| Author | Message | ||
     Palmer |
 well.... wow  found this in the online version of the biggest italian newspaper. here's the gallery: http://www.repubblica.it/motori/motori/2010/09/22/ foto/sembra_un_ufo_ma_una_peugeot_da_record-729218 2/1/ the small article claims that this electric car was built in order to break some acceleration records. And tehy did it in the montherey track! | ||
| Hughlysses |
Sweet! You should post on Erik Buell Racing's Facebook page too. | ||
| Palmer |
I tagged Erik on facebook. I'll TAG Erikbuellracingtoo! | ||
| Jdugger |
Very cool indeed. I wonder just how much heat that set up can handle (and no doubt generates stopping a *car*)? | ||
| Radioelasais |
maybe, for sure it is not going to break any deceleration record .... bauhahahahah  | ||
| Palmer |
haha, this car should weight at least 2 1/2 tons  but... is there any advantage in a perimetral brake in a car? | ||
| S21125r |
I would think the advantages would be the same for a car - less unsprung weight and less weight overall - although probably not as proportionally significant. Does seem like those rotors will take some serious abuse trying to stop that much weight though. | ||
| Jdugger |
Yea, physics are the same. I can't imagine the ZTL will perform that well in this application though unless the car is incredibly light. The ZTL is designed for bringing somewhere around 600-700lbs to a stop in a hurry. I can't imagine this car only weighs 2,000lbs-ish with driver, which is roughly where the weight would need to be for two front ZTLs and a little bit of help from the rear ZTLs to get the job done comparably to a bike. And, let's not forget, bikes brake for crap compared to a sports car like a well-set-up Miata. I *suspect* they went with the ZTL because it was "good enough" to stop the car after acceleration runs, and was light compared to typical sports car braking systems. | ||
| Reepicheep |
Ah! That explains it! I posted another thread wondering what the heck is up, the electric car part explains it all... Since it is a modern electric, perhaps it will use regenerative braking, so the majority of the heat will avoided, the kinetic energy will be converted back to electric. So that rotor probably does some very low speed stopping, gives some "road feel", and is there for emergency backup, but in general doesn't have to dissipate massive heat from slowing down a big car. Meanwhile, you massively reduce rotational weight and unsprung mass. Brilliant! | ||
| Palmer |
And someone had the brilliant idea to close Buell Motorcycle Company! FAIL | ||
| Jng1226 |
I thought the biggest advantage of the ZTL-concept was specifically to motorcycles: 1. One rotor instead of 2 is the main weight savings 2. Mounting directly to the rim reduces mounting hardware, further reducing weight to a lesser degree than a single rotor As applied to a car, the single rotor per wheel advantage doesn't exist since cars already follow this convention. Also, positioning the rotor further out from the hub than a traditional car rotor increases the inertial effect of the weight of the rotor, actually hampering acceleration and deceleration. It certainly looks cool though and very futuristic, which is my take on why they chose it. One of the designers is very likely a Buell fan. | ||
| Davegess |
the real weight savings was achieved because the forces the spokes and hub transmit are reduced dramatically so the wheel is hugely lighter as a result. Add in the other savings and it is great. Not sure the same would be true on a car. | ||
| Jng1226 |
the wheel is hugely lighter as a result Is this really true? I've changed wheels on my XB9SX, 1125R and MV Agusta F4 1000R, and the Brembo Ultralight wheels (forged aluminum) from the MV feel about 3 pounds lighter than the Buell front wheels. In fact, the Brembo Ultralights are only 1.2 pound heavier each than the BST Carbon Fiber wheels. | ||
| Dannybuell |
Jdugger - Your post about 'bikes brake for crap compared to a sports car' reminded me of the one question I missed on my MC endorsement test 41 years ago. 'The braking distance of a motorcycle is shorter or longer than a car?' I was wrong when I answered shorter. I would imagine that is still true today. | ||
| Froggy |
100% true. Other rim designs were in the works from Buell that were even lighter, just natural evolution. | ||
| Jdugger |
JNG, Those wheels on your MV are lighter because they are better quality wheels. If you applied the same forged manufacturing process to a ZTL designed wheel, it could be even lighter. | ||
| Gemini |
as my co-worker and i were talking, that must be a pain in the a$$ to remove and install that rim setup up on and off the car. | ||
| Freight_dog |
Funny thing I noticed. The spoke pattern mirrors that of Buell wheels. Looks to me like they actually designed the wheel around the rotor. Another thing, as narrow as it is, they obviously have little interest in its ability to corner. (Message edited by Freight_dog on September 22, 2010) | ||
| Anonymous |
Yes, the unsprung weight is much lighter with this system on a bike. Even on a low cost wheel (as needed to sell sub-$10,000 XB9 bikes profitably) with spokes thicker than needed, the Buell system beat everyone. A premium forged magnesium version would kill them. You need to remember that the weight of the calipers, the caliper mounts on the fork lower, the caliper bolts and 50% of the brake lines filled with fluid count as unsprung weight. The difference is a LOT. | ||
| Jng1226 |
Thanks Anony - that clears up my question nicely. | ||
| Dannybuell |
Anon posted "A premium forged magnesium version would kill them. " http://www.EBRacing.com/shop/product144.html YOU DID!!! Congratulations on you racing successes!!! | ||
| Jdugger |
That's for a cast wheel. Forged is a whole 'nuther story. Let's put it into perspective. My 16.5"x5.75 Forged Mg rear wheel weighs less than the cast front you linked! Actually, I think the pulley weighs more than the wheel, to be honest. Good forged Mg wheels are almost incredibly light. So light you just can't believe it. | ||
| Dannybuell |
OOps! | ||
| Steeleagle |
So...is this some of the technology Erik Buell Racing can't use due to technology agreements with HD? Is Peugeot paying any royalties to anybody for use of this patented technology, or are they exempt from any penalties for unauthorized use...or am I completely off base in even wondering? | ||
| Jdugger |
warning: I'm not a lawyer, but: You can use anything you want when you buy it legitimately from the entity holding the patent. If they started *making* ZTL2, it's a different story, but as long as they are just sourcing parts, it's fine. | ||
| Blake |
>>> Let's put it into perspective. My 16.5"x5.75 Forged Mg rear wheel weighs less than the cast front you linked! Jim, I have a VERY tough time believing that. In fact I don't believe it. The hub on a rear wheel is MASSIVE. The Buell front ZTL wheel's hub is virtually nonexistent. Forging saves some weight, but it is not miraculous. Castings these days are pretty darn impressive. | ||
| Jdugger |
> Jim, I have a VERY tough time believing that. If not true, they are shockingly close. I'd put money on it. Remember, I'm comparing a top-of-the-mark Marchesini 16.5 Forged Mg to a 17" Buell cast Mg front. I'll weigh them next time I'm servicing rotors... | ||
| Palmer |
Doesn't sound strange to anyone that peuget invested a a very large amount of money in this car ( take a look at the gallery I posted, the overall quality is top) and they choose to use the buell system and the buell parts, and as someone noticed, they probably build up a carbon fiber rim ( or, it looks like carbon fiber) around it. Well, IMO, that's a little strange! | ||
| Dannybuell |
why is it strange? It's PR thats all. picture#7 or #10 Ouch after a few minutes! | ||
| Blake |
I'll take your money!  | ||
| Jdugger |
> I'll take your money! I'm just plain curious now. I'll find a low weight scale and measure here in a couple of weeks when I get the chance... |
