| Author | Message | ||
     Tim |
Had the bike tore down in anticipation of the big bore install. Upon receipt I found out the cams are not included due to a supplier issue. We installed the kit and plan to break it in with the stock cams. However, I believe the cams may have may have gotten moved when we pulled off the cam cover. The service manual has a photo but it is not real clear(to me anyway)how to line up the cams and pinion gear or what position the crank needs to be in.(TDC based on timing mark on crank?) Can anybody clarify this? (Might have to try and call Nallin from work tomorrow.) Thanks, Tim | ||
| Tim |
I just realized that the the pinion gear is on the crankshaft, which would take care of the crank alignment. Is there any reason the stock pushrods, lifters, and cams won't work with the big bore kit 'till I get the cams? Thanks again, Tim | ||
| Ezblast |
Whats already there? Is ignition still stock? Is the head still stock?If yes to these, then there should be no reason why not to. GT - JBOTDS!EZ  | ||
| Spooky |
Tim, What kind of cams were you planing on running. I've got a few extras laying around. Eric  | ||
| Carcass |
Tim- I can tell you this much: The cams Nallin supplies with the 515 kit are Andrews B50's, the same as the Screamin' Eagle cams from Buell for the Blast. Yes, you can run the stock cams with the 515, you just won't feel the full potential of the kit. Likewise, if you already have the Andrews cams in you bike, don't pull them, just do the big bore. Stock pushrods work. I'd leave the stock lifters in, too. (If not too many miles...) -Mark  | ||
| Aaron |
Mark, we only put B50's into a project if the head is a Stage 1. Stage 2 and 3 come with good valve springs and big valves and can handle a bigger grind and take advantage of it. I'm not sure what Tim's head stage is or what cams we're trying to get for him, but that'll drive the cam selection. My guess is he's waiting on B70's. Andrews only does a production run on them things once or twice a year near as I can tell. We buy some for stock but it sounds like Tim got caught in that window between when we ran out and when Andrews is making them again. I apologize to Tim for that. Tim, have you discussed your other options with Justin? We can certainly put you into something else, like the Firebolt cams. They work well, they just require a modified timing cup. | ||
| Ezblast |
A voice from the dark side wispers - go for the XB set up - gooo foorr thheee XB setup! Can't ask for better advice than that and from da man! - lol - Got Thump?! Just Blasting on the Dark side! EZ | ||
| Tim |
Justin recommended the Andrews N9's. He said they are very similar to the firebolt cams without the hassle of the rotor cup mod. I am just waiting for him to get back to me with price and availability. I've got the stage 3 heads. I tried bolting it up tonight with the stock pushrods and the intake pushrod would not loosen up. I'm guessing these valve stems are longer than stock? I pulled the rocker box back off and will re-install tomorrow with the adjustable pushrods. | ||
| Aaron |
Well, I can tell you honestly, that of all the cams I tried building the 515 around, the N9's made the most power. So I sure as hell ain't gonna argue! | ||
| Aaron |
Oh, on the pushrods, that surprises me. Stock lifters still? And you were on the base circle of the cams? | ||
| Tim |
Had it close to TDC on the compression stroke with the static timing mark visible in the timing window. Yes, stock lifters. Am I missing something? | ||
| Aaron |
Longer pushrod on the exhaust? And gave it lots of bleed down time? Man, I don't know, something doesn't sound right. I know we check and set stem protrusion on every head, I have a hard time believing that's it. | ||
| Jprovo |
of all the cams I tried building the 515 around, the N9's made the most power I'll stash that info in the "future mods" section of my brain... got it!  James} | ||
| Jprovo |
Tim, You mentioned in your first post that you thought that you might have moved the cams when you pulled the cam cover. Are you sure that they are timed right? James | ||
| Tim |
I've got the adjustables in and all is well. Haven't actually started it yet, but we are getting good compression. Aaron said,"longer pushrod on the exhaust", that was probably my error. My son noticed they were different lengths when we took them out last night, not sure if we had them mixed up but its probable. Thanks for the input. | ||
| Tim |
Aaron or Justin: My XB cams are at the dealer to be picked up! Which two cams do I use, the rear ones? Do I need to install the new pinion gear that comes with the cams or just use the existing one? Do you have the info on modifing the timing cup? And do you use the blast or XL settings on the ignition? I sent Justin an e-mail but haven't gotten a response. I'm working a lot of OT right now and don't have time to call during the day. You can reply here or e-mail me at address in my profile. Thanks. | ||
| Aaron |
The cams will be marked 1E, 2E, 3E, 4E. 2E is your intake cam and 1E is your exhaust cam. Use the new pinion gear and install per the book. To cut the second window in the timing cup, position the motor at tdc on the compression stroke (rotate the motor forward, watch the intake valve close, then watch through the timing plug hole for the vertical line on the flywheel). Now put the ignition plate in place in the center of it's adjustment range and note the rotational position of the sensor. The idea is to put the window such that it's leading edge is just arriving at the timing plate sensor when you get to TDC. Bear in mind that the timing cup turns counter-clockwise! Start by cutting a small window, a little too early, then look at the base timing ... the ignition instructions tell you how but basically with the motor at TDC you turn the plate clockwise and watch the LED and when it just goes out, that's your base timing. Continue to widen the slot toward the sensor until the base timing is coming out in the middle of the plate's adjustment range. Now widen it in the other direction until it's the same width as the factory timing slot. Now you have two choices ... you can either just run the ignition in twin mode with two timing windows, or you can figure out a way to fill in the factory timing window in which case you run the ignition in single mode. If you choose to plug the factory window, just make sure it has no runout that can damage the sensor. I just ran mine with two windows and in twin mode. It was handy for me because I was using a tach that was designed for a twin, so doing it this way made the tach work. I did dyno it both ways though and there was zero difference on the dyno, the wasted spark wasn't hurting a thing. However, you may lose your tps input and auto choke output when you run it in twin mode. The tps input can be replaced by a VOES though. In my testing, I found that the XB cams work excellent on the Blast, significantly better than B70's (and miles better than B50's which are really mild cams). Plus they have excellent valvetrain dynamics. I got more power out of the N9's but that's a pretty broad grind with lots of overlap and all the problems that go with that. edited by aaron on August 20, 2003 | ||
| Blastoholic |
LOL, don't we all wish that the Buell Pro Series comes out with XB grind cams for our Blast that just BOLT in with no other mods... HEY Buell- Wake UP !  | ||
| Sarodude |
Ralph- According to Aaron the XB cams are too wild for an otherwise stock Blast. Also, the XB pushrods are a different length than the Blast units. I'm ready to start grafting an XB top end onto my Blast except it's someone's full time ride right now and I can't take it off the road long enough to do what I want. I have just about everything I need - including the XB cams. I just need some quality time with the Blast. -Saro | ||
| Ezblast |
Saro - The pushrods should be ok if I understand correctly - its the head springs and guides that would need swapping out if I remember right (correct me if I'm wrong)so floating can be prevented. GT - JBOTDS! EZ edited by ezblast on September 07, 2003 | ||
| Sarodude |
EZ- OK or otherwise - they are different part #s for the XB pushrods vs the Blast pushrods. I think they are different lengths to accommodate the different lift & smaller base circle. The valves, springs, etc are a given. Like I said - XB TOP END. Piston, head, valves, springs........... Gonna be running a different ignition than the SE unit also. Carburetion & exhaust remain to be seen. When I can START on this freakin' project also remains to be seen. -Saro | ||
| Tim |
Aaron, Thanks for the quick response! | ||
| Ezblast |
Saro - I asked this question and received a good answer - I am going to quote the letter...".. Yes ... the XB cams have about a .050 smaller base circle, the lifters see half that (.025). That won't cause a problem with the stock pushrods, because the lifters have about .200 of travel and the pushrods are sized to put them in about the middle of that range. So all else equal, the plunger in the lifter is a little less centered. But that's still plenty of range to compensate for cylinder and head expansion. Also, nine times out of ten a guy who has removed his head (which you must do to change the springs, which you must do to use the XB cams), he shortens the stack through thin gaskets and/or milling of the head or cylinder. Shortening is done to improve squish. It's likely he's shortening everything up at least .025 anyway! Aaron" - When I get into the red bike I will need information like this, have the head Nallinized, etc. Information like this is priceless - thank you Aaron, and that answers the question - although in for a penney in for a pound - if I was going to the XB head I'd stick with their pushrods also. Got Thump?! Just Blasting on the Dark side! EZ  | ||
| Sarodude |
EZ- That was one of the Aaron Wilson gems the Blastards have been lucky enough to be blessed with - and one of the ones I've tried to keep in mind. Ya gotta love this board, ya know? -Saro | ||
| Tim |
Finally got the son's blast in for a dyno tune, after 300 break-in miles. We took it to Zylstra's in Elk River,MN. It was the first blast they ever had on the dyno. To sum up what we have: Nallin 515 big bore kit, with stage 3 head work, stock carb. XB9 cams. V&H pipe. Pro Series intake. Screamin chicken ignition module set on curve 4 and redline set at 6500rpm. The initial pull, prior to tuning was 31.1 HP and 27.8 on the torque (for some reason he shut it down at 6200) The final pull came in at 37.4HP and 30.0 on the torque at 6500 rpm. (I am going to try and get the chart scanned sometime this week.) Aaron, HP was still headed upward at a pretty good clip when we hit the 6500 redline. Can we safely move the redline up to XB9 type limits? (7200-7300?) Thanks, Tim | ||
| Ezblast |
I'm not Aaron (he might be just a little busy preping for salt)but I have already asked that question - yes - I have mine set to a conservative 7100 - I was told it would be fine up to 7500) - however part of the restraint still holding up that engine combination is your exhaust with the 1 5/8 id header on the V&H (read the exhaust section of the Thumper KV where Aaron and others discussed the mathmatics and Dynamics of why 1 3/4" is better) - a few ponies lost there - Great job so far! Keep us posted! GT - JBOTDS! EZ  edited by ezblast on September 08, 2003 | ||
| Aaron |
What Ed said, and yes, absolutely, those heads with those cams will support more rpm and you need to turn up the rev limiter. I'd set it at maybe 7300rpm and see what happens, tweak it high enough that the power is nosing over before the motor gets into it. FYI, Shotgun's Blast is set up much the same way and it was making something like 44-45hp when I dyno'ed it here. | ||
| Ezblast |
Thank Aaron for taking the time out to answer - best of luck at the salt! Also as I was thinking I realized I had forgotten to ask - what intake are you running - straight stock will rob about 2 more ponies from you - K&N and air box mods, or the proseries, or a stack will have you breathing a lot better also. This is encouragement for you to know that his dyno got 44 since its usually a few ponies shy of everyone elses because of the big SAE correction for altitude - in all likely hood it would probably pull a 47 - 48 on any of our sea level dynos as has been shown elsewhere on this board! Great job so far Tim! Keep us posted! got Thump! Just Blasting on the Dark side! EZ | ||
| Mmelvis |
Looking into the Bolt-on big bore kit, 515cc from Nallin Racing, not the stage 3 kit. I was wondering is it advised to replace other stock parts if adding this upgrade to the bike ? The stock pipe has been switched with a vance and hines and the carb jetting has already been done. Thanks in advance for all suggestions edited by mmelvis on September 16, 2003 edited by mmelvis on September 16, 2003 | ||
| Ezblast |
Nope - but that becomes the start for other upgrades further down the line - cam, headwork and parts up grade on heads, ignition, intake, bigger pipe, - lol - Welcome to the Dark side!;0) Got thump?! Just Blasting on the Dark side! EZ |
