| Author | Message | ||
     Ceejay |
yessir!  | ||
| Psyclonej |
Also doubles as an ashtray. | ||
| Court |
>>>>Will there be a retrofit kit available for the '08 owners? I should expound on my definitive "no". Buell has not totally ignored the 2008 owners. Insulation kit Part number C1580.2AM. It can be installed on a 2008, but you'd have to at a very minimum do an engine rotate. Frame-off would be easier. There will be further enhancements with each model year, much as there have been with the Corvette since 1953. It's a wonderful world. | ||
| Josh_ |
We need a central location for 08->09 upgrades. ie fuel injectors, gear indicator (tho since its part of the dash cluster, I doubt it), C1580.2AM Insulation kit, etc. | ||
| Electraglider_1997 |
I feel like Buell should pay me some engineering consulting fee for the Aerogel idea. From August 2007 http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/142 838/299637.html | ||
| Oddball |
Didn't know you were the tip of their research spear did you?  | ||
| Court |
>>>I feel like Buell should pay me some engineering consulting fee for the Aerogel idea. They mailed your check 3 times and it kept getting returned.  | ||
| Xl1200r |
Court I think you mean e-mailed. And he would have had to front $5,000 first. And travel to Zimbabwe. | ||
| Spiderman |
I feel like Buell should pay me some engineering consulting fee for the Aerogel idea. But your Idea was for the Uly not the 1125. | ||
| Josh_ |
C1580.2AM is not a valid part # per my dealer.... | ||
| Electraglider_1997 |
Them damn nigerians already owe me 3 million dollars. Maybe that's nigerian dollars. Crap, that equals 3 cents USD. | ||
| Court |
>>>C1580.2AM is not a valid part # per my dealer.... Patience. | ||
| Alans |
I suspect Buell will try to do something for anyone who owns an 1125R that does not have the aerogel installed. I base my opinion on the fact there are now reported cases of persons suffering actual burns to their legs while riding their 1125Rs. This, taken in conjunction with the fact Buell is outfitting all new bikes with material to lessen frame temperatures, indicating Buell's acknowledging a problem in this regard, doesn't seem to me to leave a lot of latitude to defend against a law-suit related to burns suffered while riding the 1125R. It sounds like there's some risk there. (Not to mention all the enthusiastic customer feedback BMC would gain when we learned they're addressing the issue.) Then again, what the heck do I know? (Message edited by alans on August 14, 2008) | ||
| Krassh |
>>>C1580.2AM is not a valid part # per my dealer.... Patience. Patience my A$$ I wanna order something! LOL, got the same for my dealer figured it was not in the system yet.  | ||
| Blake |
"I suspect Buell will try to do something for anyone who owns an 1125R that does not have the aerogel installed. I base my opinion on the fact there are now reported cases of persons suffering actual burns to their legs while riding their 1125Rs. " You can suffer actual burns just sitting out in the sun if you don't take proper precautions. Riding a high performance motorcycle is no different. Suggest to those with burned legs that they wear proper riding gear. "This, taken in conjunction with the fact Buell is outfitting all new bikes with material to lessen frame temperatures, indicating Buell's acknowledging a problem in this regard, doesn't seem to me to leave a lot of latitude to defend against a law-suit related to burns suffered while riding the 1125R. It sounds like there's some risk there. (Not to mention all the enthusiastic customer feedback BMC would gain when we learned they're addressing the issue.)" Such baloney is the scourge of the internet. | ||
| Alans |
"Suggest to those with burned legs that they wear proper riding gear." One of the persons reporting burns on this site is Hwyranger, a California Highway Patrolman. Perhaps he was riding in shorts, or in some other inappropriate attire. I'll leave it to you to educate him, regarding proper riding apparel. Your final comments seem to me to have no other purpose than to insult. As such, I don't have much to offer in response, here. | ||
| Buellborn |
Alans "This, taken in conjunction with the fact Buell is outfitting all new bikes with material to lessen frame temperatures, indicating Buell's acknowledging a problem in this regard, doesn't seem to me to leave a lot of latitude to defend against a law-suit related to burns suffered while riding the 1125R. It sounds like there's some risk there. (Not to mention all the enthusiastic customer feedback BMC would gain when we learned they're addressing the issue.)" Blake Such baloney is the scourge of the internet. What Part of his statement is upsetting you? The statement seems it may be hard to accept as a Buell fan, but true? Looks factual. | ||
| Oddball |
I've been a vocal critic here on things but I do applaud this development and have high hopes it and the engine updates will put all these problems in the past. Imagine if the '09 reviews rave about flawless injection, cool frame etc. Have the bike truly at the place Erik is quoted as saying. Just the rider and the road.   | ||
| Court |
The C1580.2AM is being installed in the 2009MY bikes and is a neat foil like layers separated by an effective insulating material with an adhesive on one side. It's one of those things that is very easy to install as part of the production process and would be prohibitive to retrofit. I confess to being one of those folks who's never had a heat problem. BUT . . . back when I was doing lots of test riding I'd hear the complaints periodically. I eventually realized that the reason I never had a problem was that I ALWAYS wear a full Aerostich (I've become fond of my body and all it's faults) and just did not feel the heat. Buell is doing a wonderful job of creating and effective feedback loop to poll rider data and integrate it with the engineering for future products. We'll see if Porsche can do as well as Buell. We are currently having a very passionate discussion on the Porsche forum about the failures of German engineering to deal with the heat . . . the discussion is revealing opinions that range from header wrap to who cares. . . sound familiar? I'm eager to see if Porsche can measure up to the Buell standard and integrate an engineered solution in the revolutionary new generation of Porsches announced this last week. My money is on Buell and their proven ability to respond promptly and effectively. | ||
| Reepicheep |
The only fact is in there is that it was his opinion. Unless he is a judge ruling on a particular case. | ||
| Xl1200r |
You can suffer actual burns just sitting out in the sun if you don't take proper precautions. Riding a high performance motorcycle is no different. Suggest to those with burned legs that they wear proper riding gear. Certain parts of a motorcycle are expected to get hot. Other parts should not. Would you feel the same way if you had grabbed the handle to open your oven door and it blistered your hand? Do you think you should wear an oven mit to touch a part that's expected to be no more than slightly warm to the touch? | ||
| Blake |
The seat on my bike can get burning hot just from sitting outside in the sun. In that case, I try to avoid touching it with bare skin. Your cute little oven analogy is entirely bogus concerning the issue being raised here, unless you are saying that the hand-grips of the motorcycle are burning people. Is that what you are saying? The top non-cooking surfaces of our stove sure can get hot. Are you aware that it gets darn hot during the Summer in lots of places where folks ride motorcycles? No? Then come down for a visit and meet me at the Walmart parking lot at 3 PM on a typical hot sunny Texas afternoon, I'll video as you lie down on the pavement with your shirt off, or heck, with your shirt on. Then we'll let the video roll as you explain to everyone how it is we should expect the surfaces of our motorcycles to remain cool in similar conditions. Still not convinced? After we finish treating the third degree burns to your backside, I'll video as you hold your hand firmly against the top surface of any car that is not painted white. If you can continue your explanation absent screaming from the burning pain, we'll be sure to get it up on youtube asap. Are you saying that hot surfaces on a hot sunny Summer day are the fault of Buell motorcycles? I have a very difficult time accepting what some here are trying to sell. Burned legs from riding an 1125R as a systemic issue with the bike? Put some pants on, better yet, some proper riding gear. On a sunny Summer afternoon here in Texas, if you let your bike sit out in the sunshine you can burn yourself on the seat cover. You gotta wonder about some folks. These are likely the same type who take off on a hot Summer day walking barefoot and end up with burned feet. Do they blame the pavement folks or the beach authorities? Or... do they learn to wear something to protect their feet?  Question: If the ambient temperature is 110oF+, not at all unusual, especially when dealing with city pavement and the like, what maximum temperature would you expect the frame of a motorcycle, the part encasing the engine--the engine is the thing that gets well over boiling hot during operation--to achieve? The obvious logical answer is that it will be somewhere between 110oF and boiling hot. Human skin will begin to suffer burn injury at just over 110oF. Take into consideration the effects of incident solar radiation at approximately 1 KW per square meter. Surfaces on motorcycles can get hot, so either take appropriate precautions, or stop riding motorcycles. If you don't take appropriate measures to deal with hot surfaces on a motorcycle, and you feel your legs getting warm, maybe try releasing the death grip on the bike so that some air may flow between leg(s) and frame? Just in case... The same goes for pavement or the hot sand at the beach. Please avoid walking barefoot on it. Wear sandals or shoes. | ||
| Court |
Fun Internet talk. Product improvements are not a basis for presumed liability. If they are Porsche, currently scrambling with their own heat issue, should be running scared. There is a doctrine, at common law, of negligence. The degrees involve negligence, ordinary negligence and gross negligence. If you are paying by the hour, for an attorney to represent you in a "a part of my motorcycle was hot" case . . . you're going to make someone very wealthy .. the attorney. For a more detailed treatise I'd suggest "A Products Liability Approach" by Anita Bernstein. In addition, you'd enjoy some of the following I have in my library.
I'd also point you to stuff like "Product Liability: The Empty Shell of Failure to Warn" by by Henderson and Twirsky and Good Warnings, Bad Products and Cognitive Limitations" by Howard Latin out at UCLA. When you get through that I also have a collection on "Product Disappointment" with stuff by Marshall S. Shapo. Apparently a lot of folks think the Engineers at Buell went to night school and stumble through crude drawings on the back of napkins as they sell products in 17 countries simply "hoping for the best". I'm the first to tout the need for continuing product improvement but I'm far from foolish enough to suggest that an improvement is prima facie evidence that some keen engineer knew, designed, built and sold something with the intent to harm me. Wait? . . wasn't I a construction worker? No wonder my wife hates the books I buy. | ||
| Buellborn |
Just for the point of internet fun talk. No one here said Buell "intentionally" knew the design may burn people. Also I think it unreasonable for people to lay in Walmart parking lots but is an a reasonable conclusion to expect people to ride motorcycles they purchase. | ||
| Blake |
Bob (Buellborn), "What Part of his statement is upsetting you? The statement seems it may be hard to accept as a Buell fan, but true? Looks factual." "Buell is outfitting all new bikes with material to lessen frame temperatures, indicating Buell's acknowledging a problem in this regard, doesn't seem to me to leave a lot of latitude to defend against a law-suit related to burns suffered while riding the 1125R." It is not factual at all. It is based on blatantly false logic. Do you seriously believe that the addition of a new feature on a motorcycle indicates the manufacturer's acknowledging a problem, leaving them defenseless against a law-suit? I'm sorry to hurt feelings, but that is pure baloney. Motorcycles are machines with a number of large very hot components. Motorcycles may be operated and exposed to hot ambient conditions. Did Buell make an improvement to lessen the amount of heat transferred from engine to frame? They sure did. Is the 2008 configuration therefore negligent and warranting lawsuit? I urge you or anyone who imagines so to please do file suit and see what you can achieve. Many models of motorcycles have seen similar 2nd year improvements. It's what is known in the industry as product improvement. Hey, since the new XBikes all now use the eight pot ZTL-II front brake caliper, maybe y'all can also sue Buell for their previously deficient/problematic brakes that, according to your logic, they must now be admitting were a problem. If you have an old tube frame Lightning, you should sue Buell for the deficient frame and chassis that they, according to your logic, have admitted was a problem, after all, they have since saw fit to change to an entirely different chassis. Need I go on?  | ||
| Blake |
"Also I think it unreasonable for people to lay in Walmart parking lots but is an a reasonable conclusion to expect people to ride motorcycles they purchase." You missed the point entirely and the logic of it all. The point is that even just ambient conditions may cause the surfaces of a motorcycle to become burning hot, too hot to touch to sensitive skin. Thus it is reasonable to expect that people who ride motorcycles take appropriate precautions, like wearing appropriate protective riding apparel/gear. Similarly we expect people to be able to walk across the Walmart parking lot, but only if they are wearing some sort of protection for their feet. Logic rules. | ||
| Helicon |
I could be wrong ... but, I believe Hwyranger was wearing jeans on the day he received 2nd degree burns on his legs ... is that not considered appropriate riding apparel? | ||
| Xl1200r |
Blake - I was unaware that the heat issues on the frame of the 1125R have been from radiant heat from the sun. My impression is that they have stemmed from heat pushing out from the engine. In any case, there was a guy on here who had blisters on his legs from riding his 1125R with jeans on. I'm not saying Buell is going to sued over this, and I don't think they should - however on a Buell, the frame is designed to be a part of the bike that your body comes in contact with, and it should be expected that it is safe to do so. I completely agree with your hot weather analogies - we get plenty hot up here and have felt uncomfrtable amounts of heat on my backside getting on my bike. I can only imagine what it's like down where you are. I guess maybe we don't have the whole story on what's causing these burns... No matter, my 1125CR gets here in a few weeks with the insulation, so I'm good to go! | ||
| Blake |
"I was unaware that the heat issues on the frame of the 1125R have been from radiant heat from the sun. " You too miss the point. The point is that a hot engine is not required to achieve a burning hot surface on a sunny Summer day. It gets hot enough here in Texas that when traveling at highway speed, isolated pockets of ambient air get hot enough to cause a reflex reaction and make an ungloved or partially gloved rider momentarily pull his hands from the handgrips. Don't ask me how I know. I agree that we likely aren't being fully and accurately apprised of the "my Buell burned my legs" scenario. It just isn't plausible to me that someone could actually sit there while his motorcycle frame subjected his legs to "2nd degree burns". The idea of such a thing seems implausible. It seems to me that you'd have to really want to have your legs burned for such a thing to occur. "the frame is designed to be a part of the bike that your body comes in contact with, and it should be expected that it is safe to do so." I agree, with clarification that appropriate riding gear/aparrel is employed. Congrats on your 1125CR. | ||
| Blake |
Thanks to Helicon naming the victim of the burned legs, we now have a better accounting of the situation... "OK, finally got to hit the mountain for 150+ miles today. Wife on the back having a great time. Frame got unbelievably hot. CT was never more than 202 (for brief moment at stop light at the end) usually 180-198 depending on speed. By the time I got home, the inside of my right leg just above the knee was blistered and very red, my left leg is not as bad, but it too is red and raw." I absolutely believe Hwyranger. Still very curious as to how one may not notice a scalding hot temperature on one's inner leg, a normally very sensitive area, yes? Is it possible the redness and blisters resulted from rubbing rather than burning? That type of skin trauma would be much more likely to go unnoticed as it accumulated. I know that when I have a passenger on back of a motorcycle, I tend to apply a lot more squeeze with my legs to prevent being pushed forward during braking. I can sure see how enough of that could lead to blisters and irritated skin from rubbing, especially if I were just wearing jeans. (Message edited by Blake on August 16, 2008) |
