| Author |
Message |
    
Timebandit
| | Posted on Saturday, February 18, 2012 - 05:10 pm: | 
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Following the book:
First step is to use DT2 to determine your flash number. Do it.
Second step is to test the charging system, the battery, the stator, and the voltage regulator before performing any of the the harness tests. Performing the harness tests first makes your test procedure invalid.
The reason these things have to be done in order is to make sure that you start at the beginning, and base all subsequent tests on valid assumptions. It may not seem easy or expedient, but in the long run, it's what works. I'd follow the book. The EDM flow chart starts you off charging and load testing the battery. You need to start there. If it passes then it has you test the vreg using several tests (milliamp draw test, total current draw test, current and voltage output test).
These tests require special equipment, which is probably why you skipped them. Once these tests all pass, then you have to proceed with the stator tests. All this needs to be done -- and PASSED -- before you start monkeying with the harness, because harness testing assumes that everything else is working.
Performing the tests in order is important. That's why there's a flow chart.
If you don't have the necessary test equipment to test the charging system (specifically mentioned in the EDM) then it's worth having a dealer do this for you. That's especially true if the dealer screwed something up. He should be willing to provide free diagnostic work if he buggered up the installation. Put the work on him, and on Harley support, rather than making us do their work for them. If your dealer isn't willing to do these tests, you're going to have to do them yourself or pay another dealer to do them. We need to know these test results before troubleshooting the harness.
BTW -- you didn't answer the question about the order of events. Can't proceed without that information.
The report that your bike is normal with the harness off suggests that they buggered up something. There's no way I'd be trying to fix this myself. I'd be putting this problem back onto the dealer. Tell them the bike works fine without the harness but doesn't work with the harness, and make the dealer and/or Harley fix it. |
Bextreme04
| | Posted on Saturday, February 18, 2012 - 08:48 pm: |
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Ummm if i remember correctly the last time we looked at that diagram the harness will switch to single phase when certain temperature conditions are met and the rpm is UNDER 2000 rpm or OVER 4200 rpm. If the harness is switching at idle and your temps are not over 180* then something is wrong. Check and see if you have AC voltage on pin 30 of the harness and one of the other stator legs while the bike is running and then see if you have continuity between pin 87 and the other end of the wire on the harness to verify the harness isn't the problem. You can also check the back sides of the pins with the relay installed to see what is going on with the harness. With the bike running at idle and cold, make sure you have 12v between 85 and 86 and then check your voltage drop across 30 and 87 and AC voltage from 87 to one of the other stator legs. |
Timebandit
| | Posted on Saturday, February 18, 2012 - 08:54 pm: |
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"Ummm if i remember correctly the last time we looked at that diagram the harness will switch to single phase when certain temperature conditions are met and the rpm is UNDER 2000 rpm or OVER 4200 rpm."
didn't you mean to say single-phase over 2000 or under 4200?
aargh. the disinformation just won't stop. |
Bextreme04
| | Posted on Saturday, February 18, 2012 - 09:26 pm: |
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no i thought we had this conversation before and we both agreed that the table read that it switched under 2000 and over 4200. |
Bextreme04
| | Posted on Saturday, February 18, 2012 - 09:29 pm: |
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http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/290 431/662975.jpg
Upper boundary of lower cooling leg 2000 rpm and lower boundary of upper cooling leg 4200 rpm |
Dktechguy112
| | Posted on Saturday, February 18, 2012 - 10:41 pm: |
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I got it.
My dealer switched two wires on the harness, I swapped them back and all is well.
Note:
someone suggested relay # 896H-1CH-D-001-12VDC as a replacement for our stock charging harness relay.
This is NOT correct. That part number has terminals 85 and 86 reversed, basically it activates at -12V, so you would have to swap the control wires to use it.
The correct pn is:
896H-1CH-D-002-12VDC
http://www.songchuanusa.com/system/pdfs/52/original/896h.pdf?1254413827
look at the bottom of page five (002 is our relay)
(Message edited by dktechguy112 on February 18, 2012) |
Dktechguy112
| | Posted on Saturday, February 18, 2012 - 10:55 pm: |
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Bextreme,
Time bandit is correct, I measured it today.
The relay needs 12V across terminal 85 and 86 to energize. When 12 V is present the relay energizes and the third leg of the stator is connected to the VREG.
There is always 12V on terminal 85, and the ECM controls the relay by grounding terminal 86 to complete the circuit. When the ECM grounds terminal 86 there is a difference of 12V between terminals 85 and 86, which energizes the relay.
When the ECM does not ground terminal 86, there is 12V on terminal 85, but an open on 86, no complete circuit means relay de energized.
The relay energizes to connect the third leg of the stator, that is why if the relay burn out, the charging system will always be using 2 legs.
to summarize:
1. idle: relay energized, terminal 86 of the relay is grounded, all three legs connected
2. 2k to 4.2k rpms: relay not energized, 2 legs connected, terminal 86 is an open, not grounded
3. over 4.2k rpms: relay energized, terminal 86 of the relay is grounded, all three legs connected |
Zac4mac
| | Posted on Sunday, February 19, 2012 - 12:33 pm: |
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OK, so proper functioning of the harness is 3Ø from idle to 2000, single-phase from 2000-4200 and back to 3Ø above 4200.
Got it, sorry for the wrong info earlier.
Z |
Timebandit
| | Posted on Monday, February 20, 2012 - 12:02 pm: |
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"Note:
someone suggested relay # 896H-1CH-D-001-12VDC as a replacement for our stock charging harness relay.
This is NOT correct. That part number has terminals 85 and 86 reversed, basically it activates at -12V, so you would have to swap the control wires to use it. "
OMG that is an EPIC FAIL.
If I were you, I'd find those threads where the bad information came from and post the correct information. Putting in the wrong relay will sabotage your charging system.
Zac, where are you getting those cool greek letters? Holding down the alt key and typing in ASCII codes? |
Zac4mac
| | Posted on Monday, February 20, 2012 - 01:03 pm: |
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Bob, I'm on an old Mac Pro Dual G5, one of the last models built in the USA.
The Option key gives me a bunch of alternate characters and lower case Greek letters.
Option-shift gives Greek letters caps and a few other characters.
I can't remember all of them so I pull up the Character Viewer.
Some don't work tho, the degree symbol used to, now it shows up as ˚(as I suspected, unsupported ASCII)
Sorry for the hijack... back to your regularly scheduled discussion.
Zack |
Dktechguy112
| | Posted on Monday, February 20, 2012 - 05:03 pm: |
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Timebandit,
Using that relay would not activate the third leg of the stator, but it would not damage the charging system because the relay would never energize. |
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