| Author | Message | ||
     Whippetlovr |
I have decided to purchase an ECM from E B R for my 09 R, since I also just bought a new pipe (Jardine). However, my decision to purchase a new ECM has been called into question. I read on here how the ECM makes the bike run cooler, smoother (less boggy), increased hp, etc, and I'm getting it no matter what. I told the person that (based on what I've read here) that the bikes run lean, and will run leaner with the slip on pipe, and the ECM will correct this as well. He told me that my bike doesn't run lean, if it did my stock pipe would be turning white (its not). He said that the ECM might make my bike run hotter. And that it will void the warranty. And that it will cause undue stress to the engine (aka it might 'blow up') etc etc etc. That the stock ECM is Japanese, and the replacement isn't, so THAT will be a problem. That the stock engine was designed for use with the stock ECM only, that Bombardier would never support the use of the E B R ECM, its not a valid 'upgrade' to help the bike run better, it's just being sold to make a quick buck, etc. Being as I'm not mechanically inclined, I wasn't able to really defend ALL the arguments I was hearing against the ECM, so I just walked away. So, please people- can anyone answer/defend/clarify any of the points above? WILL it void my warranty, make my bike run hot, blow up my engine, DOES the bike run lean naturally (and is this dependent on altitude- I'm on Ontario) and will the ECM correct this etc. And other pros/cons of the ECM would be great as well. Thanks in advance!!! | ||
| D_adams |
Whoever it was that told you all that was feeding you a LOT of BS. The stock ecm runs lean, even with the stock exhaust. It gets worse when you add an aftermarket pipe. Erik Buell Racing's ecm will correct that. It will run cooler, smoother and will probably get better fuel mileage, mine does all of those, with much more power to boot. Ignore whoever it was, get the ecm. As far as voiding the warranty, just swap out the ecm and pipe if you need warranty stuff done if you're worried about it. | ||
| Whippetlovr |
Thanks D-adams... I said ALL of that (including better gas mileage), he doesn't believe it. He said IF something went wrong with my bike (i.e. engine calves), I wouldn't be able to just take out the E B R ECM and put in the stock one and bring it in, as they'd hook their computer up to read the codes, and the stock ECM, as expected, would be blank. So they'd know that I had swapped out the ECM. If something else, non ECM related, goes wrong, i.e. clutch weep for instance, I'd switch it out just to be safe before I brought it to the dealer Said person is actually a mechanic so like I said, I'm not able to answer to his 'cons' all that well, to defend my purchase | ||
| Sprintst |
Wow, okay, many things wrong with what you were told. #1 - what does Bombardier have to do with ANYTHING? They don't own Buell. Harley is providing your warranty. The stock engine isn't "designed" for the ECM, the ECM is designed for the engine. And if you can't trust Erik BUELL to correctly program a replacement ECM, I can't help you. Pull the Erik Buell Racing ECM and replace it with the factory when you take the bike in for service. Yes, you won't have the error codes recorded, that could be an issue. Also, legally they have to be able to prove a aftermarket part caused the failure AFAS Japanese vs non, it's my understanding that the Erik Buell Racing ECM is simply a reprogrammed stock ECM (Message edited by sprintst on March 24, 2011) | ||
| Nillaice |
the ECM's are the same electrical 'brick' it's just the fuel mapping is different in a more correct way. just like the race ECM that buell sold for the XB's. since it was sold by the manufactrer, it would not void the warranty. but Erik Buell Racing is not part of HD, so they can cop out of submitting the warranty claim. but they still get paid for the same as you would pay out of pocket for the warranty claim. i guess they just like to see people pay them out of pocket. maybe they get paid on commission, just like the guys on the sales floor ... buy the Erik Buell Racing ecm and keep your stocker for warranty work. | ||
| Echo15 |
I have an Erik Buell Racing ecm in my Uly. I was having electrical issues the the HD mechanics (I have an extended warranty, hence taking it to HD) couln't cure. THEY put the Erik Buell Racing ecm as a fix. I would hope that they wouldn't honor the warranty over a fix that they used. | ||
| Pmjolly |
I put a Jardine on my '08 1125R with the stock ECM. It did throw some codes after a while. It can not fully compensate for the Jardine. I put the race ECM on it, and it has been fine ever since. It runs a whole lot smoother, stronger, and cooler with the race ECM. As far as his comment that it would be turning white if lean, get this. I was idling my bike in the driveway at home after washing it one evening. This was before the race ECM, but with the Jardine. I was drying off the bodywork myself, while letting the engine dry itself. It was getting dark outside. I noticed something glowing under the bodywork. I wish now I had taken a picture. My rear header pipe was glowing orange! The front was also, but the rear was more visible from being in the dark under the bodywork. Since the change to the race ECM, I have never seen an orange hot header from idling. | ||
| Echo15 |
Virtually every bike manufactured today is set up to run lean in order to pass EPA. They do NOT run well that lean. The Erik Buell Racing ecm (and pretty much every other aftermarket ecm) correct this too lean mix. | ||
| D_adams |
Magnuson-Moss warranty act says NO, it will NOT void the warranty. Aftermarket parts will not void your warranty unless it is the actual cause of damage to your bike. Think of all those "screaming eagle" parts they throw at the barcoloungers they sell. How many had their warranties voided because of those "go fast" parts. Not many. You will be fine, get the ecm from Erik Buell Racing. | ||
| Marcodesade |
I have the Erik Buell Racing ECM, with the Jardine can. It runs great --- far better than with the stock ECM, and even better than with Jardine's ProTune 3 fueling card (which is also a pretty good option). There are a couple side effects that aren't that great: My R is an 08, and I have to be really careful with the charging system as the fans are on more. Runs cooler, soaks up more juice. I just don't run high beams any more, and it's OK. I actually LOST fuel economy, with similar riding habits, in the amount of about 5-10%. I have no explanation for this. Still, the bike sounds better, accelerates more smoothly, and never pops on decel any more . . . | ||
| Court |
Wow. Entertaining ........ But , based on a quick scan ( while in a taxi in Manhattan) ......I'd say about 30% of this information is accurate. Read carefully ...... But proceed with metered caution and get more information. | ||
| D_adams |
http://www.impalaclub.com/naisso/magmoss.htm That site has a fairly easy to read and understand page on it. | ||
| Whippetlovr |
Court- do you mean that the opinions/information I was told, as I posted in my original post, is 30% accurate? Or that people's replies to that post are only 30% accurate? Are you saying I should proceed with caution in getting the ECM? Or with respect to the 'possible' warranty issue? Your post is freaking me out LOL | ||
| Court |
>>>Your post is freaking me out LOL Relax. Take a deep breath. I've a legal brief to present (my employer is wanting me to work this morning  ) and I'll respond to some of this. In the meantime . . don't be hiring any lawyers. | ||
| Rpm4x4 |
The Erik Buell Racing ecm is very safe. I dont know if it even adds any peak HP. The only thing I notice is how much smoother it is in the lower rpm range. A stronger low rpm range makes my cornering smoother and my riding better. My bike just runs fantastic and I average 1 more MPG. There is really no downside. | ||
| Court |
Briefly . . . You may buy the ECM with total confidence. Please write the folks at Erik Buell Racing in advance, and provide DETAILS of the configuration in which the ECM will be used. This allows them to insure proper programming. CAVEAT: They are dealing with about 1,000 queued e-mails. Be sure to include a meaningful SUBJECT LINE (something other than "hey, I'm confused") in your e-mail and provide ALL your contact information.. The good news is that business is good; the bad news is that business is good. You may pursue these boards, cull opinions of others with similarly configured bikes and extrapolate to get an idea of what you can expect. I have no knowledge since I'm pleased as a pig in poop with my bike in its stock configuration and long ago surrendered my need for speed in my street bike. I do suspect, based on the things I・ve read, that I・ll add the Erik Buell Racing ECM this summer. With regard to the legal opinions being bantered about . . . I agree with EVERYTHING Dean said. The Impala Club article provides a good overview of the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act of 1975. One salient part . . . I'd suggest someone read carefully . . .
An example of such a "fraudulent, deceptive" act would be a person modifying a product, having a problem, and then returning it to the "prior to modification" state when going to the dealer. It actually (technically speaking) doesn't become a crime until someone asks you if you've made any changes and you say "no". It・s important, as has been suggested earlier in this thread, that YOU not become the one committing the fraudulent practice. Most folks are keen enough to also understand that it doesn't take a rocket scientist to see past this and it's just plain dishonest. The Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act of 1975 was neither intended, nor does it act, to serve as a cover for illegal activities by consumers. Also . . on a strictly practical matter. If . . let's assume for a minute you meet the criteria and you decide to pursue resolution (you really should have attended the class I taught in Alternative Dispute Resolution last night) through the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act of 1975 . . . you DO need to understand that it's going to be a lengthy (figure 1-3 years) and expensive (the legal fees are for your account, for the most part) process. The act is good for what it was intended for. By the way . . . if you can find a case where it has EVER been applied to a motorcycle (I・m sure it has, but I・ve never been able in Westlaw or any of my Journals to find one), I'd really enjoy reading the case. Bottom line is . . . and I'll leave you with what is strictly my personal opinion. I never get performance advice and legal advice from the same person. My Attorney, Ms. Anne Golden, charges $680 per hour. At that rate, two things are certain. If I fight I stand a good chance of prevailing. But . . it also makes me think quite seriously about spending 2 hours talking to her about suing someone for $1,000. Bottom line . . . write the good folks at Buell, listen to the experience of others and choose . . based on your information and criteria. . . . or I'll sue you. P.S. - That's entirely my PERSONAL OPINION. Others will disagree. . . . That・s cool. What else is new on the Internet? | ||
| Froggy |
Whippetlovr, by any chance was this person that told you how bad the ECM was a vendor of a competitive product? The only reason I can think of for someone to like like that is to try and get you to buy their garbage. | ||
| Court |
. . . or an Attorney? | ||
| Hootowl |
If you put an aftermarket exhaust on your bike, you NEED to either get the E-B-R ECM, or have yours remapped to compensate. You could buy some dyno/tuning time, but why reinvent the wheel? The E-B-R ECM will already be mapped for your exhaust. | ||
| Hootowl |
Your friend is probably used to dealing with cars that have MAF sensors. An ECM in a car can fairly easily adjust to changes because of the array of sensor data is has available to it. Bikes, not so much. | ||
| Whippetlovr |
Froggy/Court- nope not an attorney or anyone who sells anything. Just someone I have a close relationship with... who will also be installing said components on my bike. He is an aircraft and heavy diesel mechanic and knows a fair bit about bikes (he's ridden Suzuki and Yamaha sportbikes for 20+ years). He put a full Graves exhaust on his bike and bought a power commander for it, and the bike ran like hell. He had to bring it to a race shop to get tuned, and the thing still stalls every once in a while for no good reason, and it runs so rich that his tail light is perpetually brown. Perhaps that is colouring his judgement as well. Court- I emailed Erik Buell Racing and they know its an R with a Jardine pipe, so it will be the appropriate ECM (Message edited by whippetlovr on March 24, 2011) | ||
| Court |
You'll be delighted. | ||
| D_adams |
Whew! Glad I got it right at least this one time. | ||
| Kinder |
In car land new maps can make a car run hotter. Especially turbo cars. Cars run leaner than stock when modified with exhaust systems and cold air intakes unless tuned for it. I'm thinking this guy has read some sport modified mags and lurked on some forums for his 'knowledge.' I'll admit to thinking my car knowledge applies to alot bike stuff but there are still things I know don't apply. TBH I am surprised at better fuel economy out of a EBC ECM as more power = more fuel. But I have seen it happen (rarely) in cars. As for the warranty thing... if the aftermarket part (even if installed at a dealer and sold by a dealer) is the cause of the failure then it will not be covered under warranty. The ECM controls fueling. That affects pretty much the entire engine so yea... As for why dealers don't want to process warranty claims.. they get paid less for them. They cannot claim their full hourly rate with them. Usually max $60/hr. So better to have customer pay. Also some unscrupulous ones charge out both. They tell the customer its not covered but still file a claim to collect on the warranty! Bastards!! I caught our local store trying that on me. | ||
| Whippetlovr |
Thanks guys. And Court- thanks for the excellent reply (I'm not freaking out any more). ECM has officially been bought and paid for and ships today. I'm going to guess that that Warranty Act is for the US only. I wonder what its equivalent is up here in da north. But yeah, point taken about swapping out the ECM when something goes wrong... | ||
| Hootowl |
If his bike runs like crap with the power commander, I suggest he either find a new dynotuner, or dump the power commander. | ||
| Court |
By the way . . . . and TOTALLY off topic . . the mention of the variance between "car science" and "motorcycle science" is quite interesting. Erik Buell spoke at length (they may soon be a YouTube video) about the development of the brakes for the 1190RS. The may look similar (think eggs and golf balls) the the 1125R brakes but there have been HUGE changes and improvements. He talked about the frustration of trying to get data and information within the motorcycle engineering world . . it simply didn't exist. There were not DOING what other folks had done. They ended up going to NASCAR . . . and listening to folks look at their brakes in amazement and tell them things like "wait a minute? . . what are you doing? . . that'll never work with that brake" and going on to explain some things that may otherwise have never been known. It's going to be a REAL interesting year . . . this 2011. EDIT: Corrected "gold balls" to "golf balls" (Message edited by court on March 24, 2011) | ||
| Jdugger |
> The may look similar (think eggs and gold balls) the the 1125R > brakes but there have been HUGE changes and improvements. Who'da thunk it?  | ||
| Jrfitzny |
I've been having some Low Voltage problems since I've installed the Erik Buell Racing ECM in my '08 R. It's been shutting down at lights, and just yesterday it shut down on the highway. Still investigating the reason... | ||
| Sprintst |
I would think that restarting the bike would use more juice than letting it idle |
