| Author | Message | ||
     T_man |
I would like to see this head to head comparison in a magazine test. In fact, I have been waiting for any full test of the 1190RS for quite some time now. Someday I'll just have to buy one and loan it out the Cycle World or Motorcyclist I guess.. | ||
| Froggy |
I don't recall reading any head to heads, but both Cycle World and Motorcyclist have published articles regarding their first hand experiences with riding the 1190RS. | ||
| Rogue4 |
I'm riding the Panigale on the 26th at a demo. It's an R model so the price will be a little closer to the RS but still probably 10k cheaper. I would love to root for the Buell but I'm almost positive The Duc will be better. At $17k for the base model, it will be hard for me to leave the dealership without one. I'm confident that this is my next bike. | ||
| Chessm |
whenever i read an article about the panigale it always makes me smile to see the guiding principles that erik buell designed into his bikes over 10 years ago that manufacturers are just now implementing on their bikes. the panigale probably embodies that the most of all the new bikes out there. | ||
| Hybridmomentspass |
chessm - you say the panigale embodies more than other bikes - what all are you referring to? I know the under engine exhaust, but curious what else I'd also like to see a shootout of the two (and others!), but unfortunately with the price of the bike it'll likely not win. Thats ok, the future bikes will be cheaper and in line price wise | ||
| Jaimec |
Mass Centralization! The underslung exhaust is just a part of that. Frame rigidity: The engine (which you have to admit is pretty damned rigid) IS the frame for all intents and purposes. As for unsprung weight... well... two out of three ain't bad. | ||
| Jdugger |
> As for unsprung weight... well... two out of three ain't bad. Betcha it's within a pound of the 1125r. It's quite a bit a newer bike, after all. | ||
| Chessm |
in general, the out of the box thinking that ducati put into the panigale is what makes it most buell like to me. BMW just made a better japanese liter bike when they designed the S1000RR but ducati left a lot of tradition by the way side to build this bike, like their traditional sportbike ergos that puts the clip ons far from the rider. for the 1st time, their sportbike is actually comfortable to ride for non masochistic riders. this was radical design when the XBs came out and now its pretty much the standard for modern bike ergos e.g. CBR1000, the new monsters, the panigale, etc | ||
| Rodrob |
I'm going to try to find one to demo. I'll let you know how they compare if I do, assuming that they let me do more than take it around the block. It's hard for me to imagine how any bike could be more fun to ride than the 1190RS. Not that the Ducatti isn't amazing, it's just that at some point you reach a level of performance where improvements are constrained by the laws of physics, rider ability and public roads. Ducatti of course has the economics of scale working for them on price. Had I not blown my retirement on the 1190RS, which I rode for a week on the streets before striping it for track use, I would seriously be eyeing that Ducatti. (Message edited by Rodrob on April 18, 2012) | ||
| Jaimec |
I doubt it. Maybe the rear wheel... but the front wheel is still carrying two brake rotors instead of one, and they are mounted at the hub instead of the rim, so the spokes have to be sturdy enough to handle the braking torque without snapping as well as supporting the wheel rim. Unless they made the wheel out of magnesium or carbon fiber it's going to weigh more than just a pound or two than the 1125R front wheel assembly. Almost forgot... the two brake calipers are also part of that unsprung weight! Although the eight-piston caliper on the 1125R probably doesn't weigh that much less than two traditional monoblock calipers so I'll consider that a wash. (Message edited by jaimec on April 18, 2012) | ||
| Duphuckincati |
Other than a dick-waving contest, why does it matter? And it really shouldn't matter in that regard either now that Ducati's are Volkswagons. Who wants to be riding a Volkswagon??!! (Message edited by duphuckincati on April 18, 2012) | ||
| Court |
>>>>Ducati's are Volkswagons. As are Porsches. It's become a bit of a joke at the local Porsche Club gatherings. | ||
| Jaimec |
AND the Bugatti Veyron Supersport! http://www.leftlanenews.com/new-car-buying/bugatti /veyron-16-4/# | ||
| Jdugger |
> I doubt it. Maybe the rear wheel. After all the debates here, I finally just took pictures of stuff hanging on a scale. What I found, compared to a 2007 Honda CBR600RR, is the Buell front wheel system is about 2lbs lighter, and the rear wheel 2-3lbs heavier. It's not terribly scientific, but I'd stand by the numbers as "close", and I can post pictures if you really want. Certainly what it demonstrates is there isn't some dramatic difference as has been claimed in the past. As for the calipers, on my Honda, each caliper with pads weighed about half what the ZTL2 caliper weighed, so it's about a wash. Buell did some really innovative engineering to get the weight down, and then pissed all that effort away by using cheap parts, in particular wheels and that drive pulley which are just inexpensive cast parts. | ||
| Budgolf |
I'll take my new Volkswagon 1198 in Ducati red please. | ||
| Xtreme6669 |
J we are comparing a 1190 to the Duc in this thread... Not a 1125. | ||
| Sprintst |
Assuming the performances are close, the Panigale will win hands down for the price advantage, and the electronics. As I've said before, electronics are the current wave of the future, and that's what the writers will focus on. They will talk about how much easier the bike is to ride for less skilled riders. | ||
| Jdugger |
1190 should be a fair bit lighter than 1125r. Chain drive means no heavy rear spocket, and the wheels are better across the board, no doubt about that. | ||
| Crowley |
Howard Davies of (HRD/Vincent) used the engine to bolt the rest of the bike to, and I'm sure this is not the earliest example of this but as an owner, it's something I'm aware of.........and fuel in the frame wasn't a new idea either. The Arial Arrow/Leader had this idea in the 50's. Velocette also had some novel and often 'copied' ideas about suspension too, rim brakes (although not for ZTL reasons), etc, etc Modern engineers use an evolution of previous ideas to suit their own creations. Very little is new in vehicle design. | ||
| Hootowl |
"I'll take my new Volkswagon 1198 in Ducati red please." As will I. Though I hear the black ones are faster .  | ||
| Crowley |
As I did  If you're under 190lbs, be prepared to revalve and respring to boingy bits. | ||
| Albert666 |
wagen | ||
| Timebandit |
"As I've said before, electronics are the current wave of the future, and that's what the writers will focus on. They will talk about how much easier the bike is to ride for less skilled riders." Maybe one reasons that the writers insist on pimping the electronics that make it easy for less skilled riders is because when it comes to being skilled riders, writers suck. | ||
| Rpm4x4 |
One of the main things I love about motorcycles is the things they dont have, electronics being one of them. I want it simple and effective. One of the main reasons I love Buell. | ||
| Sprintst |
I'm fine with electronics, as long as I have an off switch My last bike had ABS, it was beneficial, but I prefer more control (stoppies r fun) My Vette has amazing electronics, but I still like to turn them off when i want to Regardless of personal preferences, electronics are the focus of the motorcycle world now, and you won't hear the end of the benefits | ||
| Ezblast |
I can't believe you guys don't know the weight specs for the 1190, and are arguing like your even close - you guys need to do your homework first - lol Not my job to educate, however, a good re-reading of Cycle Guide, and a few other publications should give you a hint - heres one more - they had to add over 20 pounds to make it legal for racing - lol - that's 20lbs that a street owner would need not have on their bike. EZ | ||
| Rodrob |
Do not believe everything you read re adding weight and such. A lot of missinfo floating around. | ||
| Dktechguy112 |
"Buell did some really innovative engineering to get the weight down, and then pissed all that effort away by using cheap parts, in particular wheels and that drive pulley which are just inexpensive cast parts." What you meant to say is "Buell did some really innovative engineering to get the weight down, and then harley pissed it away by forcing Buell to compromise. Look at the 1190 RS and tell me Eric used crappy parts. I know the 1190 is expensive, but if harley wasn't in the way the 1125 would have been alot different, for one, it would have been an 1190. Harley couldn't have a buell have more cc's then its precious V-rod. | ||
| Jaimec |
Are they back? I seem to remember them going belly-up DECADES ago... | ||
| Trojan |
they had to add over 20 pounds to make it legal for racing - lol - that's 20lbs that a street owner would need not have on their bike don't confuse what is required under rules to make arbitary race weights with actual road bike weights. Remember you would have to add the weights of all the road going equipment so couldn't just arrive at a kerbside weight by removing the 20lb penalty lump. By the time you add road mufflers, lights. alternators etc etc etc you will have more than 20lbs extra. I'm sure both bikes are absolutely superb machines and a long way above my riding ability or pay grade. However much as I love the EBR I'd buy the Ducati if I had to plump for one over the other, simply because of the dealer network for warranty and servicing etc and the purchase price. Having a great bike in the garage that you may not be able to get parts for isn't fun, and until EBR get a bit bigger and get some international dealers that would always be a big concern. |
