| Author | Message | ||
     Fresnobuell |
I am not impressed with his calling of the race. They need to find someone else That's for damn sure. He is really bad. HOw about ol Jason Pridmore, he was way more insightful about the racing and racers during the couple races he called. | ||
| Madav8tr |
"Nope, when we dynoed and weighed them at Barber, the Buell had a vastly superior power to weight ratio to us (2.6xlbs/hp Buell), (2.8xlbs/hp Hacking), (3.02lbs/hp Davies). At that time, the Buell made 21 more hp than our Aprilia on the same dyno within 30 mins of each other. We made FOUR hp more than Hackings Kawasaki and weighed 20lbs more. The Buell does not handle well in long corners and has serious brake fade issues and poor aerodynamics...the sucker accelerates like the Millenium Falcon. We turned a faster lap time than Danny and everyone else (cept Herrin) yesterday, until we dropped out with an ignition problem. There is real lap time parity here." Seems Buells extra CC's are an advantage. " Well, if you are gonna go to the WERA board and copy/paste something, why not do so with John Ulrich's comments regarding the Buell? He doesn't seem to have a problem with the extra displacement and neither do his riders. Rocky Stargel, who the quote above originated from, is a helluva guy but just becuase the Buell dynoed better than his Aprillia doesn't mean much in the grand scheme of things. | ||
| Swordsman |
Poor aerodynamics? Seriously? I thought that was one of the things Buell did the most testing and development on? ~SM | ||
| Ducdood9 |
Motorcycles in general are very un aerodynamic. If you look at the aero leaders the Hayabusa and the ZX1400 you can see the Buell could not come close. There is a crack between the top fairing and the bike. Most of the bike is naked with odd angles and pieces here and there but the pods are likely a another minus where most radiators are behind the wheel theses are porously hanging out to scoop up air. The top piece is aero shaped but very very very very very very large compared to most superbikes. | ||
| Ducdood9 |
But the race fairing should clan it all up? | ||
| P_squared |
If you look at the aero leaders the Hayabusa and the ZX1400 you can see the Buell could not come close. Is that statement based on fact or opinion? Wonder why Buell hyped their CFD work on this bike so much if it's as "aerodynamic as a brick"? Just a guess on my part, but I think the bike is a bit more aerodynamic than you believe it is Ducdood. | ||
| Ducdood9 |
I should have said on Factory trim. I'm guessing the race fairing makes it competitive. But a pod did blow off in a race. | ||
| Slaughter |
That radiator installation and mounting on Eslick's bike that came off on national television was NOT Factory - nor was the bodywork. | ||
| Swordsman |
Well, scoops by their very nature are very un-aerodynamic... rather than shedding air, they trap it. But yeah, hard to say for sure without actual wind tunnel data. ~SM | ||
| P_squared |
But a pod did blow off in a race. I'm guessing you are referring to the Daytona 200 & Danny's bike? If so, you realize it wasn't a stock Buell piece, right? You realize it was an aftermarket pod setup that changed the mounting of both the pod & rad, right? As to the issue of aerodynamics in factory trim, again, I think it's more aero than you're giving it credit for. For the market segment, I'm willing to bet it's probably pretty competitive in the aerodynamics. Of course I don't have facts to back up that opinion, but I'm willing to take the bet based on how much CFD work went into it. | ||
| Court |
>>>If you look at the aero leaders the Hayabusa and the ZX1400 you can see the Buell could not come close Neither of the bikes you named comes close to the Buell aerodynamic numbers which were gathered in a wind tunnel in Wichita, KS. If you have facts, great . . .lay'em out. But I'm calling bullshit. While you are looking around look at what bodywork the fast Hayabusa's at Bonneville are running.  | ||
| Ducdood9 |
Looks like a hayabusa in race trim minus lights and vents you can tell its a Busa. I doubt we are talking about the same thing. You don't have to be a brain surgeon to recognize aerodynamics when the STOCK bikes are so different. If your talking about the buell race fairing well thats a LONG way away from the stock Buell setup. Or was the test you speak of done with the bikes sideways against the wind? | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
Please supply actual drag coefficients. | ||
| Ducdood9 |
I don't have numbers. All I have is common sense. I'm not on the inside like Court. I do know the most aerodynamic shape found in nature is a rain drop. Think about it.  ]  Now imagine you the wind.... | ||
| Ponti1 |
What you're forgetting is the rider on the bike. Nobody is accusing the Hayabusa of being a brick, but I would wager the wide upper fairing on the 1125R is better at streamlining the rider than the skinny upper on the Suzuki. | ||
| 2kx1 |
I always thought that the rider on a bike made the aerodynamics worse and I am sure it would have an effect on the aerodynamics on any bike. Now imagine a rider on either bike above in a full race tuck and tell me which is hidden the most from the airstream. | ||
| Ponti1 |
I always thought that the rider on a bike made the aerodynamics worse and I am sure it would have an effect on the aerodynamics on any bike. Now imagine a rider on either bike above in a full race tuck and tell me which is hidden the most from the airstream. Not sure which bike you are favoring by that statement, but that was exactly my point... | ||
| Black |
Sure Dukdood9 is right, the most aerodynamic form in nature is a rain drop....but only if you're a liquid. | ||
| Blake |
That giant gaping hole for the giant conventional radiator looks more like a giant wind catcher to me, far more so than the two Buell cooling air intakes. "I don't have numbers. All I have is common sense."  Then you'll know about zero about drag coefficients from just looking at a motorcycle. Intuition gets you about 5% into aerodynamics. The rest is mind bendingly complex, at least for me. I did manage to pass Advanced Fluid Mechanics, but I didn't earn an "A". | ||
| Dtx |
I can't believe I am posting something from Superbikeplanet, but you gotta check out this picture and more importantly their snide comment. http://www.superbikeplanet.com/image/2009/us-super bike/kanzass/2/BJN49463.htm That's right folks...they are bragging about beating the Buell. Their little comment is indeed a HUGE compliment in my book. Buell is without a doubt, main stream in the racing scene now. | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
Pretty sure most rain drops don't have gigantic funnels behind their front wheels and a fairing the size of a Buick. I guess by your logic, this should be even MORE aerodynamic:  (See rain drop shape.) | ||
| Court |
Common sense, in the world of aerodynamics works a little bit at supersonic (see Concorde) speeds. Sub-sonic speeds are nearly counterintuitive. As you point out a rain drop is not "pointy on the front" (like the Concorde or any fighter or bullet) but has it's largest frontal area toward the relative wind. | ||
| Ducdood9 |
"Neither of the bikes you named comes close to the Buell aerodynamic numbers which were gathered in a wind tunnel in Wichita, KS. " ___________________________________ Well now I'm really curious, Court could you share the numbers with us please. This could be a good selling point that to many may not seem obvious. Thank You, | ||
| Sparky |
Actually, a raindrop shape is spherical, not shaped like a teardrop. Larger than 1 mm and it becomes flattened like a hamburger bun. Kinda counterintuitive, eh? | ||
| Dirty_john |
that caravan will have terrible vortices around the sides and yes a teardrop is the most efficient shape | ||
| Madav8tr |
DTX, did you notice the file name of the picture you posted? Such a clever way to spell Kansas don't you think? I refuse to click the link and generate more traffic for that site. I used to be on that site once a day, at least, but their childish behavior has been a huge turn off and it has cost them more than one regular visitor. Roadracingworld.com is head and shoulders above them. Professionalism is something SBP sorely lacks. | ||
| Maul |
I like how the caption said Cardenas somehow beat the Buell. They can't even give Danny Eslick credit for riding the wheels off that bike. I really wish the races would end with every Buell from first through however many enter. That would give them something to bitch about. What a bunch of tool bags. | ||
| Elvis |
Sort of makes you wonder why anyone would consider buying one of the Japanese 600's when you can get a vastly superior Buell for just a little more money (with some of the discounts, maybe you could even get the Buell cheaper) . . . | ||
| Bearly |
Wow, people with wind tunnels in their brains and can tell flow dynamics by just guessing. Maybe that talent happens when you buy a certain type of motorcycle? This is first for me. Anybody here know what a P-51 Mustang is? A WWII fighter with a huge radiator scoop (some here would call it a pod?) under the fuselage (that's the body of the plane if you own a Duck). Yep sticking right out in clean air this huge scoop had to cool a huge 12 cylinder engine. You wouldn't know just to look at it, but the damn thing MADE thrust. Seems as after the heat exchange the expanded gases pushed out the back and made up for the drag of the scoop, oh sorry... Pod. | ||
| Diablo1 |
Since the Buell has 25HP more than the 600s, by DMG dyno tests, why wouldn't it have a higher top speed on the track if the aerodynamic drag is as good as the 600s? Is Eslick rolling off the throttle to hide the top speed of the bike from DMG, or is Rocky right? |
