| Author | Message | ||
     Lornce  |
Am interested to hear from anyone with experience of 88" kits on their Buells. Been humming and hawwing a while now about kitting the S2 or S1 and wondered about reliability issues. The other day I dropped in on a buddy who races and 88" X1 and he showed me a broken Millenium cylinder barrel. Appears to have cracked horizontally in line with the top surface of what's left of the engine case (after boring for 88" fitment) and then running vertically to the end of the cyl. sleeve spigot. Is this sort of failure at all common? TIA for any information you may be able to offer. Come spring I'd REALLY like to have Buell power enough to pull the liquid cooled Ducatis up Mosport's back straight. Lornce | ||
| 1313  |
When I got my latest NRHS catalog I was wondering why all the cylinders pictured in the catalog were Millenium and there was a general note that they have now switched to Axtell Aluminum cyclinders for all their kits. Could this possibly be why? Just wondering... 1313 | ||
| Firemanjim  |
Nope. I had no problems with mine--until I overstressed the stock rods-- | ||
| Buellriderm2  |
Lornce, I've seen that failure twice before, and both times it was caused by cooling fins in between the cylinders not being machined down far enough. When the customers installed the cylinders, and then torqued down the heads, the fins in the center of the "V" butted against each other and put a ton of lateral pressure on the cylinder spigots. In both other cases the cylinders broke almost immediately after the motor was started for the first time. I addressed this concern with the manufacturer several times before we made the change to Axtell to no avail. The 88" kit is actually very steadfast, and in many ways more harmonious than the stock configuration. Being a square motor, they have excellent balance and of course the power and torque potential is incredible with the right parts built up around it. If you have any more questions about the benefits of these packages please feel free to give me a call or drop me an e-mail anytime. Justin @ NRHS | ||
| Lornce |
Justin, Thanks for the information. Seems a remarkable engineering oversight on the part of Millenium. And the Axtell cylinders require no fin clearance machine work? I have several questions I'd love the benefit of your opinion on. S2: Am primarily using this bike for street/sport and touring duties, so durability is a primary design goal. Run with Euro spec pullies (55/29) T-Storm top end, Lightning cams and stock '98 S3 flywheels. Don't anticipate ever spooling it beyond 6k-ish or so. How would you suggest building an 88" motor for this purpose with regard to cams, heads and carb choice etc.? S1: Am currently using for track days and Ducati Club racetrack events etc. T-Storm top end, race kit exhaust, ignition etc. Using the stock '96 flywheels (which I'm guessing would limit prudent rpm's to 6.8k or so) how would you suggest building this to 88" with regard to heads, cams, carb, exhaust etc? Thanks for any information you may be able to provide: It'll go a long way to helping me formulate a budget. best, Lornce | ||
| Wyckedflesh  |
sits down and takes notes as Lornce's questions are right in line with the S3 engine he is looking at building | ||
| Firemanjim |
Lornce,the stock S-2 wheels work really well with the 88" especially where you want to use it.Touring and street duties.The lighter flywheels are really more for the high rpm racer guys.Mine felt unreal with the S-2 flywheels.And you will hate the 29/55 combo.Way too high geared.No get up and go--ask the Aussies or European guys.I have sold several rear pulleys to them to change to US specs.Stick with the stock or get a 30 tooth front.The 88" will make the stock S-2 gearing rock. | ||
| Lornce |
Thanks for your impressions, Jim. I do like the mass dampened smooth of the S2, but I like the immediacy of the S3's engine response, too. Of the two, think I'd be prepared to live with the mild buzz in return for the sharper engine response. I don't find the S3's additional vibe bothersome. In fact, it's a pretty smooth mill, too. Though not, as you say, as smooth as the stock S2 wheels. I'm already running 29/55 pullies on the S2 with the T-Storm top end, and I really like it. Granted, it's not as spritely as the 29/61 combo, but it's useful enough for my riding style (inertia maintenance) and provides nice relaxed highway running. The expressways around Southern Ontario move along "pretty nicely". What's your opinion on carb and cams for an 88" "sport touring" motor? Thanks again for your input, Jim. I really am intrigued by the idea of a gruntier S2. | ||
| Firemanjim |
I had a Mikuni 42 and Red Shift 585 cams(I think) and the response was very nice.And if you are planning on a Baker you will NEED to loose the 55t.I had no problems seeing 90 cruising easy with the Baker,27/61 combo.80 mph was 3700 rpm. And motor saw 7500rpm more than once--- | ||
| Buellriderm2 |
Lornce, Here's what I would suggest S2 Street/touring 88" = 88" Axtell kit, Stage III CNC Porting on your TS heads, Screaming Eagle .536 cams, Mikuni HSR 42mm, and of course something good and functional for an air cleaner and exhaust. This package would be absolutely bomb-proof, everyday reliable in every way. We built a motor similar to this for a customer in Europe last year and it was one of the most fun bikes I've ever had the pleasure of riding. Not huge horsepower (113 rwhp) but big torque (105 lbs.ft.) and it made more than 95 pounds for MOST of the rev range. Best of all, with a milder cam like that you're talking about a very, very stable powerplant that should give you years of worry-free duty. The S1 I would set-up quite a bit different. NRHS/Axtell 88" kit, Stage III porting on your TS heads, Red Shift .585 cams, JIMS hydrosolid lifters, Hurricane adjustable pushrods, S&S roller rockers, Mikuni 45mm, some manner of adjustable ignition (Dyna 2KI), and a Force Pipe. Even with the old heavy flywheels this is a big power set-up and would put most if not all of those 748 boys in your rear view. Brutal power delivery in the mid-range and nearly limitless top-end power even if you kept your rev-limiter set at 7K. Despite being much more aggressive, the Red Shifts have a nice lobe on them and stay in good control generally and would give you good longevity for your weekend Duc hunting trips. That's how I'd build 'em if they were my bikes anyway. -Justin @ NRHS (Message edited by buellriderm2 on December 14, 2004) | ||
| Buellriderm2 |
Oh and by the way, having gone to the University of Wyoming, I can say your Avatar is truly disturbing!  | ||
| Kcbill |
Lornce I have been running an 88" for a few years now. I have a 98 S3. I have put 24K on this motor. It has held up fine. I am running S&S heads that are highly modified. I used them because that was the best thing at the time. The guys at NRHS have perfected the Thunderstorm Heads now and if I had it to do over I would use them. I am running the 585 red shift cams, 45 Mikuni. I have the Euro rear pulley and have run it. The bike is more fun with the stock pulley. The Euro pulley will allow you to run 170mph. That will give a duck a good run. You will give up some gas mileage. Don't use the S&S carb. Horrid gas mileage. Like on reserve at about 110 miles if you behave. I also have the roller rockers, Jims hydro solids, 2000 flywheels, flywheel scraper, and external oil return lines from the heads. The bike has made 125hp and 100tq. I had some pinging and had to go to a thicker head gasket. The tq. was at 109. The pump gas around here is 102 octane at best. The guys at NRHS will set you up right so you don't have any problem. My motor was one of the first street motors to make those numbers. They have perfected that set up alot sense then. You can't go wrong dealing with AAron. Cycle Rama is another good bunch to deal with. | ||
| Lornce |
Thanks for all the feedback, gentlemen. No plans for a Baker gearbox, Jim. Stock works nicely, imho. Bill, yours sounds like a complete animal of a street bike. Good on you. Justin, many thanks for your thoughts on engine mods: Nothing speaks like experience and you've given me much to consider. I'll be in touch in the New Year. best of the season, Lornce p.s. here's hoping your wyoming experience is well behind you, now.  | ||
| Lornce |
Justin, Have had time to peruse your excellent and informative catalogue and price list and am now armed with another few questions. At the Stage III level of head mod, is there any operative difference in performance or flow characteristics between XB and T-Storm heads? Or is the chief advantage at that stage of development primarily in the lighter valve and spring components of the XB heads? Pursuant to that: do Stage III XB heads require aftermarket valve train components to control valve motion with high lift cams? ie: s&s rockers, hydrasolid lifters etc? Or are these parts redundant with lower mass valves and lighter spring pressures? Also: do XB heads require XB specific intake manifolds? Am leaning towards XB heads and a 44mm cv carb for use with the S2 modded as you describe above, and would need an appropriate manifold, no? Are there XB head breather issues which need to be addressed when adapting to older motors? ie: will they work with my S2's cf intake and backing plate? Or should I just stick with Stage III T-Storms? Thanks for any info you're able to point to or provide. regards, Lornce |
