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Croft
Posted on Tuesday, January 21, 2003 - 03:07 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Aesquire and MikeJ
Thanks for the advice.
I'll try the M2L and the S1 seat(s)
Are you interested in selling your spare M2L seat, Aesquire ?
JohnC
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Peter
Posted on Tuesday, January 21, 2003 - 03:08 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Dave,
Sadly, I hear from family and friends that Australia is going down the same path. I've been told that New South Wales is second only to California now for this rubbish.
PPiA
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Arbalest
Posted on Tuesday, January 21, 2003 - 03:34 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I think any product liability lawsuit should go before a panel of randomly chosen citizens (similar to jury, only no allowance to reject) to pass the straight face test. No pass, no suit. No liability judgements to some twit that cuts his fingers off using a lawnmower for a hedge trimmer.
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Peter
Posted on Tuesday, January 21, 2003 - 04:06 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Croft,
Low seat on eBay. Click here.
PPiA
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Bjack
Posted on Tuesday, January 21, 2003 - 04:41 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Sorry Peter, all of the cases in your post are fictitious. Go to the following link www.snopes.com/legal/lawsuits.asp. These are urban legends and in no way support any type of tort reform.
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Steve_A
Posted on Tuesday, January 21, 2003 - 04:51 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Just a few words on lawsuits, from someone who spends about a day a month in a trial:

Juries and arbritrators get it right more often than not.

Two-thirds of plaintiff cases fail, many deservedly.

Compared to the headline grabbing big-buck plaintiff wins, there are a greater number of cases where a reasonable person could look at the facts and wouldn't be able to believe that the actual jury came up with the defense verdict recorded. I've been involved in at least one or two where even the defense attorney couldn't believe the defense verdict; they only intended to demonstrate comparative fault on the part of the plaintiff. The big buck plaintiff wins may not seem quite as silly, either, if you had all the information available in the courtroom. In the McDonald's coffee case, if I recall correctly, most of the damages were punitive, the jury trying to send McDonald's a message that they should fix a problem that previous accident history should have already, in the opinion of that jury, made obvious to McDonald's.

Most cases settle during or after the discovery process, as the merits become relatively clear to both sides. This is especially true of product liability cases.

The system is imperfect, and certainly could be improved. The "Dalbert Standard" in federal courts (and reflected in more and more state courts), requiring expert testimony to be based on established science and scientific methods, has gone a long way to remedy some excesses. (It's also what got fingerprinting in trouble for awhile; there had been very few scientifically acceptable studies actually verifying the accuracy and reliability of fingerprint identification, that is, quantifying the error rate). But even a flawed system can be better than nothing; be very careful in the reforms you ask for as the unintended consequences may be more painful than you can imagine.
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Steve_A
Posted on Tuesday, January 21, 2003 - 05:01 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

FWIW, or don't believe anything you read on the web, including this:

>>TruthOrFiction.com has checked court records and news archives for the cities mentioned, and have not found any documentation for any of these stories.

When this eRumor started circulating, we didn't find anything that resembled the "Stella Awards," but there is a group that has now started such an award.

The court case involving Stella Liebeck is true and is widely known because of it being the little old lady who got millions because of what seemed like a small incident.

She spilled hot coffee on herself after the drive-through at a McDonald's in Washington state. She was sitting in the passenger seat of her grandson's car. The spill caused severe burns over 6 percent of her body. She spent a week in the hospital, underwent several skin drafts, and ended up with permanent scarring on 15 percent of her body. According to the Washington State Trial Lawyer's Association, Liebeck sued McDonalds only after the company refused to pay her medical expenses. The WSTLA says her bills added up to $11,000, but McDonalds offered to pay only $800. A mediator recommended a $250,000 settlement, which McDonald's turned down. One of the issues in the trial was that Liebeck's lawyers said there had been several hundred similar cases that McDonald's had ignored and that the company had refused to reduce the temperature of the coffee machines. A jury gave Stella Liebeck $160,000 but also fined McDonald's a punitive damage of $2.7 million. A judge later reduced that amount to $480,000 then McDonald's settled out of court for an undisclosed amount. <<
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Jim_Witt
Posted on Tuesday, January 21, 2003 - 05:01 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Dave,

Just curious what you were using. I bought Frontpage years ago when it was first released. Was looking for a "simple quick" way to generate a site. Of course I purchased a ton of other programs too. Just so I don't sound to stupid (to those in the know) I realized the "automated type" programs have problems too, like generating proprietary junk, huge files, crazy complicated directory structures, nonstandard HTML tags and extraneous code. I simply thought I'd take the easy way out "for once" instead of simply throughly understanding HTML and a few scripting languages (which is the right direction).

Cheers,
-JW:>;)
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Jim_Witt
Posted on Tuesday, January 21, 2003 - 05:06 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

A couple of months ago I sent off (via a rag) for more information on the new 2003 Confederate G2SF114 Hellicat (not that I can afford one of those puppies). Today I received my brochure. Looks pretty impressive to me. Even though the pictures in the brochure are outstanding, there are a couple of areas I can’t visually see. It appears they’ve integrated the physical exhaust system into the swingarm. They do mention in the Evolutionary design enhancements section, “New simplified high flow exhaust swingarm integration reduces weight, dimensional width and component system specifications (whatever that all means). Anyway, I think it’s a pretty impressive looking necked streetfighter especially when you consider it weighs in at 485 pounds and 135 ponies.

S'later,
-JW:>;)
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Steve_A
Posted on Tuesday, January 21, 2003 - 05:12 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

One legal reform suggested by a Connecticut judge was to have juries decide liability and damages, but the judge to decide the award for the damages. In his experience, juries usually get the liability decision right, but can vary widely on the amount of damages awarded for the same fact set -- and as often under-awarding as not. He believes that judges, seeing hundreds and thousands of cases in their careers, have a better sense of the fairness of a given award. It seemed a reasonable viewpoint when I read about it, but there may be pressures on elected judges to make this unwise.
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Blake
Posted on Tuesday, January 21, 2003 - 05:15 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Jim,

Sounds like you may be running late for your optimists' anonymous meeting. ;) Do you really blame George senior for the state of the economy now? :? Get real man. We all know it is Aaron's fault. He hasn't maintained his aggressive economic outlay for new motorcycles. Now we are all suffering.
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Aesquire
Posted on Tuesday, January 21, 2003 - 05:48 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

My personal economic theory is this. The only long term real changes in the economy Govt. can make is to raise or lower taxes, changing the personal wealth of the citizen. The changes take 6-7 years to take full effect, raising employment, boosting stock market etc. Thus the Regan tax cut boosted the economy in the last year of the Bush the elder's term, while Clinton's tax hike started trashing the economy in the last year of his term. Based on this model (which ignores all other factors, sunspots, womens dress height, yellow cars sold etc.) the next prez. will have a booming economy.
I know it's not my fault, I bought a car and a Buell after the prez's told me to support the economy by going into massive debt.
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Aesquire
Posted on Tuesday, January 21, 2003 - 05:49 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Then again I could be completely wrong.
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Josh
Posted on Tuesday, January 21, 2003 - 05:58 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

My input on the McDonalds case, a cup of joe served at 180 degrees should not be considered a consumable beverage


hmm, an example of the world's mis-perception of America? nah couldn't be.
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Jim_Witt
Posted on Tuesday, January 21, 2003 - 06:08 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Blake,

Grin, BTW, one thing I learned at my last OA meeting was an optimist is someone who tells you to cheer up when things are going his way. Nope, good old George isn't to blame for todays poor economy but neither old George or young Humpty understand that jobs are the engine for growth, productivity and a strong economy.

Maybe I'll feel better on January 24 when our new DHS (Department of Homeland Security) and it's 22 agencies will officially come into existence. Of course it'll take years before the new department will become fully organized and operational. Actually I shouldn't be to concerned because we have plenty of time and we can always raise taxes in the future to pay for anything that pops up. Oops ... forgot to mention that I received my "feel good patch" at my last OA meeting too.

E'gads ... Look the Emperor has no clothes on!
-JW:>;)
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Bomber
Posted on Tuesday, January 21, 2003 - 06:11 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

if anyone could predict the economy, they'd quit their jobs and be quietly rich (or loudly rich . . .whatever)

always wondered about those folks on the phone that had a "get rich" stock tip . . . I mean, if it's soooo great, why are they telling me, a stranger?

ah well . . .. . my econ prof said that economists had accurately predicted 11 out of the last 4 economic events.
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Jim_Witt
Posted on Tuesday, January 21, 2003 - 06:21 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Hey Pat,

I get it, so you're saying that the politican's promises of yesterday are the taxes of today. Wow, I'm finally understanding some of this economy stuff.

Hum ... "Total Information Awareness", wonder what that puppy means.
-JW:>;)
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Aesquire
Posted on Tuesday, January 21, 2003 - 06:44 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Jim_Witt.
That's backwards from my theory! Seems true though. TIA is best seen in the movie "Westworld". where nothing can go wrong....
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Aesquire
Posted on Tuesday, January 21, 2003 - 06:46 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I'm going to steal that one. let's see, promises..taxes..
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José_Quiñones
Posted on Tuesday, January 21, 2003 - 09:35 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

AMA To Launch Motard Championship
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Iamike
Posted on Tuesday, January 21, 2003 - 10:58 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Mike,
You know about the hedgetrimmer lawsuit? I used to work with a guy that was in Toro's corporate marketing and had to be a witness in the trial. He said it was an amazing farce and totally devoid of fact but Toro lost anyway because they didn't have a warning about not using it as a hedgetrimmer.
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Henrik
Posted on Tuesday, January 21, 2003 - 11:01 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Web development software: the higher priced packages (Macromedia Dreamweaver and Adobe Golive) do create proprietary junk, but a bit less so than the lesser software. One year I was forced to do the Team Elves site at Bonneville using Frontpage and a PC (Ohhhh the agony ;)). When I came home and wanted to continue updates on my Mac, not *one* page displayed correctly after being chewed up by Frontpage (this is 3 years ago, so it *might* have changed :)).

Another advantage of the pricier software is that they include site management, which means that altered pages will be updated; if pages are moved around, links will automatically update etc. etc.

Henrik
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Arbalest
Posted on Wednesday, January 22, 2003 - 06:43 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Iamike, I read about that lawsuit some years ago. That is a perfect example of a lawsuit that would not pass the straight face test. If the idiots attorney said my client deserves compensation for losing his fingers while using a lwnmower for a hedge trimmer, and the Peer board's reaction is "He did what??" End of case.
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Reepicheep
Posted on Wednesday, January 22, 2003 - 08:43 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Dave / Web Management...

Amen to front page... I can't count the hours I have spent unmangling front page created pages.

Most of the problems with web content result from a misuse of the technology. It is a markup technology... designed to allow designers to influence how a final page looks. Unfortunately, everyone demands to use it as a layout language, where they control every aspect of the appearance of the final page. As a markup language, HTML is not bad. As a layout language, it sucks. Front page trys to pretend HTML is a layout language, and thats where most of its problems are rooted.

Complexity is the "liquids are incompressable" issue of the computer world, for both software development and website management. You design your approach around it, prepare for it, limit it's impact and liabilities, and try to avoid it whenever possible, but it will never go away.

The high end packages can help, but you typically sell your soul to them and get forever bound to them for your content. Other approaches for very complicated content usually resolve around building a database for content, and using dynamic programs to query these databases for actually creating pages to display. Databases are a ton of work, but can do an excellent job of tracking and managing complexity.

So while I can't offer an easy answer, I can at least reassure you that you are asking exactly the right question. I wrote some little bitty pieces of what you see if you go to nexis.com (lexis-nexis, terabytes of searchable information, carefully and manually indexed and updated in real time). You would not believe what is required behind the scenes to run that site...

Bill
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Cmodtopgun
Posted on Wednesday, January 22, 2003 - 08:51 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Does anyone know the specifications (ie, width, rise hgt and pullback in degrees) of the bars for the S3 and S3T? I'd like to go somewhere in between in height, and don't know what will work.
Thanks
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Kinger
Posted on Wednesday, January 22, 2003 - 09:26 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Cmodtopgun,

If you are looking to get rid of your S3 bars, let me know. I am thinking about switching from the S3T bars to the S3. Thanks
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Davegess
Posted on Wednesday, January 22, 2003 - 10:30 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I am continually amazed by the level of expertise on a wide variety of subjects that show up on this board.

I have gotten a lot of info both here and privately from you guys. Thanks

As far as layout of web pages... I am learning cascading style sheets they seem to allow you some real control over how the page looks without using tables for things they are not really intended for. Not yet fully supported so you need to be careful what tags you use and they are not backward compatible but if you are careful you page will degrade gracefully on older browsers and still be readable.
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Court
Posted on Wednesday, January 22, 2003 - 10:32 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

>>>I am continually amazed by the level of expertise on a wide variety of subjects that show up on this board.

Stop right there or you risk a fine :)
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Jim_Witt
Posted on Wednesday, January 22, 2003 - 11:53 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Bill wrote:

Other approaches for very complicated content usually resolve around building a database for content, and using dynamic programs to query these databases for actually creating pages to display.


Bill,

How about an example of a dynamic program to query the datebase. That's why I mentioned AskSam (the database) in my first posting.

Cheers,
-JW:>;)
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Crowman
Posted on Wednesday, January 22, 2003 - 12:37 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

What is an achievable weight\hp ratio for a Buell, say a 97 M2? Turbo's and NOS need not apply.
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