| Author | Message | ||
     Nxtr |
 To all, Here is a neat oil filter I just installed on my 00 X1. They are available for a wide range of motorcycles as well. This is one well-designed filter. The Canister is machined from a solid block of 6061 T6 Billet Aluminum polished, including heat dissipating fins, the filter is Medical grade Type 304 Stainless Steel mesh filtering down to 35 microns, along with Magnetic Prefiltering by means of a Nickel Plated Neodymium Magnet with a bypass filter that opens at 7lbs. A Spriol Lok Device holds the filter in the canister. Installation is a breeze and removal should be as well with the cool little non-marring removal tool. Oh ya and did I mention that this filter flows 7 times the oil in the same amount of time verses a paper filter, which I believe may reduce head breather oil problems we have all experienced. One point of caution however, included in the package is a different adapter nipple with instruction to remove the stock HD piece and replace with there's, the problem is that the new one is shorter on the end installed to the engines filter mount, this does not allow the ball and spring device to work properly, resulting in the oil pressure idiot light to illuminate at idle. The bottom line is the stock one on the Buell is fine allowing for the filter to get 2.5 to 3 turns prior to gasket contact. Another area is when I went to remove my stock HD nipple I found it finger tight, which could have been a bad one down the road, I recommend removing the stock HD nipple clean up the oil on the thread areas and use the provided with the kit Loctite and reinstall the stock HD nipple. Again it is a great filter in my opinion, others may feel it to be a little pricey, and I do believe it will pay for itself though. Find more info here, http://www.scottsperformance.com/products.php?PartType=12&Bike=Buell Take care, one of the FEW Buell riders in Mississippi. Nick | ||
| Buellistic |
ATT: Nxtr Have been running a FORD Motorcraft FL-1A oil filter for years. Have a 97 S3T with 46K. Heads have never been off it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! At Wall-Mart the filter sells for less than $3.00. In buelling BUELLISTIC and/or Hardley-Harley | ||
| Blake |
Nxtr, I don't know where you live, but if the temperature ever drops below 50 you may want to devise an insulative sock to cover your new aluminum finned oil filter. One of the worst things you can do to your oil is not let it attain normal operating temperature where it gets hot enough inside the engine to vaporize any accumulated moisture. The unimpressive 35 micron rating is kinda scary too. The new filters provide 10 micron filtering capability. On a cruiser loping along and under little strain that filter might be a good idea. On a high performance Buell engine it is a risk I personally would avoid. Your comment about flow resistance while sounding like a "good" thing actually indicates how much less effective the filter is. Less flow resistance in the filter provides no advantage in your engine. The Buell oil pump is a positive displacement pump. No matter what the resistance, it is going to pump the same volume of oil. I do like the magnet idea though.  FL-1A, I'm gonna try that next time Lafayette. Thanks, Blake | ||
| Dueller |
Hey Nick... Couldn't get the web reference to come up. Glad you're back in the glorious state of Mississippi which is Choctaw for "Only 9 Buells." Give me a call if you're gonna be in Jackson any time soon so I can see the set up in person. Blake: It might get below 50 here the second week in February. jim (the other Buell guy in Mississippi) | ||
| Andrew |
I salvaged a few Neodym (sp) magnets from DOA hard drives. Stick one on the end of your filter and "Hey Presto". If it's magnetic and in the oil, it'll stop at the magnet. Of course the paranoid mechanic in me figures if the magnet takes a hike. Those magnatized particles will be looking for new homes through out my old happy motor. YMMV! | ||
| Buellistic |
ATT: Blake FYI my first name is spelled LaFayette. French meaning "The Fayette". If you put an FL-1A filter on your M2 you can go ahead an put that 1/2 quart that is left over if you use the short or long H-D filter. You will now have a 3 quart system!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! In buelling BUELLISTIC and/or Hardley-Harley | ||
| Cowboy |
Att. Bullistic.....Blake I have switched to the ford filter, and at this time it seems to do a good job, However I took a trip to the mountains to play in the super twisties and I found that after trailering my bike for some hrs and leaving the bike stright up right for 24 hrs there was a slight knock in the rockers for a few seconds that has never happened when bike was left on kick stand for days. Could this be the result of not having a check valve in filter??????? I would like some in put on this as I really like the extra volume of oil. | ||
| Nxtr |
Blake, I don't know where you live, but if the temperature ever drops below 50 you may want to devise an insulative sock to cover your new aluminum finned oil filter. One of the worst things you can do to your oil is not let it attain normal operating temperature where it gets hot enough inside the engine to vaporize any accumulated moisture. I like the sock idea, but dont think the fins cool it to much to the point as would a full blown oil cooler where the oil will not get hot enough to vaporize any moisture. The unimpressive 35 micron rating is kinda scary too. The new filters provide 10 micron filtering capability. On a cruiser loping along and under little strain that filter might be a good idea. On a high performance Buell engine it is a risk I personally would avoid. 10 microns about as resrictive as you can get, and your right it would be great for a cruiser seeing that the only filter HD sells is the new improved 10 micron for there bikes which means that they get pawned off on the Buells as well. Simply because they are better for a sport bike?, or maybe because they dont want to have market a seperate filter that no one would buy. in persective human hair is 75 to 140 microns and clay is 39 microns, 35 microns is 00138"(just over a thousands of an inch)good enough for the aero-space industry, which in my opinion is more than enough filtering required for the HD motor. Your comment about flow resistance while sounding like a "good" thing actually indicates how much less effective the filter is. Less flow resistance in the filter provides no advantage in your engine. The Buell oil pump is a positive displacement pump. No matter what the resistance, it is going to pump the same volume of oil. I disagree, 1. Oil is gravity-fed from the oil tank to the pump, to the oil filter mount, to the filter through the filter medium then the filter adapter where it opens the check ball requiring 4-6 psi allowing it to flow to the crankcase feed galley, ETC... with a 10 micron medium and 20-50 oil vs. 35 micron SS mesh which is not susceptable to swelling from water as paper is. Resistance can only be overcome by the way of bypass valve and that doesnt do much for filtering the oil what so ever. Blake these are just my opinions and they dont mean nothing. Thanks for the interesting counter-point though. Mississippi, Buelling. all 10 of us. Nick | ||
| Buellistic |
ATT: Cowboy Sounds like nobody has told you to turn the gas off when you trailer your BUELL. One should always turn the gas off when you stop and park it(trailers included)!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! In buelling BUELLISTIC and/or Hardley-Harley | ||
| Cowboy |
well I sure did worm off you are right. thanks a lot. I sure did not want to stop using the big filter. Thanks again . Cowboy | ||
| Buellbob |
My 2 cents worth on oil coolers. I almost bought a similar type spin on filter/cooler from per-form. Then I read about by-pass valves for cooler weather riding etc. Instead I bought one of those 10 sec. slip on coolers off e-bay. J.C. Witney also sells them. Anyway my point is its got the cooling fins same as the spin on set-ups, is chrome and looks nice and I can take it off if it gets to cold. It has a claimed temp. drop of 21 deg. but I can't prove it to work or not but at least it dresses up the front of the engine a bit. Bob  | ||
| Blake |
Nxtr, After checking out the site, I have to say I too was impressed with their marketing speil. And the filter looks pretty cool too. Real aerospace exotic looking. However, if the majority of the particles causing wear in an internal combustion piston engine are between 10 and 35 microns, a 35 micron filter could allow your engine to incure a LOT of wear. Their use of the aerospace connection is impressive sounding marketing spiel. You might consider the following relevent... 1. Where in aerospace is an internal combustion piston engine used? 2. Where in aerospace does a closed lubrication system encounter a severe wear environment like exists between cylinder wall and piston-rings? 3. Where in aerospace is lubrication initially denied to critical wear surfaces upon startup of a machine/engine? 4. Where in aerospace is a lubrication system constantly at risk of attack by direct injestion of dirt and ambient contaminants? 5. Are there any aerospace applications that require more rigorous filtering, down even to sub 10 micron integrity? What filters are used for those requirements? 6. In what specific aerospace applications are the Scott type filters used? Hydraulic systems? If so, great; put one on your brake system. "1. Oil is gravity-fed from the oil tank to the pump, to the oil filter mount, to the filter through the filter medium then the filter adapter where it opens the check ball requiring 4-6 psi allowing it to flow to the crankcase feed galley, ETC" I don't know where you got the idea that the oil is gravity fed to the engine/filter. It isn't. Is it actually ture that that though gravity abviously helps, the oil pump actually sucks oil from the tank? If you have a service manual, take a look at the lubrication system diagram. I'd rather have a clogged 10 or 20 micron filter that is letting 50% of the oil bypass than a free flowing 35 micron filter that allows a bunch of 10 to 35 micron particles circulate throughout my engine. If I change my filter as recommended, it probably won't clog or have to function in bypass mode. If I use the larger filter I have improved capacity and flowability. I'm not meaning to pick on you, but you seem to have some misconceptions about the lubrication system of our engines. Most importantly, understand that contaminants are the #1 cause of wear in these engines. Then, to be fair, we need to understand that even a 10 micron rated filter will not stop 100% of 10 micron sized particles in a single pass. To understand the effectiveness of any filter one must look at its efficiency ratings versus a range of particle sizes. I didn't see any efficiency ratings for the Scott's filter. Kinda makes me wonder. | ||
| Nxtr |
Blake, I don't know where you got the idea that the oil is gravity fed to the engine/filter. It isn't. Page 3-35 Buell 99/00 X1 service manual, I quote "1. Oil is GRAVITY-FED from the oil tank to the gerotor-style pump through a feed hose. Oil enters the feed section and fills a cavity located under the feed pump. 2. The feed pump transfers the oil from the inlet cavity through a feed hose to the oil filter mount. ETC..." I also agree that there are no efficiency ratings for the Scotts filter, but the again who makes the 10 micron HD filter? and where did you find their efficiency ratings? Why is where ever you look you get a different spin as to levels of filtration regarding specific manufactures, and finally what is the difference between Nominal and Absolute. Is it first pass or the ten-thousandth pass that it actually is cloged with enough crap to filter to the 10 micron level. I am still trying it out 35 Micron/magnet and all, which i still say is completly fin for the HD motor seeing that prior to the intro of HD's new and improved "Down to" 10 micron level filter, What was their old filters that was working just fine, micron rating. Heck I would guess the in the oil tank filter in my 74 Sportster is probaly rated at 350 microns if that . Blake your not picking on me in fact, this is turning out to be a great conversation since it forces info gathering that would be otherwise missed. P.S. thanks for the info on the sock device I knew that those damn foam can coolers every one wants to give you would come in handy for something, cut to length it works great. TM, Nick | ||
| Blake |
Nick, C'mon now. Didn't you, in support of a low flow resistance filter, say that the oil was gravity fed all the way through to the filter and the engine? It isn't. Gravity is only a factor between tank and pump. And even then, I think the pump actually does have the ability to suck oil from the tank. Witness the low elevation and relatively weak gravitational flow benefit provided by the XB9's swingarm encased oil tank. I'm guessing the pump hasn't changed it's basic mode of operation. If I recall correctly, the older HD filters are rated at 20 microns. I don't know the efficiency, but it has to be significant (>50% ?) to garner that rating. If we were really interested in a comparison we should have some analysis done. Maybe Scott's already has and would be willing to provide it? Glad you're taking this debate in the spirit intended. I can be a real asshole sometimes. Thanks, Blake | ||
| Nxtr |
Blake, Sorry  I was paraphrasing from the manual regarding my earlier post. After re-reading it does lead you to believe it is gravity fed to the filter. You are correct as I stated in the later post it is only gravity fed to the pump. You do make a good point though and I was thinking about it on my way home from work, “How does it work on the XB9’s”. I don’t have the answer I don’t own one or the manual yet. I am waiting for the hopefully to be produced replacement that will get me to trade in my X1. Maybe someone with an XB9 service manual can shed some light here! In regards to analysis, Scotts is a retailer the filters are made by K&P engineering, I have been in contact with Dave Fisher of K&P regarding the problem I discovered with the adapter provided not working with the ball and spring device, I will see if he can provide me with some info. On a good note though Scotts Performance by the end of July will now have the gray anodized version of the filter cup as seen on their site (which is actually a Ducati filter cup) available as an option for the Buell filter cups for those who are like my self allergic to HD style shiny things in stead of the, since it fit the HD’s and the Buell has an HD motor the Buell guys would prefer it shiny as well. I do enjoy the debate, and learn something new everyday from it. As far as being a real asshole no worries, since I have been a soldier in the Army for the past 19 years 11 months, and 21 days. I can truly say I have dealt with, if not on a daily basis my share of real assholes, not excluding myself at times . TM, Nick | ||
| Mbweld |
primary gear oil?ANY ONE USING AMSOIL?{75/90?) | ||
| Blake |
Topic?  | ||
| Buellistic |
Mbweld: The NEW OIL is SCREAMN"EAGLE SYC3 for the year 2003!!! In buelling LaFayette | ||
| Roadrunr |
Yeah if'n you want to pay $3 more a quart than Mobil 1 for it. My STEALER wants $5.60 a quart.......... PASS.......  | ||
| M1combat |
I think the XB's use a dry sump oil pump . | ||
| Funjimmy |
Interesting oil filter advise from my Buell/H-D dealer. I went in to purchase an oil filter, and the parts person asked if wanted the Super Premium filter (10 microns)or the regular one. Naturally I said that I wanted a black Super Premium filter, but they only had a chrome one in the Buell Shop. So this parts person calls over to the H-D Shop and requests a black super premium oil filter for a Sportster. What does the H-D rep bring over, a black regular oil filter, along with the comment that H-D only recommends the Super Premium filter to be used on Twin Cam H-D engines because the fine filter element is to restrictive for the Sportster/Buell oil pump, and the extra load could damage the pump. He went on to warn that the added resistance could blow oil hoses as well. Now I know that some unfortunate Buell owners have reported oil pump drive gear failures. And there have been conversations regarding the best oil pump to use in a Buell engine, but is there any link to this new Super Premium oil filter and oil related engine failures. Cheers FunJimmy | ||
| Softailbuell |
My old man used Amsoil products for 20ish years on just about everything he could. Curently, I'm seriously considering switching to the Amsoil "Superduty" 20 micron filter (yes they make one for Buells). Has anyone tried one of these filters, or know of a comparison between this filter and others out there? | ||
| Softailbuell |
Blake, Re your Aerospace questions. Answer: Anything that uses a propeller. | ||
| Blake |
Karl (Softailbuell), The Titanic was an "aerospace" vehicle? When someone tells me that their filters are utilized in "aerospace" applications, I imagine filters used in spacecraft, rocketry, satellite, and high speed jet engined aircraft. Characterization of a filter used on piston engined airplanes as being an "aerospace" component is a bit dishonest. The term "aerospace" conjures images of rocketry and space vehicles and supersonic jet air craft, not piston engined airplanes. If the Scott's type filters are used on piston engined airplanes but none of the other types of "aerospace" vehicles, then they should simply say that their filters are utilized in aircraft. I take them to mean that their filters are used in aerospace vehicles, including those operating in the upper reaches of our atmosphere and into space. Regardless, touting a motorcycle oil filter for its applications in "aerospace" vehicles is mere hype. When they come out with a better filter rating, I'll get interested. Until then, I'm sticking with the 10 micron at 90%+ first pass efficiency rated synthetic media filters that I can purchase at my local auto parts store. | ||
| Blake |
In answer to your question... I'm not familiar with Amsoil's 20 micron filter, but there are plenty of high efficiency 10 micron filters that I would choose over any 20 micron filter. I believe that the old HD paper filters were 20 micron filters. In filtering capability, 10 is better than 20, so I would recommend using the new HD synthetic media 10 micron filter or one of the comparable aftermarket 10 micron filters; Mobil-1 sells one, FRAM sells a high quality one, lots of filter brands have high end 10 micron filters now. One of the higher rated ones was by AC Delco if I recall correctly. There is another thread in here somewhere where filtering capability was discussed at length including a listing of the best filters available. Cheers, | ||
| Softailbuell |
I'll agree that saying a motor oil filter uses "aerospace" technology, or has "aerospace" applications is more marketing than anything. However the basic fact remains that majority of the flights in our country (and likely) the world under 500miles or so are made by piston driven, internal combustion aircraft, comercial or private. So like it or not, that's a valid point. | ||
| Softailbuell |
I don't know if their primary filter goes down to 10 microns or not. It's a bit on the hard size to dig that info out of their website. I do know they have a bypass filter that goes down to 5. *shrug* | ||
| Rick_a |
I've got one of those Scotts filters. Mine didn't come with any adapter. An interesting note is that I mentioned the magnet feature to a long time mechanic, and he told me, "there shouldn't be any ferrous metal floating in your oil, if you have that's trouble"...I guess she's been in trouble  | ||
| Bluelightning |
Here's an interesting document from Fram regarding the actual validity of Micron Ratings. Never really crossed my mind that individual labs would come up with different rating numbers by tasting the same batch of filters: http://www.fram.com/tech/FluidFilterRating.pdf On that note, anyone ever tried the Fram X-2 filter? Supposed to have "All the single-pass efficiency of a FRAM Extra-Guard® Oil Filter but with 70% more capacity vs. leading competitor's average!" (based on Fram website) Might be a good way to get a little extra oil in the loop if it fits. Equivalent for the FL-1a would be for a 5.0 Mustang (Fram P/N XG16 for X-2 filter) | ||
| Buellistic |
Bluelighting: Lets cut the chase here!!! There was a Harley-Davidson Service Bulletin on using one of their lastest and greatest HIGH MICRON filters... It stated not to use that FILTER on SPORTSTER motors because the "OIL PRESSURE LIGHT" would come on!!! If the "OIL PRESSURE LIGHT" was comming on does anyone have a clue what might be going on in the "OIL SYSTEM"??? If you want to do you engine a "FAVOR", put a oil filter in the return line to the oil tank!!! What this does for you is to cut the wear factor on the oil pump by 50%!!! Run a pincil magnet around in the oil and bottom of you oil tank, you will be surprised!!! The return line filter stops this!!! Another plus thing to do is put a screen over the cam gear cavity opening to the oil pump as in the sump screen in cars to keep any metal out of oil pump(up to about 1977 there were screens in SPORTSTER engines)... As for my 97S3T, it has 76,668.5 miles as of the last ride... Run a FORD Motorcraft Fl-1A and a FORD Motorcraft FL836 in the return line... Have ran SYN3 oil ever since it came out... The "TOP END" has never off and am going for 100K!!! Also run a SPORSTER oil cooler, big twin thermostat, and engine fan... In BELLing LaFayette | ||
| Rick_a |
You're just not beating it hard enough...  That's too many screens and filters for me...I'd rather deal with it...or at least let my engine. | ||
| Ara |
Buellistic, how have you got your return line filter plumbed? Got photos??? | ||
| Buellistic |
Ara: Pictures are on the way to your E-MAIL ADDRESS!!! In BUELLing LaFayette | ||
| Jeffsd |
LaFayette, Please send me a copy of the photos showing your return line route. I'm gonna hit Wally World today to get the Fl1A filter and would like to see your return line setup. Thanks, Jeff (Bueller from Mississippi currently living in Georgia) | ||
| Ara |
There's a falacy in the discussion about the particle size that various filters claim they filter out. The Scotts Performance filter claims that the absolute largest particle that their filter will pass is 35 microns. Mobile claims that their Mobile 1 filters will filter out particles as small as 10 microns. The difference is where you look for particles. With the Scotts Performance filter they measure the largest particle in the circulating oil. With Mobil and the rest of off the shelf filters, they look for the smallest particle in the filter. The claims are dissimilar, the tests are different, and therefore the results are not comparable. It's very easy to conceive that, although off the shelf filters may capture 10 micron particles, they may also pass 35 micron and larger particles. I've been studying this for a while and short of lab tests, I don't know of a way for the average consumer to debunk these conflicting claims. | ||
| Buellistic |
Jeffsd: E-MAIL me(Ljenne73c@verizon.net) so "i" can get you e-mail address ... Will Send PICTURES and "INFO" ... In BUELLing LaFayette | ||
| Buellistic |
Ara: For get about that MICRON "BUELLschitte" !!! You are running a low pressure oil pump to a roller bearing engine !!! The MOTOR COMPANY(HDI) put out some of these HIGH MICRON OIL FILTERS and it caused the OIL PRESURE LAMP to "COME ON" on the SPORTSTER ENGINES(ie: Tube Frame BUELLs) and there was a SERVICE BULLETIN on this .... In BUELLing LaFayette | ||
| Ara |
LaFayette, Yes, I know. However, I've been running the Mobil 1 equivalent of the Ford FL-300 (shortened version of the FL-1) and no oil lamp. The only point I was trying to make, and I think you'll agree with me when you think about it, is that what the off-the-shelf filters claim in terms of smallest particle captured vs. what Scott Performance claimes in terms of largest particle passed cannot be compared. And that, in the absence of additional information, any conclusions based upon those disparate claims must be erroneous. We need more information. | ||
| Buellistic |
Ara: If you really want to do you engine a favor, put in a return line oil filer ... Will send you pictures of mine if you e-mail me so "i"(Ljenne73c@verizon.net) can get yours ??? What will help these engines more than a HIGH MICON FILTER is a "OIL COOLER", RETURN LINE OIL FILTER, A FL-1A which increases the engine oil capacity as 2 1/2 quarts is not enough ... In BUELLing LaFayette (Message edited by buellistic on May 18, 2005) |
