| Author | Message | ||
     Froggy |
Does anyone have any suggestions on how to warm up my bike for easier starts? For the last few days, the ambient temperature has been a high of 25°F, as result, my bike has been very reluctant to start. Last night it was about 9°F when I left work, and I was lucky to get it to fire up after the 15th or so attempt. I do have access to a power outlet at work, so I was thinking of getting something along the lines of tire warmers, then wrapping them around the motor as best as I can. I am thinking that if I pre-heat the bike similar to how they use block heaters on Canadian cars that it can improve the odds of my bike starting without fuss. Once the bike is warmed up, it starts up fine, it is just the first start of the day, or the first start after sitting at work for 8 hours that is a pain. The battery is good, it still is hard to start even with a 20 amp charger connected to give that extra boost. | ||
| Syonyk |
HAH. I grumbled about my cold starts in the past & was told nobody else had trouble. I've yet to find a good solution. Below about 20F I just take the XB9 - it likes starting in the cold. I'm somewhat impressed you got it started at 9F - below 15F or so, mine is very challenging to start before the battery dies. I've never had it not start, but I try not to ride the 1125 in the extreme cold for just that reason. A new battery helped me a bit, but I know for a fact the old one was heavily discharged at least twice, and was at least 3 years old. I've considered running 10W40 instead of 20W50 for the winter, but haven't actually tried it - it certainly seems like the oil being honey-like is causing part of the slow cranking. You can get "stick-on" block heaters - look at tractor supply houses & such. They're either magnetic (which probably wouldn't work) or adhesive, which should work. Just be sure you're clear of the exhaust - the best spots, right on the bottom of the motor, would probably kill the block heater in short order due to the exhaust heat. I'm guessing a block heater would work. You might want to plug the radiator inlets during the day as well (remember to take them out - I'd suggest a tag that goes over the ignition switch). Another thing you could consider is carrying a heavy blanket of some variety (preferably non-flammable!) and a work light with a 100W bulb. When you get to work, wrap the bike up in the blanket & throw the work lamp inside. It should help trap the heat & provide enough to keep the engine warm. You're lucky - you've got access to an outlet. But look for adhesive engine heaters & go from there. Or try a blanket/towels and a shop lamp. | ||
| Froggy |
The weird thing is, I don't recall this happening last winter, it seems like the starter clutch will disengage too fast, and you can hear the start motor still going with the button pressed. The XB and Blast hate starting in the cold even more than both my 1125s, so I don't even bother rolling them out of the garage unless I plan on burying them in a snowbank. Oil, I am currently running 10w-40 Redline synth, I'll be putting Amsoil in at the next fill. I'll look at those stick on heaters, never knew they existed. Thanks! | ||
| Timebandit |
what kind of battery? | ||
| Syonyk |
That's exactly what mine will do in the extreme cold. The starter will turn the motor half a revolution or so, then pop out. I'm thinking the cold oil is delaying the starter gear extending to the ring gear, and it's not making full contact. Or the voltage is too low to keep it fully extended. Sounds like going to 10W40 won't really fix that, though. I think part of the problem is that, as far as I can tell, the "staring shot" of fuel comes in when the starter is pressed. When the starter slips out and you have to trigger the starter a few times in the cold, there's way too much fuel in the intake and it's too rich to light off/it fouls the plugs. At least that's been my experience with other fuel injection motors. One possible option (if this is actually the case) would be to add a fuel injector disconnect switch (and tie it to the headlights too). Cut off the fuel and the headlights, and crank the motor a few times until the starter has freed up enough to fully grab. THEN turn on the fuel & try to start it - you shouldn't have an overly rich mixture at this point. I usually end up cracking the throttle a bit and it lights after cranking for a while, but it's clear the engine is not happy with me for doing this. It sounds pissed when it starts. The stick on heaters are probably the best option. If the oil is not honey-like when you try to crank, it shouldn't do the "pop out of the ring gear" bit, and you should be able to crank and fire normally. I'm surprised your XB doesn't want to start in the cold. Is it a 9 or a 12? I've got an 05 XB9SX, and the thing was more than happy to start in -2F weather last winter. It starts like a puppy in the cold - "We're going to go RIDING? YAY! *putt putt putt putt*" | ||
| Timebandit |
syonyk, manual recommends 20W50 for temps above 40-degrees and 10w40 for temps below that. probably worth using 10w40 if you plan on riding in sub-freezing temps. you guys are changing oil more frequently in winter weather, right? | ||
| Nuts4mc |
a) cold batteries also have issues - maybe it's time for a LiIon...I understand the LiIon batts make their own "heat". b) oil ? - I have used 5-40 Shell Rotella T ( full synthetic...in the blue "bottle")...designed for diesels but works well with our wet clutches....also works well in the motor ( $25 a gal at Walmart) c) buy a welding blanket to throw over the bike after you get to work to hold the heat in. http://www.amazon.com/Tillman-596B-Heavy-Welding-B lanket/dp/B002WPJ04I d) induction heater ...make a metal "dip stick" out of the heating element and plug it in...http://petvetsupply.com/tadehe.html http://www.amazon.com/Kats-15200-Dipstick-Style-He ater/dp/B000BO74DG e) move to a warmer climate | ||
| Syonyk |
Yeah, I really should. The problem is that it'll be 15 degrees one week, and 60 the next. I really don't change my oil that much more frequently in the winter. I just ride daily & try to get some longer trips in when it's a bit warmer to boil the water off. Coming up on a change interval, though. I could probably try some 10W40 & see if it helps. | ||
| Hootowl |
Stick on with epoxy. A bit pricey. http://www.reiffpreheat.com/Motorcycle.htm | ||
| Stirz007 |
A cheap electric blanket set at a low setting is what I use from time to time. I don't run antifreeze, so I usually drain it before the first freeze. Sometimes, though, it will have water in it and a late/early freeze will hit. Thrift store electric blanket (with another regular blanket over that to help keep the heat in) has gotten be through those unexpected "gonna bust my case freak out" times. For you winter riders, it would help keep the engine and battery a bit warmer... | ||
| Timebandit |
> "The battery is good, it still is hard to start even with a 20 amp charger connected to give that extra boost." I've never looked at the boost mode chargers that way. If you're using the 20A charger to boost the cranking power of your battery it might be helpful to review some numbers. Your OEM EastPenn battery is rated for 200 CCA. A 20A boost-mode charger will offer only a 10% boost in cranking power, which isn't much at all. It certainly pales in comparison to a jump, where doubling up with another battery increases the CCA power by 100% to 400 CCA. The 20A boost mode is really for quick-charging the battery after you've depleted it with unsuccessful cranking attempts. If you're concerned that your battery just isn't delivering the goods in really cold weather, maybe one of those portable jumper kits with the accessory battery would help. Or maybe you could strap a big-ass battery to your cargo area. If you're using one of the smaller sexy-tech batteries, pay close attention to it's CCA rating. NB: CCA is not equal to max amps. That kind of battery won't help you if it's CCA rating is less than the OEM battery. | ||
| Hootowl |
Here's some oil filter and battery heaters. http://dieselproducts.com/cgi-bin/online/storepro. php Directly heating the oil vs. the block may make it easier to crank. Again, pretty spendy. A light bulb under your bike cover might make more sense. | ||
| Timebandit |
I have an F-150 that came from the factory with a cold weather kit. It uses a heating element in place of one of the block's freeze plugs, and it has a 120VAC 3-prong cord that hangs up front by the grille. Just plug it in. It heats the block using the coolant, not the oil. It definitely works, though I never use it unless we have subzero temps. A friend of mine in Wisconsin has one of those magnetic/strap on heaters that goes under the oil pan and heats the oil. Works for him. I think directly heating the oil or the coolant to put the heat where you want it (and nowhere else) would be the best way to add heat. This thread reminds me that one Christmas years ago my sedan got stuck in the lot at work and wouldn't start because the temperature had dropped overnight to -20F. I was stuck there until my brother arrived with a kerosene torpedo heater. We pointed it at the front end to thaw it out. Worked great. (Message edited by timebandit on January 05, 2012) | ||
| Alaskacr |
I spent 9 years in AK and have experience with block, pad, and blanket style heaters (on cars and trucks). I'd recommend a small 25 watt pad. Search "oil pan heater pad 24025" and try that. Cheap and easy. You simply use high temp RTV and glue it to the bottom of the engine case. | ||
| 99buellx1 |
I have a cheap magnetic one intended to stick to the oil pan. Would have to attach it to the motor somehow, but some bungee cords would probably work just fine for that. Then it's easily removable, and cheap. | ||
| Timebandit |
My friend who used the magnetic heaters on his truck said that you really did need to use something like straps to fix the heater's position so it wouldn't migrate off-site when the vehicle is driven. Either straps or RTV could help in that regard. I like the idea of strapping the heater on then removing it prior to the ride, as this avoids problems with proximity to the exhaust. The problem is that a strap-on/strap-off mount might not provide as good a thermal junction as using a heatsinking compound or RTV to bond the heating element to the engine case. I'd want to be sure that there's good thermal contact to maximize heat transfer. (Message edited by timebandit on January 05, 2012) | ||
| Alaskacr |
Also I'd consider a small pad heater for the battery. The CCA on that tiny battery have got to be extraordinarily wimpy given its small size. | ||
| Timebandit |
> Also I'd consider a small heater for the battery. Now that's a grrrrrrrrrreat idea. You guys from Alaska have all of this cold weather stuff figured out! I'm going to get one of those for my Suburban. I think warming the battery might help more than warming the block. In your experience, would a 25W pad be too little or too much for a battery in subzero temps? I won't use it unless the temps are subzero (F) and I don't want to boil the battery. Another idea might be to wrap your battery in foam rubber insulation. My Suburban came from the factory like that. The insulation helps it retain heat compared to being naked in the wind. | ||
| Blake |
Try a lower vis oil, see if that solves the problem. If not, a new LiFePO4 battery with significantly greater CCA rating sounds like a winner. The tire warmer is inspired thinking too. You're something special riding in such cold temperatures. I once did so out of necessity; it was during the final two Winters of college in Dallas. No heated gear, no windshield, and about 40 miles one way on the highway in sub-freezing temps to visit my GF. | ||
| Jdugger |
Tire warmer won't work well. It will burn up unless stretched (such as on a tire) and wants to cook around 200F. | ||
| Froggy |
Here is a video I took of it tonight at about 31°F | ||
| Ratbuell |
+1 on the battery heater blanket. Also, look into a block heater like my diesel has. It's a heating element that is immersed in the coolant. Now the diesel has the advantage of having a freeze plug for it to be installed in, but you may be able to put a fitting in a radiator hose that would have the same effect. All the heater does on my diesel is radiant-heat the coolant; stick a heater into your cooling system and you'll get the same result. 110v heater, I want to say 60W or something like that. | ||
| Blake |
It's sure turning over easy enough! I was thinking that you were having trouble even getting it to crank. Not so. Sounds like an engine that needs more fuel for the cold start. Have you tried performing the spark plug de-fouling routine prior to starting? It's a long-shot, but might help some. Some ether into the intake might help. | ||
| Timebandit |
the earlier description made it sound like you had cranking problems. I didn't watch your video, but analyzing a crank-no-start condition is not rocket science. it's compression, spark, or fuel delivery. you've got a custom fuel map, right? | ||
| Buellmojo |
I point my Reddy Heater at the bike for a while, at a reasonable distance of course, and then it will start. If I do not do this on the colder days, the bike will not start at all. I have tried a few different methods that others have suggested, but warming the bike with the heater, prior to starting, has been the only method that has worked consistently for my 1125. | ||
| Blake |
I agree with your observation concerning the starter disengaging prematurely. Do you have the bike in neutral AND the clutch pulled in fully? If not, give that a try; if so, try other combinations. | ||
| 1324 |
Do you have a Cali can on that bike? My buddy's 1125CR has extreme issues restarting when hot due to vapor lock originating from the Cali can. Your video of that reminds me of this. Did you try cracking the throttle a bit? The second thing that comes to mind is a VW that I built back in college (no laughing, please). During the winter, the only way to start the car was ether injection due to the timing advance I was running. It would crank and crank and crank. The fuel's volatility wasn't high enough to light off with the advanced timing. Read here: http://www.kellyracingfuels.com/rvp.html My gut is either the non-stock ECM's timing tables are too aggressive for normal fuels at low temperatures....OR...the higher volatility fuel combined with your Cali can is making your life difficult. 31F really isn't cold enough to give you an issue. With the exception of my carb'd SV650, I've never had an issue starting my bikes down to 15F. I rode for three hours the other day with a HIGH of 20F - the S3 started up instantly and ran like a raped ape... | ||
| 1324 |
...forgot to ask in the post... Your ECM map...has the cold start mapping been altered? I've heard of tuners doing this. Naturally, the denser air will need fuel enrichment to light off. Of course, this partially brings me back to your timing, as well (see above). | ||
| No_rice |
i know your not suppose to... but when its cold i give it just the littlest bit of throttle. then when it pops it fires instead of sputtering out. but that thing isnt cranking as fast as it should be thats for sure. an 1125 takes alot of speed to fire. even a bit slow and its not enough usually unless its nice and warm out. you should try firing them up when its 10-20 below zero. i have to borrow a vehicle with jumpercables to get enough extra juice flowing for long enough. heres a few. http://www.padheaters.com/ and some cheapies http://www.amazon.com/Kats-24100-Watt-Universal-He ater/dp/B000I8VL3O i do think a warmer battery would help, but wamr oil would crank easier, and obviously is nicer to the motor internals. | ||
| No_rice |
the only thing id worry about with trying to do a coolant heater, is they have to be placed correctly to work right. and youd just be taking trying to fit one on an 1125. |
