| Author | Message | ||
     Redbuelljunkie |
High beams during the day *can* be a problem. My riding instructors (MSF and Total Control), who had to face students on course with high beams blasting in their faces, did not like it, and had us switch to lowbeams (despite what the MSF or DMV literature says). That sounds perfectly reasonable, but I'm afraid you misunderstood their intention. If you had to stand outside and look directly at oncoming motorcycles all day which are part of a safety class on a closed course you would probably prefer to have them use their low beams too. It was due to the special circumstances of the class (bike after bike after bike facing them repeatedly)- not because high beams are an issue on the road. Go back and ask these instructors whether they think you should use high beams while riding in the real world- the answer will be an unequivocal "yes". The Motorcyclist article recommends against flashing high beams to get motorists' attention because it confuses them- it's not saying high beams should not be on during the daytime. Where in the world have people gotten the idea that daytime high beam use is an issue? This is the first time in my riding career that I have ever heard this bunk. Maybe people are confusing cars with bikes- you can be blinding with automotive high beams during the day, but not a motorcycle. I'm honestly floored by this conversation. I sincerely hope the 1125s affected by this issue find a solution- not being able to use your high beams regularly during daylight is a safety issue and totally unacceptable. (Message edited by redbuelljunkie on August 21, 2010) | ||
| Pariah |
Redbuell, I don't want to divert the thread too much. But let me reiterate that I said only that high beams can be a problem, not that they are necessarily so. Actually, I did ask my instructors about high beam use, since I had believed that high beams should be on during the day, and they are against it. I am a pretty thorough guy, you see...  Also, here is the specific wording from Catterson's article: Motorcycle safety experts have long advocated running your high beam during daylight hours. Their thinking is, the brighter the light, the better you'll be seen. And if you've got a sealed-beam headlamp (or an older 6-volt system), by all means do so. But if you've got a late-model bike with a halogen bulb (or two), you might want to reconsider that. Headlights are so bright nowadays that they can be blinding even before the sun sets. So the spirit of the article is really against daytime high beam use, at least for late-model bikes... (Message edited by pariah on August 21, 2010) | ||
| Zac4mac |
Every day I ride thru a congested area that often is clogged by a fender-bender. I flip on ALL my lights as I go thru it. On Loretta, that means HID lo-beams and OEM hi-beams. On the Uly, I have hi/lo and a pair of driving lights. all 4 being PIAA Ultra-Whites. Loretta, an 08, has had NO trouble running all 4 headlight bulbs AND heated grips thru 2 Winters. Hope y'all with troubles get them fixed. Zack | ||
| Metalrabbit |
I think the high beam deal is a moot point since in 9,000+ miles my 09 burned a stator and I could count the use of my high beams on one hand,, briefly at that. I completely understand Baggh's situation, I'm in the same boat. I have a bike with an imaginary "Dead End" sign on it and it don't make you very comfortable knowing that it could go again any time. My only comfort is that the H-D shop I bought it from does have great service and really does care about my concerns,, so I at least have something positive to hang on to. Ok, cue the song,,, (Message edited by metalrabbit on August 21, 2010) | ||
| Jdugger |
> 4. demand that HD fix the problems with the bike. That, your moaning and $2 will buy a cup of coffee. Seriously, why I put up with the issues are because 1) well, I don't really have them because I do go lugging the motor around, and 2) because I'd rather pay some money, fix the bike, and move on. I did have my original 08 in the dealer a decent bit. I did pay full price for the first one. Moan, moan, moan, yea, yea, heard it all before and even felt your pain. But, You will be a lot happier if you just got fix the damn thing and quit whining about it. There's parts delays on EVERYTHING. You are just waisting the riding season waiting on HD. Do what the one dude did, pay the $200 or whatever to rewind the stator and move on. At this point, I doubt HD would honor the warranty on two of my bikes because of the way I ride them. I've been waiting forever for a mirror/blinker for the one I have left in street trim. Permanent backorder. You won't see me in the garland dealer much, but those guys know me well. I bought 3 bikes from them, and a truck full of parts from Smoot. You will, however, see me at ECR. You should be at the track enjoying a track day today. RideSmart is doing a double-header this weekend. | ||
| Baggh |
metalrabbit... PM me and I'll send you some info... we can be cry babies together about actually trying to get a real deal fix. Jdugger... some people dont have the spare cash to keep 3 bikes up and running (I have 2 and the tires keep my wallet moaning), let alone have the jingle to use them as track toys (and the added expense of full gear, tire warmers, paying for track time, etc). Orrr have $200+ laying around to pay for 3rd party fixes that may end up not even being fixes. I didn't buy a bike to self-fund HD R&D. So you appear to be living in La La Land (I say that with all due respect). I have track bud friends that dont have kids... dudes are constantly getting in crazy gear, gauntlets, levers, $$$$ in track riding enhancing mods, etc etc etc. Thats super cool and in less than a year I'll be an empty nester and more than likely jump right in too. Unfortunately if I did have some extra cash laying around I would prob say exactly what you are saying. Pay it and be done... cause i can tell you that would be a helluva lot easier than what I am currently doing... and that is what HD would luv too... for us to find our own fixes and just kinda go away. After all is said and done... and this isn't debatable in my mind... can we find a fix, can we fix them on our own, can we live with the problems, can I never use my high beam again... yes to all. The point is... we shouldn't have to. | ||
| Baggh |
Jdugger... another thought. Many (or most) people that buy bikes just want to ride. Many do not share the enthusiasm or zeal for getting into the nuts and bolts of the bikes, don't have the passion to become mod junkies, may not have the internet to learn about fixes, or have the means to fund their own R&D dept or purchase "maybe" fixes. Many do enjoy all the mods and learning the nuts and bolts but are not mechanically inclined at all. My track day buddy... he has a Ducati 1098S... spent thousands on track day mods.. but he has no idea what the difference between a metric and standard wrench is. He just learned how to put air in his tires... hah. I am mechanically inclined BUT still... I purchased a bike to ride it... not be frustrated, stressed, be left stranded in the middle of nowhere, etc. I'd wager that most bought their bikes for the same reason. once again... not all riders cause some are uber mechanical enthusiasts that find it a fun challenge to correct what HD got wrong but... you get the idea | ||
| Froggy |
I am curious to what this "fix" you keep secretly talking about is. I usually ride with the high beams on and don't have any issues with the voltage. I also run GPS, XM antenna, my phone, and other electrical goodies including heated gear in the winter, but my bike is fine. While I haven't done the math to calculate the bikes electrical consumption and my accessories on top of it, I doubt I am using more power than the bike can put out, even at low RPMs. No dead batteries here. | ||
| Redbuelljunkie |
Pariah (and anybody else), do this for me- next time you find yourself blinded in your car by a motorcycle using its high beams during the day- post up. I'd really like to know just how much of an issue it is- because it has never happened to me and I've been operating vehicles on public roads since 1983. I'd be very keen on hearing why a "safety" instructor doesn't believe in the use of daytime high beams for motorcycles- it goes against all logic and most every riding instruction manual I've ever read. Very strange. (Message edited by redbuelljunkie on August 21, 2010) | ||
| Jdugger |
bag, I'm not interested in your strawman posture regarding my position on things. I'm telling you there are two choices: 1. Whine at HD and ** MAYBE ** get a fix. 2. Rewind the stator and be done with it, then go ride. Or, buy a crashed out bike wholesale, salvage the stator, and part it. Instead of spending your time here, if you did that you might actually make the nut+ it took to buy the salvage. I want the clip-ons and trees if you do that. | ||
| Jdugger |
BTW, there's a red CR in level one at the track today. The guy looks like he's having a lot of fun and enjoying his bike to me... | ||
| Dannybuell |
Jdugger - Baggh: It's a lot easier to overlook all kinds of issues when your income is greater than your expenses. Having quality expectations and the HD dealer culture seems to be a part of the problem. If you have been there and done that it's a lot easier the second time around. It's also a great privilege to have a spare, my S1 has already comforted me in the CR's absence at the dealer for a stator. | ||
| Jdugger |
> and the added expense of full gear, BTW, if you aren't riding in full gear on the street, you aren't far off from learning just how expensive that move can be... The bike itself has always been the smallest portion of the expense of this sport. (Message edited by jdugger on August 21, 2010) | ||
| Baggh |
Jdugger... once again... I say this with all due respect... I was simply pointing out that it appears you did what some people may be unable to do... throw money at the problem. That process doesn't help those in the slightest that may not be able or willing (out of principle) to go that route. As I said.. maybe many do not have computers and\or aren't computer savvy enough to even post on this site... So trying to find a HD fix benefits many... well.. all actually. I say this as tactfully as I can... I am not interested in how you think I should spend my money. I would rather spend $200 to buy my son a new iPhone, take him to Six Flags, etc than pay for a part that "may" be a fix... a part I shouldn't have to purchase. Once again... I am simply attempting to help here. I have been called a whiner, cry baby, stupid (for wanting to use my High Beams by day)... all unwarranted and certainly these attacks have zero upside in helping anybody. I am far from a cry baby btw... not to list my credentials but I served in Desert Storm as a Field Artillery Crewmember and have done many other activities that one would consider far from the complaining\baby camp. What I am though is principled. The principle here is that HD should be accountable for fixing our bikes. I still do not understand the disagreement here. Having said that. I think this discussion has run its course with me. I am putting enough time and energy dealing with HD trying to get a fix... this discussion is really beginning to make me think "what am I trying to help for?" Then I remember... I'm doing it for the principle. Froggy... I am not trying to be secret... and its not a fix... but could lead to one. I just see no reason in aiding those that seemingly do not want help and even attack me for trying to offer. So I decided to offer the info to people that wanted it via PM. Hopefully I get a fix and\or a resolution that everybody (myself and HD) is happy with. I'm going to take this as far as I possibly can. Ultimately what do I think is going to happen?... nothing... but if I dont try then I KNOW nothing will happen and I'll be forced to pay for known issues after my warranty expires... or get sucked into purchasing the extended warranty for obvious reasons. I will keep those who requested the info in the loop. Other than that... enjoy your bikes. I know that I am going to try to... long country ride this afternoon with my son... oh... and I'll be using my High Beam the entire trip (during the day for those that this isnt already obvious). | ||
| Jdugger |
Bag, I didn't throw money at the problem. I realized BEFORE I bought a bike the bike itself was a small part of the overall cost of participating in motorcycling. Blowing your whole wad on the bike and leaving nothing for tires, gas, proper leathers and protective equipment, and so on, is short sighted. | ||
| Jdugger |
> The principle here is that HD should be accountable for fixing our bikes. I still do not understand the disagreement here. Btw, you won't get disagreement from me. But should and reality are a long way off in this world, and that's what I think you miss. HD should fix your bike. Reality is, your warranty will probably expire before they do. | ||
| Stimbrell |
As a side note, running with high beams on all the time, here in the UK, would get you a ticket, never realised you guys in the US could do this. | ||
| Baggh |
Jdugger... thanks for seemingly agreeing that HD should fix our bikes... that is all I am trying to do. If they don't... they don't... but I at least want to try rather than throw my hands up saying "whats the use?!?!"... but I appreciate the +1. As far as blowing my whole wad. I didn't mean to give that impression. I have plenty of gear, mods, a set of Pilot Road 2's sitting in my closet ready to put on, extra plastics, etc etc etc. I understand and have foresight when making purchases. But as far as repair cost expectations... well... I also have an '08 XB12S that I bought brand new... I have had ZERO issues with that bike... its bullet proof... I had many other bikes in the past with basically zero break-down maintenance cost. Like i said in a previous post... if I wanted a project bike with X amount of maintenance cost or "fixing" cost I would have purchased a bag of bolts from craigslist. I did not want or expect to have a "project" bike when I went brand new. Many of the issues with the 1125 are no big deal... par for the course... the bike is an awesome unique mean machine that I am proud to ride around on... I luv the Buells (or I wouldn't have 2 of them)... my issue is... ehhh... I think people know what my issue is. | ||
| Baggh |
I started making posts within this "The Buell and I are Parting Ways..." thread. The comments I made are along this topic so I figured others who felt the same... or are also frustrated with their bikes would be predominately chiming in. Its not like I posted my thoughts in "The 1125 is AWESOME" type threads... then I would understand all the flames and disagreements. btw.. I made plenty of posts in the "1125 is AWESOME!" type topics... because it is an incredible machine. I dig everything about Buell the person, company, his bikes, and am looking forward to his next adventure... BUT... I am simply not happy that HD does not have a fix for an ongoing issue. | ||
| Dannybuell |
An unresolved warranty claim has no expiration date. In 1998 I did a class action-product liability database that documented the companies liability for each claimant and then and disbursed $260 million to satisfy those claims. You can't just walk away from a liability by closing the subsidiary that caused it. I am not a lawyer but I sure know how they think in these circumstances. If there is no meaningful response from HD in the near future a class action lawsuit may be coming. I can smell it brewing. | ||
| Father_of_an_era |
I too wonder what the issue here is. If people want to choose to use the high beams on their bikes, then the bike should be able to accommodate that. I myself have had no issues with my bike after the original harness was replaced at about 1200 miles. I now have over 8300 miles on the bike and it is doing great (knock on wood). It is (or should be) the responsibility of the bike manufacturer to fix and repair any and all known issues on these production bikes that do not relay to improper care of these bikes. Harley should absolutely appreciate the problems that many of us have experienced and (just on moral aptitude) should do their best to make things right. Now, don't get me wrong, I absolutely love my bike and have experienced very few problems but I can't in good conscience express any verbal discontent for anyone who is only attempting to give helpful information that may or may not help others with their motorcycle issues. The fact is, a simple resolution may be a solution to the electrical issues that some of you are having. Hang in their Baggh, I'm with ya bra! | ||
| Baggh |
Thank you Father_of_an_era... very well put and I can't express enough how much your encouragement and understanding is appreciated. I am sure there are many others who appreciate your words as well. Dannybuell... we'll see how the mop flops | ||
| Roadrash1 |
Baggh, First of all, Thank you very much for your service. I do wonder why HD and all the dealers would not want to provide Buell owners with the best customer service experience known to man. It could lead to more sales for the HD line, if anyone were sitting on the fence about a future purchase. What many Buell owners, who have not had good service seem to be saying is, there is no way they would ever buy an HD product. It's just not a good way to do business! -michael | ||
| Freight_dog |
If there is no meaningful response from HD in the near future a class action lawsuit may be coming. I can smell it brewing. Count me in Danny. It is completely unbelievable to me that HD would come up with a charging system "fix" that leaves the system unable to support the basic electrical equipment under normal riding conditions! At best that is basic negligence. I just want the situation resolved properly. In the absence of an effective fix, we need to force HD to do the right thing. If that means a lawsuit, so be it. | ||
| Baggh |
Finally... some like minded riders are starting to chime in. Roadrash1- You're welcome  I have exchanged a couple emails with Danny... Freight_dog... part of the message I was sending people deal with this exact topic... class action. I have spoken to a lawyer last week. He has all of my information regarding my bike and its services, warranty (non) repairs, etc. He feels that we have a classic Lemon Law case that is a straight forward win. I don't have all of the details yet BUT... the key to all of this is to ensure you have all of your warranty work printouts... call Harley Customer Service and alert them to your bikes problems. Call them once a week if need be to stay on it. Start a paper trail. there are other details but in short... we do not have to accept a long list of "preventive measures" offered by Harley such as: dont use your High Beams, keep the bike at 5K RPMs, charge your bike every night, etc etc etc etc. What we can accept is nothing less than a proper fix. We need to work together... if we do... we will give 'em one helluva run for their money. Some additional details need worked out... ... start your paper trail in the mean time. Keep records etc. Lets roll. | ||
| Baggh |
I can't emphasize enough... Call customer service and tell them your problem, what has been done to your bike to date and request a fix. Start that paper trail. My trail is started... I have tried all of Harley's recommendations and worked with them to resolve the issue. My charging system is still jacked up. HD has a few more weeks to iron out this issue... then... well... you know. I will keep those who requested info in the loop to the developments. If I get a fix or other resolution I will let you know. Get that paper trail going if you haven't already... I ultimately do not know what is going to happen but I do know what will happen if we do nothing... ... ... nothing. | ||
| Baggh |
HD Customer Service #... To contact the Motor Company directly, please write: Harley-Davidson Customer Care 3700 W. Juneau Avenue Milwaukee, WI 53208 To speak with a Harley-Davidson customer care representative please call (414) 343-4056. Our normal hours of operation are Monday through Friday 8:00 a.m. - 6:00 p.m. Central Standard Time (CST). Sorry, we're unable to receive e-mail at this time. | ||
| Freight_dog |
Good to know Baggh. I will pm my email and contact HD with my concerns Monday. Thanks. I had my first stator quit at 800 miles. Now at 3700 with 35W HIDs, LED tail lights, and the running lights converted to turn signals, I have definitely reduced the electrical demand on the system. There is no excuse for my battery to discharge at a simple stoplight (not to mention the bike burning the hell out of my leg). Inexcusable! | ||
| Baggh |
Good deal Freight_dog I turned down the brightness on my console and, of course, that didn't help either. Good luck with your call Monday. Hopefully something good comes out of it. | ||
| Metalrabbit |
Jeez, Now I'm having dreams where my 09 is dying,, How f'ed up is that??!! |
