| Author | Message | ||
     Jwnsc |
>>With older BMW (airheads) ...... that are exposed to dirt, water and many miles need wheel bearings changed >>(ie like oil/filters). That's news to me. After riding an '81 R80G/S, '93 and '95 R100GSPDs many thousands of trouble-free miles, I replaced the oil filter every 3000 miles but never a single wheel bearing, nor carried any spares with me on cross country trips. I've got little over 3K on the Uly but feel compelled to carry around Koyo wheel bearings everywhere I go. Why should I pay to have better wheel bearings installed when Buell's silence on the issue implies there is no problem and the bike has 18 months left on the warranty? | ||
| Chas1969 |
Some people like 6-8$/qt. synth. motor oil and some like dino oil, it is a personal decision. Only I opt to ride and not worry about it. Chas | ||
| Teeps |
Busykat Posted on Tuesday, May 27, 2008 Buell would go a long way towards mitigating concerns if they'd just acknowledge the problem in a public manner and officially state that a fix is in-work. In a world without lawyers, this would be a true statement. Also, how would an acknowledgement help someone broke down on the side of the road? | ||
| Bearly |
What tools are you using to change bearings guys? I posted a long time ago the Jim's Bearing puller/ installer doesn't work well, as they were unaware that I.D. on the rear bearing was much great that one inch. So the tool breaks. | ||
| Jlnance |
Buell would go a long way towards mitigating concerns if they'd just acknowledge the problem in a public manner and officially state that a fix is in-work. This is so true. | ||
| Jlnance |
In a world without lawyers, this would be a true statement. Yes, it would be easier with out lawyers. It's not impossible in a world with lawyers. Also, how would an acknowledgment help someone broke down on the side of the road? In that situation, it doesn't help all, but that isn't the only issue. Right now you have people like me who are pressing in aftermarket bearings to try and fix this problem. We have absolutely no idea if doing so fixes anything. Perhaps it's a QC problem on the spacer length, or the press used to assemble the wheel damages the bearings or the spacer? We just don't know and we are flying in the dark. If Buell was to say "we expect to have a fix in 3 months," then we could all quit worrying about it and just wait. If they were to say "The problem seems to be related to the spacer getting crushed," then we would all stop pressing in new bearings. And there is also the question of good will. By not saying anything, it gives the impression that they are trying to avoid taking responsibility for the problem. I enjoy being a Buell fan. That's easier to do when you believe the company wants to take care of you. | ||
| Hughlysses |
What tools are you using to change bearings guys? http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem. taf?Itemnumber=95987 At least a couple of us have used this puller from Harbor Freight. Like the other poster, I couldn't get the bearing to budge using the included slide hammer. I ended up using a ~2 foot long piece of 3/4" rod driving against the puller through the center of the wheel and a dead blow hammer. You have to tighten the tool TIGHT to get it to grip properly. The pulley side bearing was HARD to get out on mine; the other side came out much easier. There was a significant amount of rust on the outside of the bearing race which no doubt caused it to stick. I gave the new bearings a light coat of grease which will hopefully make them easier to remove should they ever have to be replaced. | ||
| Dirt |
Well the count is now up to two. Had a second rear bearing failure on this mornings ride into work. First rear bearing (right side) failed at 12k miles. Bike sat in the dealership the entire month of Aug 07 waiting for an axle. At the time, Buell CS confirmed that the part was on national backorder. Now, about nine months later and approx. 27.5k miles on the speedometer, the left rear failed. This one looks uglier than the first. My unofficial list of damages include: - 2 bearings (not in stock) - spacer (not in stock) - rear axle (not in stock) - swingarm, appeared to be chewed up and may need to be replaced. - rear wheel, looks ok from the surface, but who knows what it will look like when they pull it down. The thing I'm most ticked about is the dealer told me they are super busy and it will probably be a while before they even have a chance to look at it. Hope I'm not looking at another month without the bike. Finally, just a comment for those who think these failures are not a big problem. Both of my failures have occurred on interstates traveling at highway speeds. Take it from me, when a bearing lets go at high speeds, it's a BIG deal. | ||
| Jwnsc |
Teeps said: >>>In a world without lawyers, this would be a true statement. Guys, this is not rocket science. It can be done. To wit (lawyer term) - BMW Motorrad has announced a recall of 744 2007 G650 X-Challenge and X-Country motorcycles for replacement of a defective circlip that may cause premature rear wheel bearing failure. See, it happens everyday. | ||
| Johnboy777 |
Hi Dirt, Was this latest failure w/ OEM bearings? Are you planning on using OEM replacement bearings again, or aftermarket? . | ||
| Jwnsc |
Teeps said: >>>In a world without lawyers, this would be a true statement. Guys, this is not rocket science. It can be done. To wit (lawyer term) - BMW Motorrad has announced a recall of 744 2007 G650 X-Challenge and X-Country motorcycles for replacement of a defective circlip that may cause premature rear wheel bearing failure. (Motorcycle Consumer News, June 2008, Page 6) It happens everyday. | ||
| Dirt |
Bearings were OEM. If I want anything different, I'll have to do it after I get the bike back from the dealer. The bike is still under warranty. | ||
| Rahbert |
Has anyone determined that the OEM bearings are in fact inferior to the SKF/Koyo parts? I would be very interested to see if someone sees a failure of an SKF or Koyo part in such a short service interval (with Buell torque settings, shims/spacers, and belt tension). Buell needs to determine if their specifications for these settings are wrong. If so, even a premium part will fail eventually. I for one can't fathom an NTN part being acceptable for a HD yet fail in a Buell. | ||
| Teeps |
Jwnsc Posted on Tuesday, May 27, 2008 Teeps said: >>>In a world without lawyers, this would be a true statement. Guys, this is not rocket science. It can be done. To wit (lawyer term) - BMW Motorrad has announced a recall of 744 2007 G650 X-Challenge and X-Country motorcycles for replacement of a defective circlip that may cause premature rear wheel bearing failure. (Motorcycle Consumer News, June 2008, Page 6) It happens everyday. True, recalls are announced every day. But you missed the point. | ||
| Jwnsc |
Teeps said: >But you missed the point. That German lawyers are more consumer friendly than American lawyers? Actually, its the bean counters who probably calling the shots. | ||
| Busykat |
Teeps, I'm sorry, but I guess I missed the point you were making too. I did understand Jlnance's post though, and I think he made some very good points. Still missing my Uly. I rode 250 miles yesterday on a 2006 Kawasaki Z1000. Absence may make the heart grow fonder, the seat on that Z had my @$$ growing real fond of my Uly too!  I missed the V-twin music three! | ||
| Jlnance |
I for one can't fathom an NTN part being acceptable for a HD yet fail in a Buell. Even more interesting, it's the same bearing used in the other XB rear wheels. Only seems to fail on the XB12X. The 12X does have different wheels than the other XB models. To answer your original question, no, we don't know that they Koyo or SKF bearings are any better. We just hope they are. | ||
| Ftd |
"I for one can't fathom an NTN part being acceptable for a HD yet fail in a Buell. Even more interesting, it's the same bearing used in the other XB rear wheels. Only seems to fail on the XB12X. The 12X does have different wheels than the other XB models." That is interesting. How about the XTs' wheels, are they ULY or XB type? We need to watch them for bearing failures particularly if they have ULY wheels. I bet a few people have put XB wheels on their ULYs. I know that population will be small but have there been any failures with that set up? | ||
| Froggy |
Ftd, all XB + 1125r use the same rims, with the exception of just the XB12X, and probably the police Uly. These 2 use a reinforced version of the XB rim. The XT uses the standard XB rim. Also, Ft_bstrd is among the few that switched to the standard rim. It should also be noted that the XB12SS/STT uses the same frame/swing arm/drive belt as the Uly's. My honest opinion is that it has something to do with the XB12X rim, as that’s what majority of the failures happen in. It even happened on my Uly. I had it in the dealer for 15k service + new tires, had the mechanic check the bearings for the hell of it. He saw one side was almost completely shot, and replaced both sides under warranty. | ||
| Ftd |
Thanks for the info Froggy. Evidence seems to point to the X wheels. Might be time for ULY owners like me who never plan for any off-roading to start looking for some XB wheels. I wish someone could explain exactly what it is about the X wheels that causes these failures. Frank | ||
| Hughlysses |
Froggy- interesting thoughts. A related question- I wonder if standard XB wheels normally have water in the hub like many of us have found with our Uly rear wheels? All the info seems to point to some kind of QC problem. If the problem is limited to Ulys, something about the rear wheel would be highly suspect. IIRC, the only difference in the Uly wheels is that less material is machined off of the rim leaving it thicker. Still, these wheels could be from a different factory or assembled on a different line where a QC problem could crop up. | ||
| Teeps |
}Jwnsc Posted on Tuesday, May 27, 2008 Teeps said: >But you missed the point. That German lawyers are more consumer friendly than American lawyers? Not so much that German lawyers are friendly, but that "some" lawyers (here) would be quick to take advantage of the good will intentions, if Buell were to issue such a statement. (see Busykat's post) Fear of getting sued, I suggest, is the motivation of silence. Actually, its the bean counters who probably calling the shots. The bean counters get their chance during process of developing and implementing the repair. Recalls and Product Updates are very expensive, when compared to a simple Service Bulletin. | ||
| Arcticktm |
Not much point in Buell doing a press release on the problem (if they agree there is one) unless they also have a solution. Telling customers there is a problem, but no fix yet, only results in a lot of people calling every day to see if you have the fix yet. Some of us here may be an exception, but that is still how the mob reacts. The possibility exists that Buell also sees the issue on some bikes, but just plain does not understand how to fix it themselves. OEM engineers are still only human, and can only work on so many things at once. Solving current problems does not always get ranked as high as developing new product. This is especially true when you are a very small engineering group. I understand how the unique Uly wheel makes an attractive target to blame, but cannot figure out why that would be the problem. The machining for the bearings should be exactly the same, regardless of the cast wheel being a bit beefier. My on-their-way-out rear bearings did not appear to be overloaded in any way. They just plain got wet and had corrosion damage that was killing them. Only time will tell if my SKF replacement bearings will do any better. | ||
| Jwnsc |
Fear of getting sued, I suggest, is the motivation of silence Mitigation and subsequent remedial action are legal concepts that help, rather than hurt a defendant. Doing nothing when it can be shown that they knew or should have known there was a problem, is when the real (punitive) damages kick in. So do you void your existing warranty and install different bearings, or continue to believe the official line, “Bearing problem, what bearing problem? As for me, I had the Buell dealer do the 1K service, copied every post I see about Uly wheel bearing failures into a separate file on my computer, I called Buell Customer Service and obtained an official reference number regarding Uly wheel bearing failures and an admission that Buell engineers do routinely monitor this forum. Lastly, I’ve educated my next of kin all of the above. Peace of mind, fellas, it's all about peace of mind. | ||
| Hughlysses |
I understand how the unique Uly wheel makes an attractive target to blame, but cannot figure out why that would be the problem. The machining for the bearings should be exactly the same, regardless of the cast wheel being a bit beefier. Arcticktm- I agree. The only connection I can imagine is that the Uly wheels may be finish machined or perhaps have the bearings installed in a different factory from the normal XB wheels. This different factory could have a QC problem that hasn't been found (yet). I.E.- the problem has nothing to do with the different wheels, it's just where they're made. Pure SWAG at this point. | ||
| Johnboy777 |
There again, there was an article in Fuell, not too long ago, that said Ulysses exert higher drive belt loading than other models, to the tune of 25%...IIRC LINK http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/142 838/352027.html?1208041373 John | ||
| Dirt |
Update: Spoke with the service dept today. As I suspected the swingarm is toast and what remains of the left bearing is seized to the wheel and can't be separated. Looks like a new wheel will be in order. However, here is the real purpose for my post. They told me when they pulled the wheel water poured out from the wheel bearing area. Their exact words were "a lot of water". Others on this board, but not all, have experienced the same thing. It looks like water was probably a large factor in this failure. There was no word on how the right side bearing looked. Just a little more fuel for the fire. | ||
| Treadmarks |
There again, there was an article in Fuell, not too long ago, that said Ulysses exert higher drive belt loading than other models, to the tune of 25%...IIRC hmmmmm......tighter belt...... more model specific bearing failures......... Good spot JB!  boing...boing...boing  | ||
| Joe_solo |
Add me to the failure list. Took the rear wheel off to replace the tire. My 07 Uly has 9700kms on the clock. Both bearings were gritty and difficult to turn. The inside of the shaft was dry, with a lot of white powder on the axle. Took the wheel to the dealer, they were pissed - in their eyes the warranty is void if I do anything to the bike. Once pressed they changed their tune and want me to reassemble the bike and bring it in in two weeks for the warranty claim. Took the wheel to a machine shop, they too said the bearings were toast. A cross reference from the numbers on the stock bearing to a SKF suggest that the bearing is sealed on one side - SKF 6006RSJ. Can anyone here say that is so? The guy in the shop was surprised that such a small bearing was used as wheel bearings in a motorcycle. The SKF number that one of you posted was 60062RSJ - sealed on two sides. Will that bearing fit and work? Being sealed on two sides should extend the life of the bearing. | ||
| Teeps |
Treadmarks Posted on Friday, May 30, 2008 There again, there was an article in Fuell, not too long ago, that said Ulysses exert higher drive belt loading than other models, to the tune of 25%...IIRC hmmmmm......tighter belt...... more model specific bearing failures......... I read the same thing. What troubles me is the nature of the loading was not mentioned... Said ABE:"We also discovered that the Ulysses duty cycle yielded a 25% increase in maximum belt loading." We here at Badweb are assuming belt tension is 25% greater, but that's not what was said. Perhaps Court, Anonymous or ABE himself can clarify this. Until then... |
