| Author | Message | ||
     Billfish |
I'm curious if anyone can give me some first hand experience with the Baker Easy Shift Kit. Is this a good way to modify the stock trans? I'm getting fed up with the stock trans on my 2000 M2. I installed a Banke shift linkage kit soon after I bought the bike; this helped quite a bit. I feel most of the trans problems are internal. | ||
| Pammy |
Bill, call R&D Motorsports and tell him Pam at Cycle-Rama told you to call. He is the best in the business and a personal friend of mine. His number is 727-447-4552 | ||
| Al_lighton |
Bill, It is a worthy upgrade, but it isn't a miracle worker, either. I have one in my S1W, and it does a few nice things: 1) the detent plate is like a cross between the old style OEM and new style OEM one, with the best features of both. The old OEM one was larger and engaged the follower better, but it had ambiguous lobe points. The new one had better defined lope points, but was a little smaller and didn't engage the follower as well. The Baker one is larger and more defined. 2) The Baker detent plate attaches to the shift drum with a bolt, rather than a stupid sure to fail clip. Big plus here. 3) The shift fork ramps are better shaped, but it is a subtle change. It does shift smoother. If I was going into my tranny or even removing the clutch basket for anything else, I wouldn't think twice about putting one in, it's worth the price. But it is one of those upgrades that I probably wouldn't open the tranny or primary up specifically to put one in. If my detent retaining clip or the pins were loose, I'd have one in in a heartbeat. see here Al | ||
| Koz5150 |
How hard is it to install? Do you have to disassemble the tranny? | ||
| Al_lighton |
Not too tough...If you are comfortable removing the rotor/clutch basket, the rest of the job is much easier. You don't disassemble any gears from the mainshaft/countershaft, but you do remove the shift drum (obviously!). Taking the shift forks off the shift drum is pretty trivial (a small magnet helps to pull out the follower pins). Once the clutch basket is off, I would rate the job simpler than a rocker box job. It's pretty straightforward. Al | ||
| Djkaplan |
Damn you and your infernal wares. I'll be giving you a call. | ||
| Billfish |
Thanks Pammy and Al, your input is helpful. Are there any other tube frame Bueller's out there that have one of these drums installed? Always interested in your feedback. Just trying to get my M2 to shift better, does this product make a difference? Bill | ||
| Orion1 |
Bill, I noticed only a little difference on my 2000 M2. I decided to leave in the OEM spring that pulls the pawl down onto the detent plate. It pulls on the pawl stronger to make a more "definite" shifting stroke. I wasn't looking for an "easier" shift, just a more accurate one. If yours goes into neutral between 3-4 & 4-5, then drops into gear when the rev's drop, like mine did, let me know. You've got to go back in there and grind down one of the peaks on the detent plate. I still occasionaly get false neutrals, but that's from just tapping the shift lever instead of giving it a full, firm, quick shift (of course the neutral often happens when my attention in on something else, like setting up for a tricky curve ahead). All-in-all, together with the Banke rear sets and shifter, it shifts quite a bit better than stock. (But, because of the rear sets and Crossroads handlebars, now I've got to reshape the seat because the little hump that defines the pillion keeps me from sitting back far enough to keep my weight neutral when I shift my body from side to side for curves. I really have to grip the frame between my knees to keep weight off the handlebars & giving them unwanted input (when you're leaned over with a knee out, you can't grip the frame too well).) | ||
| Billfish |
Thanks John, I appreciate your feedback about the Baker shift kit. By the way John our paths have crossed before. I first met you and your wife at a Deals Gap BRAG event a couple of years back. We used my van to haul your Cyclone back to the Hotel where a Buell tech tried to sort out the problem. I think it had to do with the wiring harness, an electrical problem was discovered. Good to hear from you, sounds like you're enjoying track day events with your Buell. Thanks again for your input. Bill Maybe I'll see you at the BRAG Appalachian Adventure? | ||
| Firstbuell |
I have 1st-hand experience, [nearly] all positive. The pins backed outta my OEM drum @ 36k and lunched the mainshaft bearings - praise G-d for my 7-year H-D extended warranty. The mavens @ Vallejo subbed the Baker part - it's great! Neutral is very EZ to find, and the overall shift action is wonderful. We threw in the updated 2nd gear as well. Only drawback is that the neutral switch sometimes clicks 'out' when starting up from cold, so the motor shuts off even tho it's still in neutral. Dunno if that's a permanent condition or an adjustment or what..... any input, anyone? | ||
| Phatkidwit1eye |
I have one as well. I just wish I could tell you how better it shifts with it. My shift pins pushed out at about 7k,1k of those miles were mine. So I can't really compare to stock. Even though I can't compare, to me the reassurance of having a bolt holding on your detent plate instead of a little clip is nice. FirstBuell.. I have ran into that problem a couple of times. I never had it happen when I had the old style gear shifter on it. Now that I have the updated shifter it started to do it. | ||
| José_quiñones |
I have that problem with it too, could you expand on what ramps need to be trimmed? thanks | ||
| Orion1 |
Bill, Great to hear from you again! You saved my bacon that day! I've not had that problem again w/the M2 ever since the Knoxville tech (who works on the Jap side of the shop now, by the way) loosened up the main wiring harness to keep the tach wire from shorting out. Let me know the next time you're down in WNC again. We're going to CMP( http://www.carolinamotorsportspark.com/ ) on Oct 1,2. So far I've been to VIR (north & south), Barber, and CMP. I saw in the NESBA newsletter that a new track is planed for Salisbury, NC! That's only about 2.5 hours east of me! Jose, I'll dig up the info to show which "peak" to grind down. I had called Baker Transmission 3 times before I talked to someone who knew knew what to do. Worked like a charm. | ||
| Orion1 |
Jose, It's the Shifter Arm you grind down a bit, not a peak on the detent plate, to keep it from going into nuetral between gears 3-to-4 & 4-to-5. I found the fax that Baker sent me, traced over it so it would show up, then scanned it:  I took off just a little bit of the Shift Arm, knowing I could go back in later if it was not enough, but it WAS enough. | ||
| Cyclonemaniac |
My shift drum puked last week. The clip broke and the pins backed out. I'm trying a different approach. Am going to drill and tap drum for an 8MM bolt. Yes I know it's hard ,(about 58-62 RC), I just ordered some solid carbide drills and taps. If this doesn't work, guess I'll be giving Al a call.   | ||
| Velocity |
I'm new to the site and have several buells. One has a R&D motorsports prepped and modified trans I use it on the drag bike (98S1). The street bike (96S2T)has a Baker 6-speed trans with the reverse shift drum. I really have only good to say about both options. R&D is great to deal with and the service was as promised. I worked with Mark. Baker went well I asked lots of questions. Very helpful. I worked with Jake. | ||
| Jackbequick |
Let us know how it goes on replacing that clip with a bolt. I think I heard or read that the axial or radial play allowed by the stock mounting method and the spring action provided by the clip both contribute to the shifter working right. And the clearance between the clip and back of the clutch is pretty small. You might have use something like a shoulder bolt to retain the bolt without binding the detent plate. Jack | ||
| Cyclonemaniac |
Well the stock shift drum is now drilled and tapped. I have it on good authority that the detent plate can be bolted directly against the pins with no ill effect. Besides, that appears to be how Baker is doing it anyway. As for bolt head clearance, don't think that's going to be an issue but I'm going to use a low profile M8 just to be sure. When the scoot is all back together, I'll post an update on shift performance. | ||
| Al_lighton |
Daniel, You've succeeded where others before have failed. You're doing the right thing, bolting that detent plate on is the right way to do it, HD should have made that change YEARS ago. How hard was the drill/tapping? Al | ||
| Cyclonemaniac |
Well Al, with the right tools (solid carbide drill and tap), and the right feeds and speeds,( I do this stuff every day for a living, I'm a tool maker/machinist), the job went smoothly. I'm using an M8 X 1.25p button head bolt with a wave washer and permanent locite. If for some reason the bolt ever backs out, I'll EDM a cross hole thru the drum and roll pin the bolt in place! But I really don't think it will come to that. Just a note on the hardness, the outside and the clip stud bore were 60 rockwell C. Once I had drilled the clip stud bore past it original depth, (to allow for plenty of thread), the drilling went much easier. So in other words, this part is case hardened, although I think the case is fairly deep. Most likely the material is something like 8620. Drill speeds had to be kept around 115 rpm. Feed was slow but steady. No exact feed rate to give as I used my 13 X 40 manual lathe. I used the tail stock to just start the tap at about 75 rpm only allowing 3-4 threads to cut. I finished up by hand as when tapping anything hard, heat builds up FAST and that will quickly take the temper out of any tool and possibly seize the tool or cause it to break. One last tip. Use crisco for tapping lube. Plain or buttery, depending on your taste preference.  . Seriously, crisco works great! | ||
| Billfish |
Thanks for the all the feedback. Looks like the Baker Kit will be a winter project for me. | ||
| Cyclonemaniac |
The verdict is in. The shift drum modification works beautifully. Trans shifts better than ever before. The throws seem a bit shorter and much more positive. If you don't want the Baker drum, try modifying the stock drum like I described in a post above.  | ||
| Jackbequick |
With the clutch and primary chain adjusted right, I get a clunk from neutral to low and another more metallic clank from 1st to 2nd. The rest of the shifts are pretty much unnoticeable. I've come to think of that as characteristic of the transmission. I think the noises have to do with the dogs engaging and whether they are on the primary or idler shaft. Does the Baker drum or your mod change any of those noises? I don't really mind the noises but I am curious about it. Jack | ||
| Cyclonemaniac |
My M2 was a little noisy(would clunk) when shifting into 1st or from 1st to 2nd as yours does now. After my mod to the stock drum, my tranny is very quiet. My XB also clunks loudly. I think it's largely due to the trans design. The new bikes are very quiet with the helical gears. I did switch from using S/E 20W50 Synthetic in the Primary to Lucas 75W90 Synthetic. That may have helped smooth out the trans also. | ||
| Jackbequick |
Oh, okay. I got crossed up in the thread and thought you had drilled and tapped a Baker drum. I'm happy enough with the shifting on the stock trans, I don't do any racing or aggressive shifting so its fine. Jack | ||
| Billfish |
All of your comments have been very helpful. I am leaning heavily towards installing the Baker Kit. Bill | ||
| Mmmi_grad |
i am starting to hate my transmission. Bought bike at 1000 miles found primary oil in sad condition maybe never changed. Changed oil helped shifting alot then got chain carefully adjusted. Was decent but now i have been doing alot of in town running around and when bike gets hot my gearbox is now good with shifting but getting into neutral has become a nightmare. Everything works great cold or highway. Sounds like I got a winter project. But im not in the mood to blow a bunch of cash on it either. Some mechanic told me getting the shifter adjusted can help alot however I dont believe any trick for the shifter has anything to do what im seeing. Kinda disappointed here. | ||
| Cyclonemaniac |
How many miles on the bike now? Do you do many power shifts? You may have a broken detent plate clip and/or pins backing out of the shifter drum. This is a pretty common failure mode, that's why I modified my stock drum to use a bolt when my detent plate clip broke. | ||
| Mmmi_grad |
about 4000 miles at this time, I dont beat it hard but the original owner used to race so maybe he caused this. It for sure needs inspected. | ||
| Natexlh1000 |
If neutral is more hard than normal, I would look at the clutch cable. Also, remember that the primary chain will get a bit more tight when the engine warms up. Even if the bike is normal, neutral can be hard to get. I find that if you apply a light upwards force on the shifter and gradually crack open the throttle to about 1,200 RPM, the vibes will rattle the tranny into neutral. I might have read about that trick on this board. |
