| Author | Message | ||
     Typeone |
I'm in the process of digging for clues but... I had my bike running so smooth before it's 1K service, TFI fiddling was paying off with smiles, decided to have my dealer throw in some Pro-Series plugs while they were doing the 1K service and on the way home the thing was popping like mad on decel. Obviously my TFI settings are no longer valid (4,8,5,7:45). Hmm. I rode at 3200 RPM to let things settle in but no go. Took a nice long ride too. Now I'm back to fiddling with the TFI again  any clue why this would happen? I also had a few nasty stumbles at 3500 - 4000 RPM. None of this was present before the TPS reset and pro plugs. Grrrr. Mods other than plugs haven't changed. Special OPS pipe, swiss cheese airbox, no snorkel and a K&N. I did have a little popping before but it was enough to sound cool, not like it is now. (Message edited by typeone on June 10, 2005) | ||
| Brewtus |
Are those "Pro Series Plugs" the ones that have the "V" shaped ground electrode? | ||
| Typeone |
Yup. Pro-Series Performance Spark Plug #32822-01Y | ||
| Buelltroll |
You just added more spark to your mix,Of course your setting are'nt gonna mesh. | ||
| Typeone |
troll, OK, understood but i didnt expect THAT much difference from the new plugs. more test sessions tomorrow, i'm going to try backing off pots 2 and 3 to cure the stumbles between 3500 - 4500 and pot 4 at 8 or 8.25 based on recent comments from george. guess i was expecting things to smooth out a bit more with the 'more efficient' plug. not throw my settings out the window. wanna help me understand what 'more spark in my mix' means or direct me to a link/thread? trying to understand the pieces to my puzzle here. | ||
| Buelltroll |
Fuel,Air,Spark thats the mix. I'm sure theres a technical term for it and theres ALOT of people who know ALOT more about these bikes than me on this board. I don't even have a TFI I've just learned to live with my D&D popping. Al from asb said rule # 2 is if something is messed up start with the last place you wrenched.(or sumthin like that) n that just sounds logical to me(the whole AF ratio thing n all) (Message edited by buelltroll on June 11, 2005) | ||
| M1combat |
Did they reset your AFV? Isn't popping on deceleration a sign of a rich condition? If so, I can't imagine new spark plugs causing that. I think I would change #4 to 7:15-7:30. | ||
| Max |
I change my plugs to pro-series plugs do to I was run rich and popping. The plugs were fouled and maybe to cold for the racing kit.I don't use the TFI,but I have the full race kit and open box air kit.In nut shell the bike is run better with the new plugs. It could be TFI that not work right. | ||
| Brewtus |
I would try another type of plug. Something that's not platinum. I have tried platinum plugs in a lot of performance vehicles and have actually lost power. Just a suggestion. | ||
| 99buellx1 |
"added more spark" Now that's funny!  | ||
| Typeone |
OK, maybe that's my confusion then. From reading back-posts I thought popping was a sign of a lean condition (?) it would make more sense that it would be rich from the rest of the picture. The plugs that were pulled out were a little dark but not totally drenched in oil. Def. not as tan as I would have liked though. The look of the plugs would make more sense that my settings were already on the rich side but that damn popping was making me think she was lean. I'll keep digging through the archives. Thanks for the comments, guys. I'm going to to try backing off my TFI settings to see if things improve. I'll pull the front plug after a good set of miles and see if its moving more towards tan. M1, I was assuming they reset the AFV, but I'll call and ask. My tech didn't like that i had drilled out the airbox, said i'm probably getting a lot of hot air drawn in. I remember reading about dyno results or something from Jerseyguy (i think) that the slightly warmer air was moot. So i didn't opt for a heat blanket or anything. If no luck there then I'm throwing the stock plugs back in or try a set of NGKs. Always used those back in the day but figured I'd give the Buell set a try. Hmm. | ||
| Typeone |
99buell.. . i was confused by that comment too. the platinum V is only more efficient (supposedly), right? not 'more spark' necessarily? anyone know how the heat range of the Pro-series compares to the stock? (yes, i'll search for this too) so much to learn  i'll keep digging to understand this platinum stuff along with A/F, etc. problem is i'm testing it all by hand/feel. someday i'll get on a dyno, its just more $$$! | ||
| Max |
brewus, I never heard of that before about those type plugs.  You may not have the gapping right or high output coil and coil doesn't put out voltage. I have bosch v in my S-10 blazer with up grade wire and coil the truck spin it tires. Which never did before. The pro plugs are hotter plug give more spark. The gap on plugs may not right. They are not pregapped out the box.So pull the plugs and check the gapping on them. I put mind in this last week and my XB12R better every now.I can wait to dyno it.  | ||
| Brewtus |
I still think those plugs are a fraud. I have been through many automotive classes and the only way you can get more spark delivery is with a lower resistance plug. How do you get more power from a fancy ground on the plug? One of the classes was taught by the inventor of the Nology plugs and wires. Check out the site http://www.nology.com/ | ||
| Typeone |
Just talked to my tech. He did rest the AFV and the TPS was up at 120 rather than 100, he zeroed to 100. He said he took it out before resetting and felt it was, 'falling on it's face' a little. I never experienced this but definitely did after the reset. Got to one of my favorite corners, nice RPM and gear as usual, went to crack it once through the corner and CHOKE. thing just went flat. He felt the plugs looked OK, but I have a feeling that POT 2 is way too high and overall I'm getting too much fuel dumped in. I'm still totally confused about popping on decel. In all my archive reading here everyone has a different take. some say lean, some say rich. to me it makes sense that unburned fuel would ignite in the pipe creating the pop on decel... too much fuel, right? well, some have said the opposite. Grrrr. More testing later. | ||
| Brewtus |
Typeone, I have the Force pipe on my 9s, and it too was dumping fuel due to pot2. The only way I could get rid of the 'falling on it's face' stumble was to turn it all the way off. One of the techs at my dealer told me the same thing. | ||
| 99buellx1 |
Spark will ALWAYS follow the path of least resistance. There is no more voltage going to the plug, so why would it make any difference? I personally dont see the point of the V plug, the spark will not split it will always travel to the ground that has the least resistance. I see no advantage. Just my ideas, I'm not an expert so I could be completely off base. | ||
| Brewtus |
Just sharing what I learned. Check this out. http://www.nology.com/silver.html | ||
| 12bolt |
99Buell, Working in the High Voltage field one of the first things you learn is that current will flow in all paths, more will flow in the path of least resistance but you will always have current flow in those parallel paths. Of course with these V type electrodes if one side of the "V" is marginaly closer to the center electrode than the other you may only get a sprark from the closer point due to the dielectric strength being less on that side (less resistance to jump the gap). (Message edited by 12bolt on June 11, 2005) | ||
| 99buellx1 |
Cool, thanks. Am I correct to assume that you will not get two concurrent spark paths one to each side of the V? | ||
| Brewtus |
Yup. only one spark per ignition fire. goes to either one side of the V or the other. Whichever has the least resistance. | ||
| 12bolt |
I have not seen with my own two eyes but I think if both sides of the electrode were close to the same distance from the center electrode you would have to sparks. Maybe someone will chime in here that has actually tested one. | ||
| Typeone |
Here's some snaps of my stock plugs. Only 1129 miles on these, I think they look like things are running tad rich. The lighting makes them look a little lighter than they are, there is black soot on both. Def. not a lean condition. After another 1K miles I bet they could possibly foul. I ALWAYS let the bike warm up for 4-5min from a cold start while I gear up.   | ||
| Jedwele |
I think the popping is more likely caused from the TPS reset then the spark plugs, unless of course they are not gapped right. Also both lean and rich conditions can cause popping on decel. Rich there is unburned fuel, and when you get too lean, you get partial misfires which causes air/fuel mixture to hit the exhaust. But then again if the plugs are not gapped corectly it would cause incomplete combustion also. If nothing else throw the stock plugs back in if that doesn't fix it then you know its your TFI settings. | ||
| Izzinya |
"I still think those plugs are a fraud. I have been through many automotive classes and the only way you can get more spark delivery is with a lower resistance plug. How do you get more power from a fancy ground on the plug? One of the classes was taught by the inventor of the Nology plugs and wires. Check out the site http://www.nology.com/" i say throw out the plugs and run stock (or something close) ive seen at least a hundred buell/harleys run like CR@P because of the "splitfire" plugs most people believe that they will get better spark off of 2 sure you will (with 15:1 comp. high flow heads etc....) but with stock MOTORwork it does more harm than good not talking about exhaust,ac-mods but motorwork just what ive SEEN with my own 2 eyes Izzinya  (Message edited by izzinya on June 11, 2005) | ||
| Typeone |
Welp, after about 3hrs of testing today I have her running pretty damn good, or at least the way it was before the TPS reset. I dropped my settings waaay down on the TFI and have only popping on low RPM decel and just burble on high RPM decel and I think I can keep tuning it out. I went from 4, 8, 5, 7:45 to 3, 5, 4:15, 8:15. this setup was running awful nice. I went up on POT 4 because I still had slight surging at around 3500. Not sure if 8:15 will cure it yet. My idle was dropping to about 900RPM once she was real hot so I set that back to 1050 but couldn't take her for one last run. Should be MUCH better now and the slightly higher idle may cure a little more of the low RPM popping but its nothing like it was right after the service. Once thing that is still bugging me is I have a nasty knock (or is it a ping?) when rolling on hard from ~4000RPM lasting to about 4500 or so. My tech said, 'all these engines do it' but I'm not happy with that. It's done it since day one and I don't like it, sounds like it's causing damage. Sooo, TFI and popping are in a better place. Onto the next issue. Ugh. I'm going to keep researching this now and check my timing tomorrow. | ||
| Metalstorm |
In my automobiles I have never had success with splitfire plugs. I kept trying fancy expensive plugs but none worked better than cheap autolites, go figure. For two stroke engines however, I found Halo plugs are simply awesome. In four stroke engines they too are sadly disappointing. | ||
| Typeone |
I may in fact ditch those Pro-Series, or at least rip 'em out and check the gap. I took her out again today and she's running like crap. Figures, you let it outta your site (dealers hands) for a few days and it comes back a different animal. I need to call them again in the AM. Not pissed, just real disappointed cause they seem like great guys. Everything is outta wack right now except for the popping I wanted tamed. TFI settings seem to have cleared that up but the pinging was real bad today. From a dead start and up around 4K under load, awful sounding. I need to go buy a DMM so I can check the timing myself, not sure if I trust the dealer at this point. My primary was WAAAY over filled by them too. Grrrrr. (Message edited by typeone on June 12, 2005) | ||
| Starter |
Whilst ever you have one spark plug in the cylinder you will only get one spark with the XB ignition. To get the gap to the V the same would need to be done on an atomic level, and even then you'll only get one spark. The stock plugs are as good as any and will perform to their design capailities on 99% of the engines out there. | ||
| Fullpower |
yes, i think starter is on to something here. ran the oem factory plugs 10,000 miles on XB12, replaced them a few thousand miles ago, they still looked new. guess what i am running now? 10R12A, about 2 bucks apiece at the harley store. |
