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Jlnance
| | Posted on Thursday, December 10, 2009 - 09:12 am: | 
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OTOH the vast majority of consumers would certainly NOT consider that a "quality" product.
That is because the requirements it conforms to are not the customers.
To continue with my thoughts, we all talk about quality and have some sort of idea what it is. I think at the root of all our perceptions is the idea that quality means well made, something that will last. A related idea is that expensive things are higher quality because corners were cut to lower the price of the inexpensive item.
Yet if I can have two items which are supposed to do the same thing, and the one I judge to be higher quality fails more often than the one I judge to be lower quality, what does that say about my perception of quality. If I'm basing quality on my perception of which one is made better, I think it says I'm wrong.
As a concrete example, a number of years ago I used to be into radio equipment. When evaluating the quality of a radio, it was standard practice to spin the knobs and see how the controls felt. A quality control felt heavy, a cheap control didn't.
Yet if you opened the radios up, they all used the same controls. The "Quality" radios used big heavy steel knobs to give the controls that heavy feel.
Is that quality? The customer wants the knobs to feel heavy, so they hang weights on them. From the "meets requirements" definition it is quality. But what the customer really wanted was a control that wasn't going to wear out. Hanging weights on them only makes them wear out faster and runs up the cost. That sort of thing makes me feel taken advantage of.
Art, engineering, quality, and style are all interrelated to some extent. That gives companies a lot of latitude in what they can design. But there are lines that can be crossed. I take great offense when I think someone is trying to take advantage of my ignorance and sell me fake engineering or fake quality. In the motorcycle realm, fins on water cooled motors come to mind. I took the headlight grille off my Uly too. |
Rainman
| | Posted on Thursday, December 10, 2009 - 09:14 am: |
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This is a quality thread. |
Moxnix
| | Posted on Thursday, December 10, 2009 - 10:03 am: |
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Robt. Persig, mentioned earlier in this thread, did the most digging on defining quality. I barely recall his tome, except for the aged female colleague who said to the professor, "I hope you're teaching quality," or something like that. It helped make him go over the edge. Believe he may have gone on to pursue the tangents of "attributes" and "properties," the character of people or things. Can't recall which car had the sales slogan, "the quality goes in before the name goes on," without defining quality. However, in products, we know it when we experience it.
Heated seats in an Mercedes 500 may be a desired feature, but not required at the Equator. Therefore that particular reflection of "quality" is useless to the local consumer. A/C would be just the opposite.
To bring my usual meandering screed to a ranking full stop, how about a contest:
WRITE A MISSION STATEMENT FOR EBR
Rule: It should fit on an index card.
Prize: Box seats in heaven, a Peace Prize, and all the usual rights and privileges of Buell ownership.
Deadline: None. |
Jaimec
| | Posted on Thursday, December 10, 2009 - 10:18 am: |
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"WIN!" |
Milt
| | Posted on Thursday, December 10, 2009 - 10:29 am: |
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"Let's make some great bikes. And some money." |
Moxnix
| | Posted on Thursday, December 10, 2009 - 12:47 pm: |
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American Ingenuity & Innovation, Integrating Global Dynamics, Racing for the Podium.
That's the overly cerebral way of saying: Good thinking, good parts, good races.
By the way, there is no one appointed as judge for the contest. Oh, well. |
Reg_kittrelle
| | Posted on Thursday, December 10, 2009 - 02:09 pm: |
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Why do I have this nagging thought that we all might be a bit presumptive as re Erik? ...telling him what to build... what his mission must be... I'm kinda interested in what HIS ideas are before I start telling him what to do. |
Jaimec
| | Posted on Thursday, December 10, 2009 - 02:13 pm: |
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Reg: There you go again -- trying to insert rational thinking into a BadWeb thread...  |
Reg_kittrelle
| | Posted on Thursday, December 10, 2009 - 02:57 pm: |
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My bad. |
Davegess
| | Posted on Thursday, December 10, 2009 - 05:29 pm: |
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LOL |
Moxnix
| | Posted on Thursday, December 10, 2009 - 05:36 pm: |
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Ah, we do have judges. Good. |
Court
| | Posted on Thursday, December 10, 2009 - 08:03 pm: |
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The reminds me of a Harley-Davidson project . . . it was a simple question . . . . the first answer was damn close . . . but a crowd assembled, opinions were expressed . . . everyone contributed ingredients . . . we are now further from out goal than when we started and no one recalls what the question was.
We could complete the cycle if we'd pen a memo that we are "hard at work, need to inform we will be several months beyond schedule and request $5M additional funding".
Hey . . . we could develop a hot rod Sportster if we get good at this.
 |
Jaimec
| | Posted on Thursday, December 10, 2009 - 10:38 pm: |
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Sounds like the Revolution engine... |
Cityxslicker
| | Posted on Friday, December 11, 2009 - 01:07 am: |
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American Race Thoroughbreds Built for the Rider; Destined for the Podium.
I also like
Bring on the world, we'll supply the bike. EBR Racing.
And my favorite from the S1
Just go ride the bike. |
Court
| | Posted on Friday, December 11, 2009 - 08:39 am: |
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I think I have just proven that BadWebbers. . . are collective geniusi.
I break out one my texts on QA/QC for an 8 hr refresher class tomorrow and lo and behold . . . read the FIRST sentence out loud ! !
I could have simply scanned the thread and saved myself some time! Seems as though you guys had it nailed!
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Anonymous
| | Posted on Sunday, December 13, 2009 - 01:41 am: |
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That quality may mean different things to different people is correct. However, the person that counts is the final customer for that product. Which is why it is so crucial for the project lead and marketing group to first identify a huge amount about the psychographics of the customer, not just demographics and competitive products.
Only then can the engineering group and manufacturing group and sales group deliver the delightful experience for the customer.
Now some may scream and howl that a product doesn't meet their definition of quality, but if they are not the target customer, their input has no bearing. It may be useful when you wish to build a different product targeted to suit them, or it may not. But it has no use in evaluating the product not meant for them.
Which is why cruiser oriented middle-aged management in a company should not be influencing and setting specs of their liking on a product meant for young sportbike customers. But I digress. |
Mndwgz
| | Posted on Sunday, December 13, 2009 - 06:16 am: |
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I remember a business class I had taken long ago that stated that quality was an emotional response.
Psychographics of the Buell customer that the moco missed = permagrin |
Lemonchili_x1
| | Posted on Sunday, December 13, 2009 - 06:50 am: |
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Anony - How often were there battles over what the specs should be? (I'm starting to think it was a lot more often than any customer ever realised) |
Mikej
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 29, 2009 - 10:52 am: |
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Quality gets me home at the end of a ride.
I once went in to a local Buell dealership looking for a pair of ThrottleMeister bar end / throttle lock. The co-owner of the shop said they looked at carrying those but he didn't want them on his bike so they didn't carry them. The thing is that I wanted them for my bike, not his. He's still a strong Buell supported and enthusiast, and he's also still a little thick in the head. 
That's all I've got to say about this subject.
Except to add that the Blackberry Curve I'm typing this with has intermittant faults with the "p" and the "j" keys, and everytime this thing fails to enter a p or a j I cuss its "quality". Quality is perceived in the hands of the end consumer. Count the p's and j's in this post, and the missing ones I might have missed, there was more than one cuss.
Bye. |
Skifastbadly
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 29, 2009 - 03:30 pm: |
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I'm absolutely shocked that in a thread on a motorcycle forum discussing quality, "Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance" hasn't been brought up. Pret' near the whole book is about the pursuit of the definition, and how it drove the author insane.
Here's my take: Quality is the distance between the expectations of the customer and the actual experience. Things for which you pay less you generally have lower expectations for, and aren't disappointed or pissed off when they don't perform as well as a high priced item. And it goes beyond the object, it goes to the entire experience. I worked for the same company that Doerman worked for years ago, and was in charge of development for a software product. It's a long story how a guy with a sales background ended up running development, but I did. I got into a very heated argument with one of my development managers one day. He gave me a report showing that the number of known bugs in the product (pre-release) had been cut in half. When I asked him how that was possible, he said he had 'scrubbed the bug list and discovered that many of them were duplicates, and others were just the software working as designed'. I blew my ••••••• top. THAT is not a quality improvement, that is someone covering their ass. I informed him that a bug is when the software does something that the user did not anticipate. Period. Development managers tend to confuse "product quality" with "code quality" and they are different.
Sorry about the rant there. The point is, if I sell you a watch for a buck and tell you that it will last for a year and +/- five minutes a day, and you think that's a good deal, if it drifts three minutes a day and lasts two years, you're not likely to say it's a poor quality item. It's a matter of expectations. |
Rocketman
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 29, 2009 - 06:02 pm: |
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'Zen' has been referenced at least twice in this very topic.
Quality for me is a general term I apply to anything that is better by far than average. My expectations are high. When choosing a motorcycle as an exotic unique extreme, like a Buell, I automatically assume the quality should be way beyond that of a mass produced ordinary bike. Disappointingly, in the tube frame era of S1's the customer got a lot of uniqueness and inspired design, but the whole package was let down by poor quality abounding.
It matters not now. I've spent 11 years thus far improving what in some respects it should have been from day one. But quality is not about expectation to a set point for each and every thing being different to a production target and budget. It's about something smacking of quality, end of. Like a Bimota, Rolls Royce, Mont Blanc, Concorde, whatever.....otherwise the terminology is just wasted, as quality could be shit, just better shit than some other shit. That's not quality, more bull shit that's the preserve of text books and marketeers and other bull shit merchants bent on selling something. Not then what I would teach as quality.
Rocket |
Skifastbadly
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 29, 2009 - 06:51 pm: |
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'Zen' has been referenced at least twice in this very topic.
Whoops. Guess I should read slower. Nevermind |
Rex
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 29, 2009 - 07:31 pm: |
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Crusty
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 29, 2009 - 07:44 pm: |
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That's a quality motorcycle.
And a damned sexy bike, to boot. |
883srfast
| | Posted on Saturday, January 09, 2010 - 10:45 pm: |
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"just ride the motorcycle", just ride the motorcycle", just ride the motorcycle". |
Fuzzz
| | Posted on Sunday, January 10, 2010 - 10:48 am: |
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Rex, got any more pictures of that bike? |
Rex
| | Posted on Sunday, January 10, 2010 - 04:18 pm: |
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Fuzzz
| | Posted on Sunday, January 10, 2010 - 08:07 pm: |
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Rex, Thanks, that's Swweeeeeet!!!
M2,S2/3,XB,X1,custom hand built stuff, VERY NICE!!
What are the rails on the rear section for?
Got any more Pics? |
Two_buells
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 12, 2010 - 04:36 pm: |
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Fuzzz, those are S3 saddlebag mounts.
Chaney, you should be proud that your are one of a few Buell owners that have their first Buell. Still the best looking M2 to date. |
Kenm123t
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 12, 2010 - 06:27 pm: |
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I still have my original M2 now m123t
which was later joined by s1w s3t a 09 uly and 09 1125r.
My dad has a xb9s he rode my s1w and sold his harley and went xb shopping |
Fuzzz
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 13, 2010 - 11:54 am: |
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Two Buells, Doh! I feel stupid now! Though I've never seen an S3 with the bags off, I should have guessed...
I still think that is an awesome job of customizing! |
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