G oog le BadWeB | Login/out | Topics | Search | Custodians | Register | Edit Profile

Buell Forum » Buell RACING & More » Racing - Circuit/Road Racing » Archive through April 17, 2007 » Honda Talks About Their 2007 MotoGP Machine, the RC212V » Archive through January 04, 2007 « Previous Next »

Author Message
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Blake
Posted on Monday, October 30, 2006 - 07:01 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

This just in from HRC:

HONDA RACING INFORMATION


HONDA RC212V

The next generation of MotoGP machine is here in the shape of the Honda RC212V racing prototype. Built to conform to the new-for-2007 Grand Prix rules, the bike features an 800cc, V4 engine and a stunning all-new chassis built with mass centralization and ultimate handling in mind. Welcome to the future...

Basic Concept "Reading the rider's mind"

Takanori Okuma, the Honda R&D RC212V Large Project Leader, explains the principles behind the RC212V:

"When we started development of the 800cc machine, effectively the "second generation" of Honda MotoGP bike, we gave top priority to the pursuit of excellent handling and drivability. For the newly-reduced engine capacity of 800cc, we decided a V4 was the most efficient layout. Rather than focusing solely on top end power, we also concentrated on producing good power delivery characteristics, which can have a significant effect on lap times. Using enhanced control systems, the result is an engine with good drivability in the low and mid ranges, and excellent power under acceleration when the engine is at the top of its range.

"On the chassis side, we further enhanced the "mass concentration" package developed for the RC211V to improve the agility and quick handling characteristics of the bike. The outward appearance is aggressive and appropriately innovative for a new generation of bike, affording both drivability and aerodynamic efficiency. We will continue to evolve the bike before the season opener and throughout next season."

Technical Specifications

Overall length : 2050mm
Overall width : 645mm
Overall height : 1125mm
Wheelbase : 1440mm
Road clearance : 125mm
Weight (kg) : over 148kg
Engine type: liquid-cooled four-stroke DOHC 4 valve V-4
Displacement : 800cc
Maximum power : N/A
Frame type : twin-tube
Front Wheels (inch) : 16.5
Rear Wheels (inch) : 16.5
Front Suspension : Telescopic fork
Rear Suspension : New Unit Pro-link
Fuel tank capacity : 21 litre


DANI PEDROSA'S FIRST IMPRESSIONS OF THE RC212V


Following the Grand Prix of Japan at Motegi in September, Dani Pedrosa rode 30 laps on the RC212V prototype as the machine was revealed for the first time in public. Though the test was primarily for initial evaluation purposes, Pedrosa managed a highly respectable lap time of 1m 48.210s. Here he gives his thoughts on the bike he and newly-crowned World Champion Nicky Hayden will ride next year.

What are your first impressions of the RC212V prototype?

It's a little bit difficult to make a good analysis of the bike because I've only had the possibility to ride a few laps. But my first impression is that the bike feels right which is very important when you check the first prototype. We didn't work on the settings - only making some changes to the gearing - but but it was clear that the package feels quite similar to the RC211V.

Can you assess the handling characteristics?

Definitely the bike is smaller, so for me it's better because I can control the bike more easily. I could touch my knees with my elbows while sitting on the bike and that's something I cannot do now with the RC211V. This is helpful when you ride a race bike.

What can you say about the power delivery?

The engine character feels a little different to the RC211V, but as I said it was just my first test and development is still going on so this feeling will continue to change. And also I didn't push so much.

Is it easier to ride than the 990cc?

Yes, it seems easier to ride because some things about the bike feel smaller and the rear seat is much shorter which makes the whole bike look more compact. The bike has some characteristics which are a little more like a 250cc but it's still a MotoGP bike. I don't know if it will be faster in the corners because there are many hairpins in Motegi and the corner speed is very low.

Which characteristics do you find better than the 990cc?

For me, the dimensions. I'm not tall and this machine suits my size a little better than the 990cc. Even though the height and the weight are the same as the RC211V, the bike is smaller, more compact and this is good.

SATORU HORIIKE - Managing Director of HRC

"We are satisfied with the progress of the RC212V prototype. Under the leadership of Takanori Okuma, the project team has remained well on schedule with the development and testing programme set by HRC. We are confident that winter testing will be positive and look forward to being competitive in this exciting new era for MotoGP."
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Jammer
Posted on Monday, October 30, 2006 - 10:13 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I bet, There's a Pinto sized muffler under that cowling.


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Eboos
Posted on Monday, October 30, 2006 - 10:26 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Damn, Pedrosa even looks cramped on that bike.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

M1combat
Posted on Monday, October 30, 2006 - 11:30 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

"I could touch my knees with my elbows while sitting on the bike and that's something I cannot do now with the RC211V. This is helpful when you ride a race bike. "

Why?
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Diablobrian
Posted on Tuesday, October 31, 2006 - 12:04 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Resting in full-tuck on the long straights I'd guess.


Being a tall guy I've been able to do that on every sport bike I've ever owned, with the possible
exception of my 84 VF1000F, ironically a v4 honda.

(Message edited by diablobrian on October 31, 2006)
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Trojan
Posted on Tuesday, October 31, 2006 - 04:12 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

"I could touch my knees with my elbows while sitting on the bike and that's something I cannot do now with the RC211V. This is helpful when you ride a race bike. "

'I can also stick my head up my arse when approaching corners, which I have perfected this season. This is helpful when ramming my team mate' ;)

(Message edited by trojan on October 31, 2006)
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Blake
Posted on Tuesday, October 31, 2006 - 07:54 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

"I bet, There's a Pinto sized muffler under that cowling. " Mufflers on MotoGP bikes would be a new development for 2007; they've been mostly running straight pipes for the past, what, four years?




Matt,

Classic! That is one for posterity. LOL




I think being able to move around a lot on a racing machine is advantageous; the ability to move farther forward for instance would help acceleration by reducing the tendency to wheelie.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

12r
Posted on Wednesday, November 01, 2006 - 08:16 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

The overall dimensions are not dissimilar to a Firebolt...



Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Jimidan
Posted on Wednesday, November 01, 2006 - 09:26 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

If it fits Dani, wouldn't it follow that it will cramp Nicky and others? Who did Honda build this bike for?

jimidan
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

12r
Posted on Wednesday, November 01, 2006 - 11:07 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

According to http://www.honda-racing.co.uk/twowheels/motogp/bik e/index.asp the RC212V is almost exactly the same size as an RC211V.

Inscrutable.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Blake
Posted on Wednesday, November 01, 2006 - 11:25 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Jimi, Pretty sure that Nicky will get his own ergonomically optimized version with more rearward seat area and custom tailored foot-peg, clip-on setups.

In fact, if you look at the pic with Dani, you can see that his seat backing has alot of added padding compared to that shown in the photo of Nicky above..
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Diablobrian
Posted on Wednesday, November 01, 2006 - 05:00 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

How 'bout that #1 on the hugger?

Does that look good or what?;)
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Vonsliek
Posted on Wednesday, January 03, 2007 - 02:56 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

if u look carefully u can see that pedrosa has a LOT of foam on the seat COWL facing his ass .. then look at hayden's bike .. he has WAY less & in the shot above, is only posing, so is not putting his ass back to the cowl, which is a good 6-8" back.

pedrosa is gonna win in '07 .. as much as i like nicky .. i wish him all the best & i hope he races in 07 how he raced in valencia, when he flew off aggressively & nearly knocked rossi off his bike - which MUST have affected rossi's emotion & hence lack of focus leading to crash ..

yadda yadda ..
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Vagelis46
Posted on Wednesday, January 03, 2007 - 04:21 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I hope for 2007 Ducati finally makes it all the way to the title, and the great Loris Capirossi gets his first well deserved MotoGP championship.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Vagelis46
Posted on Wednesday, January 03, 2007 - 04:24 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Also I would like to see how this bike ,that is not developed by Valentino Rossi and Jeremy Burgess, will perform.

Honda might get well beaten this time......At least I hope so
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Jimidan
Posted on Wednesday, January 03, 2007 - 12:16 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Vagelis46 sez:

Also I would like to see how this bike ,that is not developed by Valentino Rossi and Jeremy Burgess, will perform."

Rossi hasn't been on the bike in 2 years...come on! Nicky was the development rider for the 211 during that time. Got a bug up your arse, or did you just wake up in a poopy mood.

jimidan

(Message edited by jimidan on January 04, 2007)
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Vagelis46
Posted on Thursday, January 04, 2007 - 03:13 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Come-on Jimi, no disrespect to Nicky, I actually like his dirt-track style......and actually I rather see him winning than Pedrosa.

But he is not the same class as Valentino...

I actually do not rate HRC that much. I want to see how good the bike they develop is, when they do not get feedback from the top rider&engineer in the class.

Look at Honda at WSBK, they are not doing great lately, do they?
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Vagelis46
Posted on Thursday, January 04, 2007 - 03:32 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

And,

I was also surprised when Nicky turned down the offer from Ducati, and decided to stay with the Evil Empire.....

Despite HRC tried to f*** all his hard work, all through these years, by giving him new unproven parts to test so that their "prodigy" Pedrosa has an advantage next year with the 800cc. They never thought he had a title chance. Remember the clutch problems he had ? Remember Donnigton?

Once again HRC showed their dark side throughout the year.

So I was disappointed by Nicky's phobia, thinking that leaving HRC will be the wrong move......He should have been more brave. It was Ducati's offer he turned down, not Ilmor's, not even Kawa's.

We all know what Vale would do, right?
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Jimidan
Posted on Thursday, January 04, 2007 - 04:25 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Vagelis sez:

Come-on Jimi, no disrespect to Nicky, I actually like his dirt-track style......and actually I rather see him winning than Pedrosa.

But he is not the same class as Valentino...

I actually do not rate HRC that much. I want to see how good the bike they develop is, when they do not get feedback from the top rider&engineer in the class.


I think it is disrespectful to fail to acknowledge Nicky's two years of development to the 211, saying instead that he was just riding Rossi's two year old bike. If you think Nicky rides his MotoGP bike like a dirt tracker, you obviously haven't seen him ride on the dirt.

Nicky is in the very elite class with Rossi, and given a couple of more years so will Pedrosa. You don't win the championship and not be in the same class as the best riders.

HRC is in that class too.}
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Rocketman
Posted on Thursday, January 04, 2007 - 07:01 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Hayden has said recently about his use of new parts throughout the season, that he was asked by Hondas chairman and decided to honour the request. Rossi was undoubtedly the best rider again last season. More wins etc etc (let's not argue this please - I took the quote from MCN 's season review)but Honda and Hayden, despite those new parts still achieved consistency to the finish, and with two wins. From reading Hayden I'd say he's got a lot of respect from Honda for his efforts.

As for Honda in WSB. Toseland came second in the championship on Ten Kate's Honda, which is a very poor showing??? Poor enough for Toesland to turn down a Moto GP ride and have another crack at WSB on the Honda this season.

Rocket
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Trojan
Posted on Thursday, January 04, 2007 - 07:21 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Hayden may have had to test and use new parts, but remember they may also have been better parts than the rest of the Honda riders got (that is certainly the impression given by Melandri, Pedrosa and others).
It has always been the lead riders role to develop new parts for the factory bikes. That is one factor that has laways given factory teams the advantage over the 'customer' teams.

Rossi also spent most of 2006 developing new parts for the Yamaha, including more than one new frame.

James Toselands showing in WSB was probably more impressive than the HRC MotoGP effort (not to take anything away from Hayden), given that Ten Kate is not even running HRC bikes, but (heavily) converted showroom Fireblades using parts developed by the team themselves. Toseland didn't even have traction control for most of last season.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Jimidan
Posted on Thursday, January 04, 2007 - 01:54 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I like the way you guys put it:

Nicky Hayden's mother is a skanky ho who would screw a snake if she could get it to keep it's head still (no disrespect to Nicky).

As you see, the disclaimer really doesn't quite counteract the damage done in the statement.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Jimidan
Posted on Thursday, January 04, 2007 - 02:32 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Rocket sez:

Rossi was undoubtedly the best rider again last season. More wins etc etc (let's not argue this please - I took the quote from MCN 's season review)but Honda and Hayden, despite those new parts still achieved consistency to the finish, and with two wins.

I really don't care what MCN says about Rossi's 'undoubted' superiority over Hayden. The fact that Rossi had more race wins could have been more of a product of the way Hayden's early season points lead presented itself. As Kenny Roberts said, "As far as I am concerned, Nicky did a great job. He had a tremendous amount of pressure on him all year. Starting out with a huge points lead is awful...". Nicky's strategy was much different in protecting that lead, since he didn't need race wins to do it.

"Schwantz said he'd heard the post season criticism about Nicky only winning two races during the year, and only leading 29 laps. "It is all a crock of shit," Kevin said. "Hey, it doesn't matter. The #1 plate says world champion, and that's all he needs to worry about. There will be a million different ways people dissect it. 'Oh, he doesn't deserve it. Rossi had bad luck.' The truth is, if I've got more points than everybody else, I win."

A lot of folks on here and elsewhere have said that before, but when you have won the world championship yourself, it carry's added value. And realistically, when it came down to nut-cutting time, Hayden delivered and Rossi cracked under the pressure (no disrespect to Rossi).

Rossi is probably the greatest of all time, but last year was Nicky's, and nobody can take that away from him.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Blake
Posted on Thursday, January 04, 2007 - 04:22 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)




Nicky Hayden
2006 MotoGP World Champion!

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Rocketman
Posted on Thursday, January 04, 2007 - 04:43 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Jimidam sez:

The fact that Rossi had more race wins could have been more of a product of the way Hayden's early season points lead presented itself.

You're saying Hayden had an early season points lead, which some how means Rossi had more wins in the entire season?

And Jimi, your comments reflect more your own feelings about how you really see Hayden, as it is you that said "Rossi's 'undoubted' superiority", not MCN. MCN said Rossi was undoubtedly the best rider of the season. Frankly I think that's pretty obvious to anyone given his brilliant race to the finish. Hayden on the other hand had some good and great races, but some were pretty lacklustre for a top factory rider.

Rocket
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Rocketman
Posted on Thursday, January 04, 2007 - 04:52 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Blake, we are trying to discuss the merits of Honda's race effort and how that played out with Hayden their top test pilot.

As in most threads when Hayden appears to be shown as anything less than superb, there is the ridiculous fever pitch patriotism that interrupts the flow of conversation sometimes to the point of goading for an argument. What is the purpose of such stupidity when we all know Hayden deserved his title regardless of whether he won less races than Rossi or wasn't the best rider of the season? Does it serve any purpose putting up that bold text other than to distract or disrupt the other issues discussed? Or are we going to go around all year arguing the merits of Hayden's achievements.

Patriotism is the virtue of the vicious -
Oscar Wilde


Rocket
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Trojan
Posted on Thursday, January 04, 2007 - 05:19 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

The spotlight will be on Nicky Hayden in 2007 even brighter than it was in 2006.

This season is a whole new ball game and all the teams start from a level playing field for once. It is already obvious that the new bikes favour a 250 style of riding much more than the old 'point and squirt' 990 machines, and I think Nicky will have to change his style pretty quickly if he is to keep in touch in the early races.

It will certainly be a test of his mettle and will show his world champion creditentials if he can do it.

I would certainly expect some of the lesser known riders to shine on the new bikes andgive the established top 5 a run for their money. Melandri, Hopkins, Stoner and Vermulen all look good in pre-season, not to mention Pedrosa and Rossi.
I can't see Edwards or Checa making an impact and would expect this to be their final season at the top.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Johnnymossville
Posted on Thursday, January 04, 2007 - 06:57 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

-- Patriotism is the virtue of the vicious -
Oscar Wilde

Rocket ---

I'd be a bit hesitant to quote a guy who ran the streets in leotards and had sex with little boys.

But more to the point.....

Rossi might be the "best rider" but he wasn't the best rider of the season, period. Hayden was and has the title to show for it. I do think Hayden will have trouble repeating with the lower power 800's though, even if their lap times are the same or better than last year's bikes.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Court
Posted on Thursday, January 04, 2007 - 07:20 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

>>>>I'd be a bit hesitant to quote a guy who ran the streets in leotards and had sex with little boys.

Rocket did not run the streets. . he just danced on a table in a skirt.

: )
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Blake
Posted on Thursday, January 04, 2007 - 07:25 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

If Rossi is the better rider but Nick won the championship, then it follows that Nick did a better job of developing his Honda racing machine than Rossi did his Yamaha. being able to finish a race without the engine going or without crashing out is a good thing. The machine and its support crew do count too. It ain't all rider.


Rocket, you got it backwards mate. Why do you and others seem to take such offense at the mere statement of fact, that Nick Hayden is 2006 MotoGP World Champion? This in answer to those deriding his accomplishment. It has NOTHING to do with patriotism. If the situation were different, I'd be defending Capirossi or whoever had managed to win the championship but was being derided as somehow not quite up to top level as another rider. That's bullshit bro.
« Previous Next »

Topics | Last Day | Tree View | Search | User List | Help/Instructions | Rules | Program Credits Administration