| Author | Message | ||
     Cycledoc59 |
My XB12Ss was miserable in town/parking lots. Solved by Dobeck's Techlusion unit. So I was not real surprised to find my '081125R also had crappy low-speed fueling issues. Switching between the original ECM and race ECM made no difference in the unpleasant herky-jerkies.. It made low speed traffic and parking lot maneuvers a very unpleasant experience. Either jerk and hop, or run along at above 3K. Almost worst than my '02 Cyclone was. Yes, I had already checked all settings/sensors, etc, and read all the threads I could find before ordering a unit. I installed the EJK unit, set for now at factory settings. It's fully adjustable, while the Techlusion had limits. http://www.electronicjetkit.com/pricebid.asp?pid=1 07 Short ride made me happy! Runs as well now at 2K as it did before at 3K. Money well spent....Before it didn't want high gear till about 60mph, now it's happy at 50, and fuel mileage is still at low 40's. | ||
| D_adams |
That's funny, both race calibrations I got from Erik Buell Racing work very well below 2500 rpm, even in 6th gear @ 35 mph. Pretty sure that was about 2100 rpm in 6th. (Message edited by d_adams on July 26, 2011) | ||
| Rogue_biker |
I've been planning on fixing that issue with my '081125R too. She doesn't like running smoothly below 3,500 RPM either. | ||
| Cycledoc59 |
Well, not having another 1125 around for comparison, all I know is what I read, and how this one runs... I have no idea of the linage of this "race only" ECM, as it was in the bike when purchased. Perhaps all those from Erik Buell Racing, or a particular tuning on one, and a bike would run great. If it were a carby bike, I'd go up a couple of pilot jet sizes, and maybe raise the needle a touch, if that helps to explain how it runs... After more riding today, it's much better, but here's hoping a little tweaking of the EJK will smooth it even more. Any comments or suggestions are welcome. | ||
| Dnlink |
Interesting, I can see one of these in my future. Nice website with interactive demo. Cycledoc59, I'm assuming easy install? Where/how did you mount the controller? One other question on adjustment range. Is it possible to go to damaging levels of Lean/Rich with this unit? Or is it pretty dummy(me) proof? | ||
| Thefleshrocket |
You won't risk blowing your motor by going too rich. You might foul your plugs, blow black smoke out the muffler, and cause your oil to thin but catastrophic engine failure is pretty much impossible. Now too lean is another story--that can certainly cause a burned piston or worse. Just make small changes in your fueling and avoid going leaner unless you have an exhaust gas analyzer to tell you that the engine is running too rich at a given throttle/rpm/load setting. | ||
| Cycledoc59 |
None of the various "intercept" controllers can subtract fuel, but only add fuel. They all connect between the injector and the ECM and work by sending adjustable, but erroneous signals to the ECM. Thus fooling the ECM into adding more fuel as needed for proper AF ratios... Install takes maybe 40 mins, since the air box has to be removed. The only difficult part is accessing the little "trigger" on each injector connector, so the connector can be pulled off. Then the unit is connected - piggyback style, between the injector and original cable. There is one ground wire to connect, which can be hooked up any place there's a grounded bolt. Then the controller is placed under the seat for easy access. (It's the size of 3 stacked credit cards) I've installed Dobeck's earlier Techlusion unit on a couple of bikes of my own, and a couple of customer bikes. The only thing that makes them bike-specific is the type of hook-up. I moved one from a BMW to a Harley by just cutting off the connectors and using squeeze connectors to wire it into the Harley.... http://www.dobeckperformance.com/ Dobeck sells the same EJK controllers labeled/sold under a number of brand names, here's one: http://www.jardineproducts.com/products/productID/ 1149 | ||
| Rob_l |
Cycledoc59, how much is the EJK? | ||
| Cycledoc59 |
The EJK, direct from Dobeck, is sold via auction format. I imagine that's because many units are sold under brand names such as Jardine, thus there's a need not to step on the toes of those sellers... My bid of $190 was rejected, and $225 was suggested. Seemed reasonable to me. Note that the Jardine-labeled one is $310. I knew that ECM's can be had from Erik Buell Racing, and/or programmed, but I don't race or do track-days and such. I just want a properly running bike to ride. After installation of an EJK, you can certainly put the bike on a Dyno and fine-tune it. Plus, if/when you sell the bike it's a nice farkle to leave in place, or pull off and sell. By the way, a Power Commander for the 1125, which works exactly the same way, is $369. | ||
| Kicka666 |
By the way, a Power Commander for the 1125, which works exactly the same way, is $369. The Power commander allows you to add & subtract fuel @ every 250RPMS, set TPS & cylinder trim values ect, which I am pretty sure the EJK is not able to do, so they are quite different from each other. | ||
| Cycledoc59 |
Kicka666 you are correct; my bad. Didn't do my homework.... http://www.techlusion.com/TFI/tfivspowercommander. asp | ||
| Faceyman |
Just for clarification, do you recommend one over the other, the EJK controller or the Power Commander as I would like to be rid of the so called "herky-jerky movements" at lower RPM's? | ||
| Cycledoc59 |
Well, as you see below, the Power Commander has complex parameters, as does ECMspy. Good stuff if you need exactness, but the EJK is just fine for my needs. I just want a good running ride; no desire for max hp, race performance, etc... "The NEW Power Commander V Power Commander V Product Introduction The New Power Commander V is loaded with tons of new features. It is compatible with 2009 and newer bike models. Below you will find some Power Commander V features. Reduced size from PCIIIusb (less than half of the size of PCIII) USB powered from computer (9 volt adapter is no longer needed for programming) 2 position map switching function built in (map switch not included) Gear input (allows for map adjustment based on gear and speed) Analog input (allows user to install any 0-5 volt sensor and build an adjustment table based on its input such as boost or temperature) With gear position input connected the PCV is capable of allowing each cylinder to be mapped individually and for each gear (for example: on a 4 cylinder bike with a six speed transmission there could be up to 24 separate fuel tables). Unit has a -100/+250% fuel change range (up from -100/+100%). This allows more adjustment range for 8 injector sportbikes 10 throttle position columns (up from 9 on PCIIIusb) Enhanced “accel pump” utility (increased adjustment and sensitivity ranges)" | ||
| Zac4mac |
Wow, where was all this cool stuff 3 years ago when Loretta was a friggin pop-corn machine??? I tried Dave's software with decent success then bought an early Erik Buell Racing "open intake/exhaust race ECM". Like a fairy-tale, happily everafter... Z | ||
| Mountainstorm |
I sold my Jardine piggyback as soon as I could. It was useless junk. The only way to properly fuel the bike is with a map in the ECM. Everything else is ridiculous. But as long as you're happy with it. I've got something like 25K miles on my Race ECM. I can ride up a steep gravel drive at 1l miles per hour without any issue. The amount of control at low RPM is fantastic. I cannot in anyway corroborate your "herky jerky" experience with the Race ECM to my own long term experience with the same. | ||
| Cycledoc59 |
Well, as I said earlier, I have no idea of the pedigree of the "race only" stamped ECM in the bike. I did swap it out for the stock one, and symptoms were the same. So far, rideability has been greatly improved by the EJK. When you had the Jardine unit in place, were the O2 sensors disconnected? That's a must for "piggybacks" to work.... Otherwise the ECM will negate the effect of the EJK. I've set up two bikes on Dynos that had "piggybacks" installed, and they adjusted the fuel ratios just fine.... I may soon put this 1125 on a Dyno and see how the ratios look. | ||
| Cycledoc59 |
Hey, now that I think of it, are O2 sensors supposed to be disconnected with a "race" ECM in place? If so, I never thought to try that, thinking programing took those into account...(?) | ||
| Froggy |
No. Without O2 sensors, how does the bike make changes to the AFV? I also have no jerkiness with two Erik Buell Racing Race ECMs on my bikes. One with stock can, another with a KEDA RT-1. | ||
| Jdugger |
> No. Without O2 sensors, how does the bike make changes to the AFV? You are wrong for exactly the right reason. | ||
| Andros |
My friends 1125 is super jerky with the ebr ecm as well. So is mine with the dutch one. | ||
| Jdugger |
> My friends 1125 is super jerky with the ebr ecm as well. I noticed it the other day on my race bike at low RPMs, as I was doing parade laps with new level-1 riders. Problem went away as soon as I did the track a gear lower than I would normally. Makes sense -- I was going quite a bit slower. These bikes don't like being lugged around. Keep the revs around 5-7k and she's silky smooth. | ||
| Kicka666 |
If I wanted to ride a bike around @ 3k RPM I would of bought a Hardley Davidson, but I would prefer to have a frontal labotomy. These bike are designed to rev, not to be laboured around at low RPM's. | ||
| Budgolf |
TPS reset. Let it idle for about 10 min. | ||
| Blake |
>>> Hey, now that I think of it, are O2 sensors supposed to be disconnected with a "race" ECM in place? No. You need the O2 sensors to ensure proper closed-loop operation (air/fuel mixture) and as Froggy states, to set the appropriate AFV for open loop operation. Not sure know what Jdugger is meaning. | ||
| Cycledoc59 |
I'm happy now; and bike is happy now. The only glitch left is the normal transition at about 2K when I believe the ignition changes from retarded to advanced, and is not really a problem. Adding the EJK was a successful and worthwhile addition. Riding around town/parking lots/traffic at 3K rpm wasn't working well. The EPA said the 1125R had to run poorly at low speed to pass emission standards. It's mine now, and it runs smoothly, as it should.... To recap: EJK is $225, installation is plug and play, taking about 30 mins. It's a piggyback unit that is fully adjustable to add fuel as needed to obtain proper air-fuel ratios throughout the rpm band. | ||
| Xoptimizedrsx |
yup, what Froggy and Blake said... No correction to get it scaled to your bike is gets a bit messy... Closed loop loves the feedback and gets the ego corrections based on multiple sensors dependent on year and availability. Take one out of the equation and its limping around like a fresh metal splinter in a bare foot. It works but you know its not seeing its potential till you get the splinter out. Thats why Putting the 1125R new ECM on an older XB is the cat meow. You get Baro, map and two working O2's.a lot of work but doable... | ||
| Cycledoc59 |
Well, my XB12Ss runs just fine; 800 miles to rally in PA last week w/a load of camping gear. Since it was a BMW rally, I figured I should ride an "airhead". Stupid hot out there, but the bike and I were happy...gets about 50mpg. And after installing a Techlusion unit, it doesn't bunny-hop in town. 1125R is happy now too: Erik Buell Racing race ECM w/O2 sensors disconnected, EJK hooked up. Avg of 42mpg, much easier to coax out of sharp turns, as stumble is gone, and don't have to be over 60mph to be smooth on the hwy in 6th. I'm actually a little surprised at how good it runs now; more improvement that expected.. After owning/riding/working on dozens of bikes over many years, I'm picky about the way they run, and about comfort. Bike has CNC top triple clamp, Apex adj. clip-on's, Ully foot pegs, and a custom seat. | ||
| Jdugger |
> Not sure know what Jdugger is meaning. Mine uses a fixed map. There are no O2 sensors, and the ECM does not learn. Rather common on race bikes. | ||
| Wraithwrider |
Interesting as I fitted my EJK today and it has 4 'piggyback' connections, 2 for injectors and 2 for O2 sensors that remain connected? Peter | ||
| Cycledoc59 |
Yes, it is interesting. There are different versions; mine is, I believe, an 3.0 version. It has no provision for 02 sensor connections. I just disconnected my sensors, and at the moment, still have all the EJK setting at original settings. The bike runs just fine now, and is showing 45mpg at 110 miles on this tank of 87 octane gas...yes, 87. It's at tad rough below about 2.5k, but is good enough. With the power available, and the huge throttle bodies, it ain't bad! |
