| Author | Message | ||
     Nguzzi |
Come meet Erik Buell this Saturday 9am to 5pm. at Welch Village Ski Area, Welch Minnesota. This is part of the BRAG Twisted Adventures. Nils Saint Paul BRAG. | ||
| Ebear |
Hey Nils....Please....Do NOT LET ERIK near a SNOWMOBILE!!!!!He may try fitting a ZTL brake to that front SKI!!!!  | ||
| Midknyte |
Do NOT LET ERIK near a SNOWMOBILE ahhh, that might not be all that bad http://thekneeslider.com/archives/2006/01/12/hyanide-and-baal-all-terrain-motorc ycles/  | ||
| Madsx |
 | ||
| Cataract2 |
I'd ride the above. | ||
| Spreadem |
Ask my Dad what happened last time he rode a ski bike...good story to hear over a beer or two  FB2 | ||
| Nguzzi |
Erik won't be riding, he just had his hand? worked on. He is coming in late tomorrow and will be with us all day. The first people get gifts ....maybe sling bags and shirts? I don't know. | ||
| Paulson |
I am digging the BAAL and the HYANIDE! That CityX looks like something that could actually be had though. | ||
| Buellgirlie |
Hi Nils! glad to see you're still online. how's Buell treating you? I'm at the MPLS airport right now (connecting between MKE and SEA) - so i'm sorta local  D | ||
| Buellgrrrl |
Are the test rides still going to be on, rain (likely) or shine? | ||
| Court |
Buell will not conduct test rides in the rain unless something HUGE has changed. What the heck. . . you can still autograph Erik's cast! | ||
| Sleez |
more details; http://www.michelinchallengedesign.com/MCD_2006/Site/mcd_gallery_2006/mcd_2006_g allery_m07.asp | ||
| S3ters |
Come on down anyhow.It can't rain all the day,besides it's a chance to test your new waterproof gear and get your bike dirty. | ||
| Buellgrrrl |
Well if Buell says their bikes can't be trusted in the rain, I'm bringin' my BMW sidehack! Maybe I should offer rides? | ||
| Court |
>>>Well if Buell says their bikes can't be trusted in the rain Huh? Who said ANYTHING about "trusted"? Buell pays HUGE insurance to conduct the demo program. It has, and no one mentioned one word about, trust. It's a simple cost/benefit analysis. To give you an idea of how underwriting works, call your insurance agent and tell them you are going to start entering the BMW in organized races and see what it does to your rates. The good news is that those Buells, yeah the BLAST and the XB's in the demo lineup, are some of the MOST RELIABLE motorcycles EVER produced. Rest easy....you can trust them. | ||
| Mrvvrroomm |
The event was a complete washout. It doesn't look good for tomorrow either. I bs'd with Erik for a few minutes, then got my sling bag and headed home. I took the car. I don't mind riding in the rain, but I don't make a habit of leaving my house when it's pouring. 41 degrees according to the thermometer in car. St. Paul HD was hosting the event. They had a few bikes in the chalet. 2 Uly's, a couple of XB12S's, and a CityX. I have just one bit of constructive criticism for SPHD...bring NEW bikes to a showing like this. Granted the 2 Uly's were '06, but the CityX was an '05 (with severely gas stained airbox cover) and I'm pretty sure one of the XB12's was an '04. Really, c'mon, who wants to see their leftovers. | ||
| Buellgrrrl |
A few years back I was at a BMW rally on a weekend like this- continious rain, temp in the high 30s, nasty wind gusts. About mid afternoon the local BMW dealer and an employee came riding in on their demos, having ridden a hundred miles in said rain to get there. They stayed and camped with us, and were happy to give any qualified rider a test ride. | ||
| Blake |
There's no accounting for the lack of judgement of a few select wind-whipped soaking-wet BMW dealership employees. Buell folk are apparently wiser. | ||
| Buellgrrrl |
Spending thousands of dollars renting a site, bringing in the Buell truck, etc. and then not allowing a single test ride is wise? | ||
| Steve_mackay |
Court is right. It rained on Friday during the factory demos at Hals last year. The test rides were canceled. As explained, in detail to me, is the people who put on the demos for Buell have been to court for accidents during Demos. And they don't like it. Would you? It's worth spending thousands, not having test rides, AND not having an incident. Versus risking the test rides, and having a rider go down. Would you let someone you DON'T know, ride your bike in the rain? I know I wouldn't | ||
| Diablobrian |
true-dat! | ||
| Rocketman |
In the UK one signs a disclaimer stating they are test riding at their own risk, before riding. You are required to show a valid driving license, which is photo copied, and you will not be allowed to test ride if your license has more than 6 penalty points. When signing the disclaimer with most companies, you are also agreeing to pay £500 to the company, if you are involved in any insurance claim resulting from you riding the test bike. This is to cover the companies excess on their insurance policy. This is the usual official route, but many motorcycle dealers will let you test ride without the bull shit. But rain or shine, you can test ride. Lawyers suck! Rocket | ||
| Court |
Signing any waiver in the world does not reduce the elevated risk of conducting demo rides in inclimate weather. Add the element that the Buell Demo Staff have to make lots of assumptions about a wide range of experience, abilities and see to the behavior of a GROUP of demo riders. Legal reasons aside, Buell (the first motorcycle company to bring you organized factory demos) also uses COMMON SENSE. I know....I know. Odd, but true. Like the under slung muffler, other manufactures will eventually catch on. No demo rides in the rain. Court | ||
| Rocketman |
Buell demo rides are perhaps a first in the US, but group demo's have been around for years in the UK. I guess the tough route to getting a full British motorcycle license, and the familiarity with British weather, it's inevitable that some test riding will no doubt be wet test riding. It might be common sense for safety sake in the US, but we are talking about balancing a two wheeled engine driven machine along a stretch of tarmac. That's a skill that you should be quite comfortable with in any road condition, wet or dry. If you can't ride in the rain you shouldn't really be riding at all, and if a manufacturer is wary about their potential customers wet weather riding ability, they shouldn't be in the motorcycle business unless they stipulate their machines are suitable only for dry weather use. Yeah, ridiculous, I know. Rocket | ||
| Buellgrrrl |
You're right, Rocketman- riding in the rain and dirt, gravel, etc. is a reality for most riders. I usually don't head out into the wet, but there's been times I've procrastinated around the campground or motel 'til noon hoping the rain would quit... and it didn't so I had to ride on or pay for another day. There was the time on my Buell when we rode across Pennsylvania in the rain to keep a ride on schedule. I do give up when it starts to snow though- spent a day sitting out an early season snowstorm in Sterling, Colorado a few years back. | ||
| Jlnance |
In the UK one signs a disclaimer Some things are better in the UK.  We sign disclaimers for the demo rides here as well. The problem is disclaimers don't really mean much in the US legal system. | ||
| Cataract2 |
Rocket and Buellgrrrl, I don't see anywhere where anyone said that Buell implied the bikes couldn't be ridden in the rain. They aren't doing the demo rides in the rain because in America, a sad fact, is that if someone crashed they could sue, and win, Buell for doing this in conditions that were dangerous for this. Just because you sign a waiver does not mean the company is protected from liability. Sadly there have been cases where people have sued even after signing a waiver and some have won. That's how it is here. So stop bagging on Buell over their not doing a demo ride in the rain and look at it from their perspective on what could cause them problems in the long run. | ||
| Court |
It's basic common sense. Buell, as the manufacturer, has a higher "duty of care". They have to assume that, as an example, a person has minimal skills. By that I mean that perhaps a person participating in a demo has only recently obtained their license and has not acquired the skills, as all of us have, riding in rain. Like you guys, I've ridden in rain ranging from light drizzle to torrential down pours in Lexington, the Smokey Mountains and Minnesota. One valuable lesson I learned on a race track, was that once the "crud" gets washed off the road, rain makes little difference as my lap times eased up toward my "dry times". But, public roadways and riders with unknown, and widely varying skill levels, demand that Buell err on the side of safety. BMW several years ago started their own factory demo crew. Does anyone know if they ride in the rain? Tough for me, given the low threshold to "prove" tortuous negligence in the USA, to assume they do. Interesting stuff. | ||
| Rocketman |
I see Buells perspective clearly. I really do. It is a sad fact that people who would seek to test ride a motorcycle for their own pleasures later, would become the same people who would seek to sue if they were to fall from the test motorcycle in poor weather conditions. There must be a legal way to prevent such circumstance. Surely that is the sole intention of signing a disclaimer, otherwise nothing, never mind a paltry disclaimer, is worth the paper it's written upon. How forward thinking for a motorcycle company would it be if for example they were to specifically test in poor weather conditions in the interests of safety. Rocket | ||
| Cyclonedon |
I won't even ride my own motorcycle in the rain much less a brand new motorcycle that I've never ridden before and I don't own! It only makes sense to wait till the weather is better so you can truly enjoy the ride! | ||
| Loki |
Sadly Rocket that is why this country has so many lawyers. I once had a portable cd player that had a weird disclaimer on it. "not to be used as trebuche(sp?) ammunition" The lawsuit that spawned that one just had to be funny and sad at the same time. | ||
| Indy_bueller |
Thats similar to the "Do not use orally" (sp?) on Preparation H. There must be a sad story to go along with that one. | ||
| Davegess |
Rocket our legal systems, despite having inherited ours from you, have gone in wildly divergent ways regarding liability in civil matters. First, as I understand it, in your system no lawyer can be paid a contingency based on winning, the fees and costs are paid up front by the plaintiff and are solely the plaintiffs responsibility. Here the lawyer will take you case for FREE if they think they can win because they can then collect all expenses and a generous paycheck (ussually 1/3 fo the total)for their efforts. The US system encourages us to sue anytime a lawyer thinks he can get a entity with deep pockets to pay up. The British system makes it almost difficult to sue thus discouraging frivolous suits but also discouraging justifiable suits for product liability. The US system also allows juries to award stupid amounts of money to people. These amount are often overturned on appeal but the defendants have to drop big bucks to get to that point, they ussually just settle, pay some undisclosed sum, and avoid the whole mess. Personally I think we need to move our system closer to yours but certainly not the whole way there. |
