| Author | Message | ||
     Brapbrapbrap |
Ron_luning Posted on Monday, February 23, 2009 - 11:03 am: --- Buell is in the business of selling bikes, and that means as many as possible. I don't believe that want to sell as many bikes as possible. If so they would have spent more time in design geared toward a "Sport Bike" looking design. If you look at contemporary sport bike design the Buell is using soft shapes in a market of aggressively designed competitors. The high large top faring looks to be designed more for an older crowd also. I think the bike is purposely a nitch player for the older Harley guys. Heck it has retro tail fins, well up front. We all dreamed of the day we would get a water cooled version but I think many imagined either a Ducati type style or one that still had some of the old Buell success stories to tell oil in the swing arm, low center of gravity, I'm guessing the pods kind of moved the weight up a bit and out, I still like my old not a sport bike Buell but I dont think the new 1125 moved the needle as much as it could have. Look at the pictures of the Cagiva. Now tell me Buell wants to sell as many bikes as possible. PS, the engine is awesome in the 1125. | ||
| Mainstreamer |
A real sport bike would be competing with the others from Japan and Europe in the likes of World Supper Bike racing. What image do you think would best suit Buell branding and would lead to expanded product acceptance??? } | ||
| Redbuelljunkie |
So Italian "flare" is better? America can't build a sportbike? BS, Buell is just getting started. It is BS until Buell can build sportbike that is competitive on the world stage with the other manufacturers- that includes aesthetics along with performance and handling. Italian "flair" is internationally recognized as the zenith of design for motorcycles- and art, and cars, and clothes, and architecture, and sculpture, and glass, and ceramics... you get the point. Hopefully, Buell has just gotten started with the performance aspect- the XB's ironed out the handling. However, if Buell does not make some major adjustments to the aesthetic portion of the package, I'm afraid they will never be considered a competitive player in the superbike market. The combination of Rotax power, Buell chassis, and Italian design should be the goal for Buell- why not incorporate the best the world has to offer? | ||
| Carbonbigfoot |
The only solution is one of each. I WILL eventually have another Lightning in the stable. R | ||
| Dentguy |
Well said Redbuelljunkie. | ||
| Vagelis46 |
What about the rumors that the next 1125R will have a radiator under the seat ?? This will remove the pods and fix the aesthetics. Then everyone will be happy. | ||
| Elvis |
Personally, I think this is a pretty great looking Buell:  More photos here: http://www.higbee-racing.com/race_photos.htm | ||
| Brapbrapbrap |
That is a good looking picture, too bad its not a production shot.  | ||
| Brapbrapbrap |
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| Elvis |
That is a good looking picture, too bad its not a production shot. . . . true . . . . . . but since this whole thread is based on the idea that an artist was able to sketch a Cagiva that looks (in some people's opinion) better than a Buell, don't you think it's fair to inject the race fairing into the conversation? Buy an 1125R and the race fairing and you've got the bike in the photo. . . . it will be a little harder to throw a leg over the Cagiva. | ||
| Pariah |
Aesthetics are not about conformity... you're not going to "beat" Italian design by copying it. Buell's side pods are the cornerstones of a beautiful and distinctive overall design. I don't understand why people are so willing to axe these, especially when prominent scoops are so reminiscent of US supersonic aircraft--- and how appropriate is that... maybe they can be re-worked, but getting rid of them would be a mistake.    | ||
| Ron_luning |
I agree that the best way to sell the maximum number of bikes would be to put out a product similar to the Japanese brands for the same price. For a relatively small company like Buell, that is not possible. Triumph tried it and failed. Like Triumph, Buell should have a goal of selling the most product with their own unique twist. I think that is their goal with going to the 1125 engine. To keep pace with the Japanese manufacturers that are coming out with bikes that are nearly a clean sheet design every 2-3 years is not feasible for smaller companies. That's why smaller manufacturers make bikes that are 'different'. They then need to work within that brand identity to maximize sales. There wasn't much of a way ahead with the air-cooled H-D engine approach. Long term growth of their product line and expansion into different markets now at least has a chance of occurring. Maybe I wasn't clear earlier. | ||
| Brapbrapbrap |
It's naive to think all sportbikes look the same. A ducati can be spotted a mile away. I can tell the difference at 70mph what kind a bike is going down the highway. They all have their own Identity. Ron Luning just brought up a good point others start with a clean slate every so often. Maybe being water cooled would have been a good time for a new design and incorporated the cooling system into an over design??? The XB Buells are good-looking maybe because they were designed with a clean slate in 2003? | ||
| P_squared |
You forgot my personal favorite visual comparison:  Not the 'fastest' jet, but arguably the most versatile, and definitely not something you want to be on the receiving end of.  | ||
| Pariah |
That's an F4? (also looks a bit like a VTOL plane-- Harrier?) F4 is nice, but I couldn't find such a great "scoop" shot--- your pic is perfect!  (Message edited by pariah on February 23, 2009) | ||
| P_squared |
It's a Harrier. | ||
| Slaughter |
AV8B is so "last Century"  | ||
| Clarkjw |
You're posting pictures of planes in a bike forum, trying to justify the 1125r looks. Can you say stretchhhhhhhhhhh! The 1125 has a wonderful looking front fairing that is very functional and sexy tail. The pods are VERY poorly integrated, and the coolant canister placement is less than ideal. Also, for air to be force through a radiator, it must have an outlet. That's why the GEICO bike has cutouts. They should make the pods much smaller, without frame overlap, then put a hex mesh over the cutouts. | ||
| P_squared |
That's me, 'last century'. Guess the scars on my knuckles are starting to show from dragging them everywhere, huh?  Slaughter, Is that the F-35 JSF? Clarkjw, As for the cutouts on the GEICO bike, I'm pretty sure they are there because the fans aren't. Works good for racing, but don't think it would work as good in stop & go traffic. I also have a hunch that design would RAISE the insurance rates, as I don't think it uses the crash features designed in the current pods?  As for the "stretchhhhhhhhhhh!" comment, "PARIAH STARTED IT!"  | ||
| Court |
>>>What about the rumors that the next 1125R will have a radiator under the seat ?? Now wheeeeeeeeeeeere have we seen that before? The F-22 may be as "real" as that Cagiva. . . I see my main man Obama cut the funding for it. UPDATE: The F22 funding cut is up in the air pending the March budget.
(Message edited by court on February 23, 2009) | ||
| Oddball |
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| Carbonbigfoot |
Maybe I could move my scoops to the back....  Hmmmmm.... Rob | ||
| Oddball |
Place the pods in a Pannier location. Low pressure zone at the rear wheel, high pressure at scoop inlet. Could always sling soft bags over them for travel. | ||
| Hootowl |
Reminds me of this  more than anything else | ||
| Mainstreamer |
"The F-22 may be as "real" as that Cagiva. . . I see my main man Obama cut the funding for it." AND would you be surprised to find that H-D may be doing exactly the same for the funding of Buell. Tell me, how many years has Buell been in business and how many years have they posted a profit? Now, if you where in the pilots seat at H-D what would you do with Buell??? | ||
| Brapbrapbrap |
Hire some new designers? | ||
| Pariah |
I believe that Erik Buell actually derived inspiration from fighter aircraft (that's what one article on the 1125R in Robb Report has led me to believe--- the journalist interviewed and rode off with Erik). And I can't think of anything more appropriate than cutting-edge US-designed aircraft as inspiration for America's first production superbike. Why not? You're telling me Ducati hasn't drawn inspiration from Ferrari or any of the Italian auto marques? Design stems from the engineering soup of a culture... in the US, how can you ignore the aerospace industry? To wit, compare the lines (and color!) on the Enzo and the 1098:   | ||
| Dentguy |
I see my main man Obama cut the funding for it. Not surprised. Obama is going to negotiate with terrorists and probably thinks we will never need them.  | ||
| Clarkjw |
LOL, if you are worried about crashing and insurance, get some sliders. | ||
| Pariah |
Why do you need state-of-the-art jets to fight an opponent who possesses not much more than rocks and C-4 strapped to his a$$? The Cold War era with a technologically advanced adversary is gone (some of us controls engineers actually miss the Soviets and their arsenal, as many of us are relegated to programming air conditioning systems)... money is better spent on intelligence gathering, let's get real. (Message edited by pariah on February 23, 2009) |
