected unless I am not gonna ride it for a couple of weeks.
I spoke with Sawn for a while about over discharged batteries today and you actually can bring them back from the dead if you have the Shorai charger and a standard lead acid charger. It's a process, but unless the cells have been damaged, you can get them back into balance most of the time.
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Rodrob
Posted on Thursday, April 18, 2013 - 11:11 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

A lithium battery on a motorcycle starter engine appears to have caught fire, after being left on a charger overnight, a common occurrence in the paddock.

Yes, and a pile of rags with some gas on them can spontaneously combust as well. Stupid behavior can always lead to bad results.
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Zac4mac
Posted on Friday, April 19, 2013 - 09:45 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Rob - so Shawn is still at Shorai?
I need to get in touch with him soon for a battery and to sign a pic of him I got from Michael.

Z
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Rodrob
Posted on Friday, April 19, 2013 - 11:40 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Yes hes still there.
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Robissimo
Posted on Friday, April 19, 2013 - 12:53 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Is racetech@shorai.org a good email to contact him?

I asked him for a recommendation that last november and never got a response.
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Zac4mac
Posted on Friday, April 19, 2013 - 05:08 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Thanks Rob.
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Rodrob
Posted on Friday, April 19, 2013 - 06:01 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

The battery for the 1125r is LFX18L-BS12
For max weight savings on the track u can run
LFX14A2-BS12
But it is small for the street.

(Message edited by Rodrob on April 19, 2013)
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Smit3833
Posted on Sunday, April 28, 2013 - 09:27 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I work in the lithium battery industry. They dont "spontaneously" burst into flames. Different chemestries react differently but a thermal event will only be caused by a short circuit, puncture, overcharge or over temperature. These are all symptoms of poor integration work. Dont blame the chemistry, blame whomever designed the system.
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Kanatuna
Posted on Monday, April 29, 2013 - 04:01 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I have an Alien Motion 12 cell and its remarkable. The bike starts much better than before and it's much much lighter. I only race my 1125 though.
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