| Author | Message | ||
     Reducati |
some one..anyone? or can you send it as an email attachment and send it to me D dot Doody at Comcast dot Net thanks. | ||
| Reindog |
curve_carver is entitled to his opinions and is welcome to express them. What is not welcome is the tone in which he expresses them. | ||
| Buell_junkie86 |
Sometimes I just cant.... Open a separate thread to whine and complain. Don't do it in one people spent lots of time on and are excited to discuss the results that have been provided. It is always interesting to hear each individuals knowledge and take what you want out of it. Each person usually knows a little something that others dont. When these ideas are all combined, they can make a great place for everybody to learn. (Purpose of forums) | ||
| Froggy |
Unfortunately there isn't enough time for that. They crammed everything into one weekend. Dris has the luxury to do this day after day so his results will be different. | ||
| Fresnobuell |
HMF result? See FMF or Jardine in the shootout. I don't see why it would be substantially different. | ||
| D_adams |
Reducati --pm sent | ||
| Reducati |
Dean, called, left a voice mail...anytime you get a chance give me a call...left my # on your voicemail. thanks in advance for your help!!! | ||
| Cravacor |
Man, I would be interested to see what the stock exhaust can do with the race map or the final map. | ||
| Al_lighton |
We did NOT bump the AFV up and down. We locked the AFV at 99 and tuned the individual fuel cells for the different RPMS in the WOT column. We were using the $750 programmable Erik Buell Racing ECM, and tuning with PCM, not a stock ECM with tunerpro. The base "race" map that was the starting point was the Erik Buell Racing FMF map, which looked like a pretty decent start for most of the pipes. This was NOT a complete tune, because it was only WOT testing. WOT testing is good for characterizing the max performance that a muffler can provide, and is good for characterizing the frequency (RPM) response of a pipe (i.e., what RPMs it enhances scavenging, what RPMs it doesn't). We weren't doing drivability testing, and we weren't doing full map development. We were merely showing what each pipe was capable of at WOT. Could each pipes curve be enhanced by further WOT tuning, by changing timing or other parameters? Likely. But I'd be willing to be that the differences would not be particularly big. Al | ||
| Court |
>>>>>I'm kind of lost I scanned through most of what has been posted. I cherish the above line as perhaps the only accurate one. I'm fortunate enough to have met all those who participated in this test. They, Dris included, could comprise the A Team of Buell tuning. Both Al Lighton, Jim Higgins and Terry Parsley have enough records and amazing feats under their belts to establish their credibility. I could care less about the exhausts, the noise they make or the horsepower. I'm more of an academician and was more interested in Al's Test Procedure . . how he documented it and how he executed it. He always impresses me with his methodic approach. My opinion is that your opinion, and you are darn sure entitled to it, has no merit and that you risk substantial harm to Dris's business. Court | ||
| Fresnobuell |
how he documented it and how he executed it. He always impresses me with his methodic approach. Very true. I read the whole thing last night at about midnight (paying for it today!) Anyone who does more than look at the charts and tables will realize why it took so long to compile. Again, well done Team. | ||
| Bishopjb1124 |
Look a squirrel  Damn ADD kicked in again. If you are not happy with the testing procedures get off your ass and do it your way then and post a report that is as thorough as what Al has done. Then post the results for everyone to tear apart. As my dad used to tell me shit or get off the pot. Jimmy | ||
| Court |
>>>As my dad used to tell me shit or get off the pot. I like your Dad. | ||
| Socoken |
Wow, its very easy to see that a TON of work went into that report. Im stunned that some of those pipes make as much power as they did. Im also gonna save my pennies for a race ECM! THANKS! | ||
| Buell_junkie86 |
I'm kinda stuck between the Barker and FMF slip on. I like that the Barker starts out with more torque right off the get go, and is consistently higher than the FMF. What I'm wondering is if the Barker exhaust will run just as good with Erik Buell Racing ecm specifically designed for it???? The reason I like the FMF is for the Looks of the can and the fit of the midpipe to the engine. I also really like the sound. My brother and I both have a pair of 1125cr's and are buying one of the two tonight! Any recommendations??? would we notice a difference between the two. We both also have XB12's with Drummers and Al's custom ECM maps and they are insane! | ||
| Blk09r |
Al, Nice job on the report. You're bound to get a few who are going to sit back and criticize. Know that the vast majority of us appreciate all the hard work that went into it. I know I will be able to make a much better informed decision when I buy an exhaust. Don't forget....No good deed goes unpunished. | ||
| Xoptimizedrsx |
Overall this is how I look at this. its done in the way as to what most people are going to use. Pump gas sure race gas and a few other settings as well as some EGT numbers would have been nice but given what most will have and run its just a wot run pipe test not a true all weekend full out tuning to peek values per pipe. It's a simple few ecms test to show things change when pipes change. IMO picking a pipe is based on where you ride. The rpms you ride in. With that said will this test work for everyone? No, but it gets you a starting point and a place to hear most of them. Dont look into it too deep with blazing mad eyes. If for some reason you dont like the test results put up the time gather a bunch of pipes and test yourself. When I was looking for a pipe for the XB9 &12 bikes of mine. I did my own test with 8 different pipes all out of pocket. It took a couple months to complete due to other bikes needed to get on the dyno for tuning and I hate carbs now even more let me say. gas all over the floor and my fingers. arghhh. back to pipes. I ended up even modifying a few pipes to see what it did. some got better some worse. I ended up with a XBRR pipe on the xb12 and a drummer for my riding style and noise level for the xb9. Like I said its a basic shootout test and comparison with a race ecm with Pump fuel changes only on one version. Its not a full out re-tune of the ecm. It a guide to see some basic wot test on various pipes. I would like to see some 1/4 ,1/2, 3/4 throttle runs per pipe. that would help judge the full characteristics of a pipe to fit the rider. something like an xb9 jardine pipe has great numbers at WOT but a bad hole in the center where I ride so that pipe is not good for me at 1/4 and 1/2 throttle. again.. dont dig too deep peeps its a wot Basic testing. Al did an awesome Job with time constraints and equipment on hand for these basic test. Thanks Al for the hard work... Mike (Message edited by xoptimizedrsx on July 14, 2010) | ||
| Kenm123t |
Thanks for your efforts Al You and many others have the Badweb Buell helpful and inquisitive nature. Its why Buells are so much fun | ||
| Curve_carver |
xoptimizedrsx seems to understand what the shootout consisted of. Wot pulls. There is so many variables and the surface was just scratched. Most people will fall into buying a pipe and ebr pump gas tune . Every bike will need different fueling. So for the people that cannot or won't tune and go that Pump gas route . They should look at the untuned race ecm results and expect those . And not get caught up in the max tuned ecm numbers. But as stated in the report the bikes were running leaner than they desired and they all needed fuel added. Similiar to what I posted earlier and as easyrider / dris has also stated and documented. I understand why they tuned the way they did now. It makes more sense now. Most people will fall into the ebr pump gas and a pipe. And those are the results they should carefully look at and not get caught up in the bigger numbers as those would require extensive extra tuning. Thanks al I understand more now on why you went about it in the ways you did. It's more consumer friendly and then you did a semi tuned side of it as well for guys like me.  | ||
| Dannybuell |
Testosterone, It's all good. Fun Stuff Huh! | ||
| Kc10_fe |
Geez man if you guys want to go really really fast join the Air Force and come hang with me at .86M/620MPH. Isnt it obvious that this was for the consumer not the racer. MOAR POWER MOAR NOIZE!!!!!11!1 | ||
| D_adams |
Just from a personal observation, when Erik Buell Racing sells an ECM with a specific pipe tune, they _probably_ spent a few days worth of dyno time and more in datalogging to get optimum results for just that one pipe. They do it for each one, and I would guess they've done as much on a dyno as anyone else out there. I watched the drummer get tweaked for almost 5 hours straight. Neat stuff to watch while in progress. | ||
| Xoptimizedrsx |
yep it's all good... Its a pumpgas thing  | ||
| Curve_carver |
Lol | ||
| Kicka666 |
Each to there own, I have tried the FMF pump gas Ecm with my FMF slipon I purchased to compare to the custom tune that I already had that was tuned to suit my bike & riding style. I hated the Pump gas ecm, no engine braking at all, less bottom end & midrange also bought up a shitload of engine codes, but thats my opinion. You cant just buy a pipe&ecm combo & expect it to be perfect without aditional tuning again my opinion, it would be like me putting a powercommander on my Ricey & downloading a fuel map of the web & hey presto perfect fuel ratio, but this post has seemed to strayed off the topic of the shootout & Im not helping. Once again thanks Al for all your work. | ||
| Crazyhawk99 |
I am not taking sides. Heated/passionate debates are one thing, but name calling is bad form to say the least. | ||
| Crazyhawk99 |
Al, Where are the static dB numbers posted? Please point me in the right direction. Thanks! | ||
| Easyrider |
Cravacor, The stock exhaust makes 141 HP on and 113 NM of Torque on the rear wheel. Not a bad product with a good tune, less low end Torque but not bad look here :  This was january 2009 with the fully programmable Buell Race ECM. | ||
| Easyrider |
Court, I only get stimmuleted to work on my stage II kit and my Stage III kit. We test the stage II kit in Bonneville Then I will complete it and sell it as a bolt on KIT with ECM. I will also develop a new exhaust for the California rules and make a tune for it, so whatever people say we need to go on. and we will do so, just watch the Bonneville results... | ||
| Rombi |
So with this new data is there anyone that is miffed that there might be a better pipe and want to unload your old, tired, ugly aftermarket pipe? I am just poor boy, from a poor family looking to shed some pounds and want to hear my bike. I know it is a long shot but you never know. |
