| Author | Message | ||
     Simonbg |
I notice if I am cruising at mid-high RPMs and I keep them steady or slowly accelerating, I hear loud rattle, probably from engine, that is not rhythmic (hence I say rattle). Best heard at 1st gear between 20 and 25mph but I can hear it on second above 30 mph as well. If I accelerate hard or decelerate - I don't hear it. Bike has 3000 miles and runs very well otherwise (I did 80mph today and it kept pulling). It is not as audible on neutral but I managed to capture it well (I hope) on video: https://youtu.be/q5LFxrERH88 Things I have checked so far: *Primary chain adjustment - loosening/tightening it seems to have no effect *Checked as many fasteners as I could around engine/exhaust. *Made sure it wasn't foot pegs, shifter or foot brake. *Read and and watched other noise videos - nothing exactly like mine. Recent work I have done on the bike: *Replaced rocker cover gasket. I followed service manual procedure (the most important probably to turn the engine by hand to set the push rods before cranking it). *Carburetor work *Engine and primary oil replaced (Mobil 1 V-Twin 20W50 in both). Hope someone has run across this and advise if I have a ticking bomb or is it normal. (Message edited by Simonbg on May 26, 2022) | ||
| Simonbg |
Update: It doesn't do it when engine is cool/barely warm. | ||
| Cvc |
STOP RIDING IT. That is until you pull and check the crankshaft nut for tight. I lost the splines on a crankshaft at only 1200 miles several years ago. I changed the shifter spline due to it being broken by a PO the torque spec in the 05 repair manual was 185lb IIRC and the later updated spec 240 or 280 ? and locktite plenty of lock tite. So check for the updated spec grab a residential door hinge for the crankshaft locking tool and check that torque. | ||
| Cvc |
Went back and listened to your video again . Does it get worse in transition light power on and light to gradual power off while riding? That’s the death rattle of a loose crank nut. | ||
| Simonbg |
I don't have experience with that part of a engine but I don't mind trying. Which nut exactly are you talking about? I went thru the service manual, engine section and the only high torque value nut is this: Flywheel - sprocket nut (for measuring fly wheel end play) 190-210 ft-lbs; Page 3-64 In the transmission section, the only high torque nut I see: Engine sprocket nut 190-210 ft-lbs; LOCTITE® thread locker 262 (red), Page 6-20 | ||
| Gearheaderiko |
Page 6-20 is what he’s mentioning, but it sounds as if you’re referencing the same nut. Your tank cover should be flush with the fuel cap. You can work it down. Tank covers can rattle too, but I don’t hear that as your problem. Did adjusting the primary chain do anythIng at all? If not, someone may have adjusted it too tight and ruined the chain tensioner block giving you no adjustment at all. That will make a lot of noise too. | ||
| Gearheaderiko |
2000-2001 models have chronic oil pump drive gear failure. If it fails completely you won’t have any oil pressure and the oil level will keep going down every time you add oil, but with no visible leak. | ||
| Simonbg |
Adjusting the primary does make differences - gets noisy when loosened and RPMs drop down when to tight. I want emphasize again that the first 8-10 minutes of the ride, the rattle is simply not there. Also, if I stop for 15-20 minutes brake, no immediate rattle. And closing the throttle immediately gets rid of the rattle. So it must have something to do with oil temperature perhaps? If the nut was loose, it would probably rattle right away or shortly after warm up, so I doubt that it is the engine sprocket nut. I have the same post on reddit and 3 guys there suggested that it is the lifters. The oil pump drive gear is interesting suggestion - I did put 1.9 qt of oil and I does reach near the Max of the dip stick. Any other ways to check for that without taking the right side of the engine apart? | ||
| Gearheaderiko |
The lifters do sound noisy, but I don’t trust my ears on a recorded engine sound. Noisy lifters is also a sign of low oil pressure. Cam cover is very easy to take on and off (just don’t drop the gears out). Oil temperature can effect things with cold (thick) oil dampening noises much better. It can also change the vibration. Thumbs up on the primary chain. It’s a single cylinder engine and almost impossible to balance and its a Harley engine too. They run and vibrate differently at different temperatures (outside and engine). You’ll also find there’s a “sweet spot” in running that will change on you at random. Some days it’ll be sweet and smooth, other days you’ll swear it’s coming apart. Oil must be checked when hot, not just a 10 minute warm up. A cold Blast engine sitting for a week will show empty (you won’t even see oil in the frame). Get it to full operating temperature and it will show full. It only takes 1 3/4 oil in a regular oil and filter change. 2 quarts would probably show overfilled when hot. If you’ve put more than 2 quarts in you definitely have a problem. I know some of this sounds remedial and I don’t mean to be insulting. But it’s a quirky little bike and many Harley mechanics have messed them up thinking it’s a simple little bike and they know everything. Many Harley shops wouldn’t touch them and they’d be very rude about it!! You might be chasing rattle gremlins or a serious problem. Removing the cam cover might be the easier way to go to check the oil pump drive gear. Removing the rocker/valve cover will let you know if the lifters are pumping up and if the pushrods are loose (but it’s not as easy as the cam cover). Obviously putting an oil pressure gauge on it would be helpful, but most people don’t have them handy. If the oil light flickers though, you probably have a problem. | ||
| Simonbg |
The rattle is starting to worry me more. So I removed foot peg assembly and primary cover. Rented a 250ft lbs torque wrench (mine only goes to 150) and locked the crank/trans with a 4" hinge. Here is a picture for future reference https://pasteboard.co/ooK9JTYaELPl.png By the way, 28mm socket fits better than the suggested (online sources) 1-1/8" socket. The wrench clicked somewhere around 180-190 without rotation, so I don't think the nut was loose. I managed to turn it slightly, 210-215ft/lbs, the higher limit per service manual, just in case. Anything else I can check on this side before I close it and refill with oil again? One thing that slightly worries me is metal shreds on the plug magnet. This only after 100 miles since the last oil change. And there was a similar amount (may be a little bit more) last time. Photo: https://pasteboard.co/ViTuOUXujvCz.png | ||
| Simonbg |
EUREKA!!! The rattle is actually engine knock/detonation. I got to this conclusion after hearing someone else's video on youtube, completely different bike. Here is the twist: I started playing with the ignition timing, and even after retarding it all the way, with engine tone clearly changed, the knock was still there. Was about to scratch off this idea/or do something with the harness to somehow test TPS, when I decided to put on the bike the original, 21 years old HD spark plug (adjusted the gap to 1 mm). No more knock! Couldn't believe it so I put back the brand new NGK iridium that I purchased based on recommendations on this forum - knocks. I wasn't dreaming. Pulled it out, checked the gap, it was like .6mm - adjusted to 1.1mm - still knocks. Put back the original HD - no knock. All this without letting the engine cool down and doing exact same loop in 1st/2nd gear. Since this iridium was highly recommended here, could there be something else off with my bike? Also, the service manual says that the ignition will be advanced (when TPS is properly operating) when throttle is up to 50%. This seems way too much too me, meaning the advance should stop at like 20%. Who cruises with 50% open throttle?!? But this would explain why I wasn't hearing it with wide open throttle. (Message edited by Simonbg on June 04, 2022) | ||
| Gearheaderiko |
What octane gas are you running? Is it running lean? Can you quote the gap in .001’s. Most of us don’t use mm to gap plugs. | ||
| Simonbg |
1mm = 0.03937008". The tank had a mix of 91 and 93. Jets are 45/170, it shouldn't be lean, although it has K&N air filter. Should I gobup to 175? Btw, after I posted the previous message, I noticed on the iridium spark plug box it says - do not change gap. Not that it makes a difference in my case.Just mentioning it for educational purposes. (Message edited by SimonBG on June 04, 2022) | ||
| Gearheaderiko |
You can go up to 175. Is it a K & N in a factory air box? That should be fine. Some other non stock filters cause problems. Stock exhaust? Hopefully the plug gap is now where it was when you bought it? |
