| Author | Message | ||
     Xb9 |
(Message edited by xb9 on July 30, 2008) | ||
| Slypiranna |
Keep it up Easyrider! We are sitting on the edge of our keyboards with your dyno tuning!  Do you have any means to post the actual race ecu map pages, AFV & Closed Loop criteria? Copy and paste the screens, perhaps? If so, that would be wonderful to see! The more info, the better! Why not all screens or am I getting greedy? Thanks Xb9 for your good eyes! That pic enlargement link on the o2 / 1125CR got the gears turning again! One of the few things that I can replicate on mine! Never know, just might be worth something. Thanks again gents, mm | ||
| Id073897 |
and am I correct in assuming you are using a stock Buell "race" ECM Yeah. I was wondering when the first one would get that. Regards, Gunter | ||
| Slypiranna |
Does the ddfi3 race ecm still allow for close loop & AFV functions? Is there anywhere within the program that show a table that reveals the o2 feedback information pertaining to CL correction? | ||
| Bob_thompson |
I guess no one will answer you MM. I am also interested. Please someone? On another note; has anyone found an easy way to get to and disconnect the front O2 sensor? | ||
| Xb9 |
 | ||
| Crashstp |
frt O2 sensor quick disconnect can be found above the cold air intake | ||
| Bob_thompson |
Thanks Crashstp, I know where it is but there just does not seem anyway to get to it even with my rather small hands. | ||
| Crashstp |
use of a pocket screwdriver does wonders - use it to lift the clip | ||
| Slypiranna |
I can accept the fact no one will answer my last question concerning the race ecu... But I would really appreciate a factual explanation to the TPS/THOTTLE BODY SERVICE BULLETIN. It does apply to this threads overall understanding and I do not wish to spend serious $'s for a failed TPS in the future; http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/290 431/378041.html?1217290377 I purchased this bike as a very long termer. I have to plan on out of warranty upkeep. | ||
| Zac4mac |
MM- sounds like too high precision for many dealerships. I'm sure "you" can replace a bad injector and not need to replace the whole throttle body. There will more than likely be a nice "core-charge" for the replacements too. Z | ||
| Slypiranna |
Nothing personal Z but did you read the Bulletin? This refers to the TPS sensor. If it fails, you must now replace the throttle body assembly. The thottle body assembly for this bike is close to $1000.00 retail. 2 years goes by very fast. This might just become the most expensive TPS sensor you'll ever have the "pleasure" in "purchasing". Read the entire thread and you'll understand why I am questioning this. mm (Message edited by slypiranna on July 30, 2008) | ||
| Chevycummins |
I'm sure the TPS sensor is not 1125R specific. With some research you could probably find it used on some other application, probably automobile. I guess I would not worry about it until you need one but I'll keep my eyes open anyways. As for the bulletin making sense, it sounds like tech's had a problem getting them set up correctly, or there is a problem with the throttle body causing sensors to fail or have inaccurate readings. Just a guess. | ||
| Chevycummins |
I've got a question I hope someone can help me with. I get a code p0193 fuel pressure code sometimes and the dealer can never find anything. I checked the fuel pressure today and seems to be in spec with what the book says. Hears the question, I noticed at 2900rpm up to 3600rpm the pressure starts to surge up and down about 7 to 8psi, is that normal? Has anyone put a mechanical gauge on and checked fuel pressure? The frequency of the surge in pressure from low to high to low again seems the same as the surge I feel when at cruise. Could this be some of the "surge problem"? I disconnected the fuel pressure sensor and rode the bike and it has little to no surge now. It still has a buck feeling sometimes. I know that the fuel pressure is commanded to maximum and the injector pulse width is adjusted to compensate for high pressure so is that why it feels smoother now or is it because the fuel pressure is steady? Any thoughts? | ||
| Ponti1 |
Chevy, how many miles? I had that code at first...Say, off and on for the first 300 miles. Then, it just went away. It came back one time since, at about 500 miles. Haven't seen it since, and I'm just shy of 4000 on the odometer now. | ||
| Chevycummins |
Ponti1, 1800 miles so far. The dealer has looked at it 3 times and never can find anything. It has turned the eng light on but usually I just see it when in diag mode. When cleared out it usually shows up in diag in a few days. AFV went to 90 front and rear with the fuel pressure set at max. After I connected the fuel pressure sensor again the AFV went to 99.5 front and rear. Before this test the front was 100 and rear 94.5. I only ran 1 day with the pressure sensor disconnected, and once connected I never kept a constant speed in any gear other than 5th and 6th and the AFV changed. 3rd gear 45mph? Worked in 5th and 6th for me. | ||
| Bigdog_tim |
Chevy - I don't have the code but mine has been at 100 F 94.5 R for a long time now. I found a great road to do the 3rd gear thing - kept it dialed in at 4K for almost 7 minutes. After that - still at 100 F 94.5 R I am not clear on how to interpret the AFV values. I would think that the rear cylinder needs MORE gas (and less air) since it will be hotter during normal operating conditions. Anyway - I have no codes whatsoever. Other than surging, only problem I have ever had was a bad VR. Oh - and the bad VR did not throw any codes but my dealer was able to figure that out in very short order. | ||
| Ponti1 |
I would think that the rear cylinder needs MORE gas (and less air) since it will be hotter during normal operating conditions. I think that rear cylinder running more rich makes sense also, and kinda feel better about that thought based on all the other similar opinions here. Not sure what proper AFV looks like for my elevation, but I'm running 100F/95R every time I check it. Seems to run well for me, so I haven't lost any sleep over looking for improvement. | ||
| Chevycummins |
Everybody has there own idea of how the AFV actually works. I asked a Buell tech at customer support that I usually talk to and he told me that the AFV corrects richer or leaner depending on what the O2 sensors are reading. He told me that the ideal number is 100, this means that the maps programmed into the ecm for the conditions you ride are correct and the O2 feedback is within its window. If the O2 feedback is too rich or lean for the map it is running then it will adapt bast off the O2 sensor signal to correct it. That was just my take on what he told me. I may be way off. But it does make sense to me. So ideally in a perfect world, with programmers that could predict every driving style and condition, the ecm would never have to adapt. There would always be a map that would fit the conditions, and AFV would be 100. Why would the programmers design a program that will only correct AFV while driving in an odd manor. It may just be that I ride in an odd manor but I rarely run 3rd gear, constant throttle, at 45mph for a long time. When I did do the 3rd gear thing that was the first time the AFV changed, but it went lean. The bike still ran the same as far as I could tell. Could it be that at that speed and load there is a little gray area in the programming of the maps and that's why the AFV changes. I'm not sure, but it would make sense if the "learning" took place with a engine at operating temp, under 5500rpm, and a steady throttle for X amount of time. At least most people would hit the enable criteria. | ||
| Jpfive |
Chevy, add to the above that the map also assumes that all components are performing at 'nominal' values. To use an example that affected Aprilia performance a few years back (non closed loop EFI) - fuel pressure. The fuel pump has a range of operation, around a nominal value, which is further regulated by a pressure regulator, which operates in the same manner. In the case of the Aprilias (Futura and Caponord specifically) some owners began installing programmable regulators to address rideability issues. Some bikes were fine without this, but measurements that were posted showed a significant variance between bikes. In our case, these fuel pressure variances - to whatever extent - will be adjusted for by the AFV. So, a bike running outside of AFV 100 may be adjusting for a fuel pressure variation. The other variation that comes to mine is that of fuel injectors +/- from nominal. Just a good reason to appreciate the CL dimension, as fueling maps can not correct for this by themselves. Jack (Message edited by jpfive on August 02, 2008) | ||
| Bob_thompson |
I don't want to change the subject guys but I have a question as a novice in this ECM programming and trying to stay within the title of this thread "how do we learn" First can I assume with at least the Buell race ECM you use a laptop to load the program through a connector to the ECM? Second, once connected do you see a graph, numbers or other type of readout? Then, once you see the parameters of what you have, how do you change them? I.E., do you merely change numbers, move a curser up or down in the case of a graph, or what? I understand you should save the stock program, just in case, and then do you just hit "run program"? Does anybody have a picture of a program that you could share with us? I'm pretty sure in the case of at least some "power programmers" you merely connect to the ECM and choose stock, high performance or race modes. Also some for cars let you tell the ECM what aftermarket performance additives you have made as in exhaust, air cleaners, etc. And then you just push "run". I believe it may stay connected and on the vehicle. Am I close or way off? Not like the old days; change jets, adjust timing physically, read a plug, easy then. Still learning, and thanks for any input. Bob UPDATE: I finally began reading the ECMSpy web site and most of my questions are getting answered but please respond anyways. Bob (Message edited by bob_thompson on August 02, 2008) | ||
| Slypiranna |
Every Programmable ecu that I've used (not BMC's yet) allow rewritting of all base map tables, fuel & ignition. You can usually enter them in numbers that represent pulsewidth or advance within each cell, +/- a whole number in a highlighted cell group or even +/- a percentage to a highlighted cell group. They usually allow most all other parameters to be altered as well as turning their functions on and off. You can either perfectly tune an engine with this tool or you can totally ruin it with one keystroke/entry. This is really not something that should be played with in learning mode. These changes should be totally understood before making them. You've been warned, again... Concerning the 11's available race ecu, what we don't have info on yet is whether the ecu supports CL & AFV operations and if so, can all parameters of those systems be altered???? No one is talking, yet. This is the only question I have left before spending the $'s and heading to the dyno room for a few days! Many however, have been working with ECMspy, one of which, I rode this weekend. I noted the improvements in low rpm regions. The minor enrichment & timing adjustments to those load cells in question make a major difference in the engine's operation/smoothness and perceived mechanical noise. There is still much to learn of the stock ecu and it's operations though. A LOT more! AND there is A LOT of power left to be extracted of this engine in it's current state of tune! The 09 flash should tell the final story as far as a stock bike goes that is tied to EPA regulation. I am holding onto the faith that this one is fully developed and proven and will support all the 1125 build/running variables in a positive way. Oh, by the way, Chevycummins...To convert kilopascals to pounds per square inch, multiply the kpa value by .14503773773020923...I'm looking at the fuel pressure right now but I cannot find that large of a PSI difference? | ||
| Bob_thompson |
Thanks for a great answer MM, very informative. Was the ECMSpy tuned bike you road recently an 1125 or an XB? Just wondering as Gunter has said there is not anything for our bikes yet from ECMSpy. I would think the race ECM would not need a closed loop operation. Just set it up for the track and atmospheric conditions and not need to change it from there on. However it would be great if it did have that function for street driven bikes. I'm also hoping the new flash, even though it will be EPA certified will help a stock bike with this leaness/poor running some have had. Thanks again, Bob | ||
| Slypiranna |
It was an 11. ECMspy can by used to make very minimal adjustments. More time though and who knows, maybe it will be fully supported... I agree, the race ecu doesn't need low speed CL but it would be nice if it was there. If nothing else but for testing purposes in comparison to the stocker. A little expensive tool but still cheaper than 100's of hours of tail chasing! | ||
| Easyrider |
We post a small article about our 1125R tuning and one for changing the front brake: http://www.twinmotorcycles.nl/artikelen.asp 1. Dyno Tuning the 1125R 2. Buell 1125R Race prepping (Message edited by easyrider on August 06, 2008) | ||
| Slypiranna |
Good info Easyrider! Keep us posted on what you learn. PM sent. | ||
| Slypiranna |
No-difference-with-ONLY-relocated-o2's-on-latest-0 8-mapping...over-200-miles-tested.mm | ||
| Slypiranna |
Who-else-is-testing?-Or-does-this-thread-need-to-d ie?mm | ||
| Josh_ |
I missed where you relocated your o2? Do you have the 09 injectors? I'm waiting for the 09 map, but that RaceECM is looking real good (tho for $775 it had better!) | ||
| Slypiranna |
Read-entire-archives...mm p.s.---you'll-need-race-lisense-for-ecu. |
