| Author | Message | ||
     Stevek1125r |
Spend your money on what ever you want... you earned it.... Just be ready for whatever aftermath comes, whether it is good or bad..... Me personally, i can't see the point in spending money on LEVERS... it is like buying fancy race pedal covers for a GEO.. sure they look great whether they were expensive or not, but Does it REALLY make you any better, faster, etc..... ??? | ||
| Datsaxman |
Yes, Stevek...the shorty levers make it easier to multi-task with the right hand. Also easier to grip the bars with the right. See post above...they. work. better. Now go drive your Geo. I am going to go ride my Buell. The one with the shorty levers. | ||
| Dannybuell |
>>> Go buy an auto part, it is made in China or Taiwan. >>>Try to stay focused. My question which you dodged was in response to your claim >>>that America doesn't have domestic >>>industries. In the seventies 300,000 jobs lost in the clothing and shoe industries. Cars at one time were 1/6th of American industry, big subject so it is the primary focus. >>>Do the factories assembling automobiles and other vehicles not count as industry? Assembling is the word, not Manufacturing assembling. ad hominem is latin for personal attacks. I don't call you ignorant or trollish, don't lower yourself. You can do better, if you are a man of integrity. If China is so peaceful and willing to let America be the 'international policeman' (their words) why are they building Stealth planes, cruise missiles and more. Who are they afraid of North Korea? >>>Stretch the boundaries of civility long enough and the weakest link will break (causing assassinations and murders). >>>A non-answer. The answer is very close, look at yourself name calling and such. You get upset with anything that you don't agree with. We should all thank God we have sound minds and are able to practice our christian values of love, acceptance, and tolerance. >>>What we have instead is a culture of victim-hood and entitlement where irresponsible behavior is actually subsidized by our government. This just leads to even more irresponsible and criminal behavior. Please give an example or two. >>>Try to pay attention. Note the tea party protests? Yes I have and I agree with many of the points they are making. Civility is important to any society. >>>It doesn't take an education to compete with the 3rd world. Factories making widgets generally don't need much more than semi-skilled labor. >>>They and their greedy big union bosses pulled the rug out from under them in some cases. The wages and benefits became >>>outrageous. I tell >>>them to stop depending upon corrupt big union thugs to represent them and dictate their professional lives >>>for them, to look out for themselves like everyone else does. Those arguments are 50 years old. from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Labor_unions_in_the_U nited_States "American union membership in the private sector has in recent years fallen under 9% — levels not seen since 1932. Unions allege that employer-incited opposition has contributed to this decline in membership." Wow, unions are 9% of the work force, makes the union argument look weak. | ||
| Jules |
Me personally, i can't see the point in spending money on LEVERS... it is like buying fancy race pedal covers for a GEO.. sure they look great whether they were expensive or not, but Does it REALLY make you any better, faster, etc..... ??? That's a reasonable question The same is true of a lot of the "aftermarket" items lots of people fit to their bikes, does a tail tidy help you brake later or hit the apex (I'm sure if it did they'd sell more LOL), mini-LED indicators don't help to improve the bike unless it's the aesthetic appeal (and that's subjective too). I'd quite happily admit I bought the levers for their looks (I did) but I'm actually quietly pleased that they have actually improved my riding experience, they "feel" (again a subjective comment) better, I am able to apply more finesse to the braking and braking with 2 fingers feels as strong as it did before with 4. Your best bet would be to try a bike with them on and see if you can feel any change (good or bad) then decide on the Chinese or not chinese argument  Or just spend the money on tires and gas | ||
| Rogue_biker |
Jules, the feeling of nationalistic pride is present in ANY country. However, the bitter feelings of outsourcing is very new to Americans as it has been going on for only two decades! Many people we know or used to know, or even people in here, have been personally hit with the effects of outsourcing because to us, it is very recent. Thus, understand where people are coming from. I personally know many people who lost their jobs because of outsourcing back in the 90's and in this decade. We only have ourselves to blame because of two main factors: people prefer to spend less (naturally), and Americans want to get paid more with more benefits (naturally). The Chinese and Mexicans are willing to work for wages that Americans are not. Also, the US has environmental, insurance, and safety standards we have to abide by while China and Mexico are much more lax. Hence, the whole business environment is rife for outsourcing. Europe is also experiencing the same thing. So is the UK (maybe even more there). In all cases, it is an economically painful transition that may take a whole generation to get over. | ||
| Dannybuell |
Rogue_biker - +1. A college education costs more now than anytime in recent history. In Oregon and many parts of America the drop out rate in high schools in over 30%. Those people more than any other group will also suffer, there are less and less semi-skilled and un-skilled jobs than ever before. As American society dumbs down, with economic opportunity diminishing what will keep crime and other anti social behaviours from rising? | ||
| Jules |
Rogue - I agree, hopefully nothing I said made it seem I was trying to trivialise the situation. I am genuinely impressed at how "Proud to be an American" most Americans are, to be honest it is in itself something to be proud of. Outsourcing has been a "fact of life" in the UK for about the same amount of time, it sucks (really). A lot of UK companies are bringing their work back onshore at the moment as they have realised that it's not quite as cost effective as originally thought and that customers don't enjoy the experience of speaking to a callcenter in New Dehli...(rightly or wrongly). I know it's a heartfelt topic on all sides, I was just trying to keep the thread somewhere approximate to the original topic. | ||
| Rogue_biker |
It certainly is a heartfelt topic Jules. I think that's true in most countries. Everyone feels pride when they know something good is made in their homeland. For almost as far as I can remember, I was told that "Made In The USA" meant the best. I learned later in life that is not true. Then, I was told "Made in China" meant crap. Again, I learned lately that is not true either. I was also told British electrics are horrible (Lucas). Well the current Triumph motorcycles have certainly proved that wrong. Dannybuell, I read that the Y-Generation has the highest level of College Drop outs or lack of higher education. That is certainly not a good thing for them. Having said that, I belong in the X-generation and there seems to be too many college-pukes in my generation and now I have to compete with them! LOL! The real "Devil" in this whole discussion of keeping jobs in America is H-D's shutting down Buell. How ironic that the only American sportbike company is shut down by another American motorcycle company! Talk about a huge step back! Well, I guess we should just all be thankful we have motorcycles to ride and fine countries with beautiful roads to ride them in. | ||
| Blake |
Danny, >>> China now has cruise type aircraft carrier killer long range missiles too. Which implies what? What is your point? They and we both have nukes. What's a little missile compared to that? Do you really believe that our Navy has no defense against enemy missiles, a threat that has been around for decades? What "China has..." trivia will you state next I wonder.  >>> In the history of mankind, there has been no greater transfer of technology than what has happened with America and China in the last 20 years. I think you are probably right, although WW-II tech transfer between America and Britain and yes even Russia, then afterwards from Germany was HUGE. >>> If the China flooded the markets with dollars, They would bankrupt themselves. >>> swept down on Taiwan Which would start a world war with us, Japan, AND our European allies supporting Taiwan, a free and democratically based nation. China would lose that war quickly and badly. Their military has progressed far in the last few decades, but at this point it is entirely inferior to our own. As long as we are not invading China proper, they have no chance in a war against us. >>> and stopped trading with America at the same time we would be very screwed. We'd manage. Pretty sure we, Japan, Germany and others are poised to pick up the slack on needed production. But I agree with your point on this and find it deplorable, irresponsible that we've allowed communist China to exploit us in the name of cheaper "stuff" for American consumers. I'd like to see the actual factual information about how much of our auto-parts are manufactured in China. >>> Our dollar would be devalued, Their reserves would be devalued in kind. A devalued dollar makes American products more attractive to other nations. Gee, what kind of effect would that have on our industry? It's false to assign only negative effects to a weaker dollar. In fact there are positive aspects to it, such as improving our export and industry competitiveness. The only negative is that we pay more for stuff. Well, maybe a $500 LCD HD TV isn't so important. >>> our secondary source of supply for auto parts would be gone and all those Chinese auto parts to fix water pumps, fuel pumps, wheel bearings, axles, alternators,... back-ordered with unknown delivery, gone. There isn't enough domestic industry left to take up the slack. Not to mention all of the American assets in China... So what? Primary source still there? >>> True China would be hurt but not mortally. China still sells to europe and the rest of the world. Uh, allies matter.  How will China fund their military if their reserves are diminished along with most of their export income? Just wondering, do you know what percentage of China's high tech and machinery type exports come to America? And what percentage of all of China's exports are comprised by high tech and machinery type exports? >>>Try to stay focused. My question which you dodged was in response to your claim >>>that America doesn't have domestic >>>industries. In the seventies 300,000 jobs lost in the clothing and shoe industries. Cars at one time were 1/6th of American industry, big subject so it is the primary focus. >>>Do the factories assembling automobiles and other vehicles not count as industry? Assembling is the word, not Manufacturing assembling. Baloney. You've obviously not visited the engineering and manufacturing facilities of any vehicle manufacturers in America. You are operating in ignorance. That is not ad hominem, it is a statement that you don't know what you are talking about, your argument lacks factual content. You stated that America has no domestic industry. That is so wildly nonsensical, there is not other proper description for it than "ignorant." Educate yourself, find truth. I have little tolerance for nonsense in a debate. "America has no domestic industry." Oh boy. "Integrity", "honor" you say? How about "honesty"? >>> If China is so peaceful Not an assumption I've made. >>> and willing to let America be the 'international policeman' (their words) why are they building Stealth planes, cruise missiles and more. Who are they afraid of North Korea? China is obviously afraid of America, Japan, Taiwan interfering with their goal of conquest over Taiwan. They absolutely WANT to take Taiwan. They WANT Taiwan's wealth and geography. It is a very long range goal for them. Taiwan wishes to remain free and independent. >>> The answer is very close, look at yourself name calling and such. Again, stating that your understanding of an issue is ignorant is not name calling. "America has no domestic industry." False and incredibly ignorant! >>> You get upset with anything that you don't agree with. I've yet to become "upset". Again ignorant and now ad hominem. >>> We should all thank God we have sound minds and are able to practice our christian values of love, acceptance, and tolerance. Neither tolerance nor acceptance of falsehood and/or ignorance is a Christian value. I admit, when I see someone make a statement like "America has no industry", then continue to defend it, I begin to doubt the credibility of anything such a person might offer. >>> Please give an example or two (victimhood and entitelment). You've got to be kidding me! LOL... 1. People being paid for three years running to not work, we're told that they are victims of the economy. 2. People being gifted loans, no collateral, no down payment, for which they cannot afford and for which they could not otherwise qualify except for the backing of the federal government. We're told that they are victims of unfair society, that they are "under-privileged". 3. People being gifted money for their living expenses, "section 8" contracts for rental property for instance. We're told that they deserve the free money because they are victims of society, they are "underprivileged". Nonsense. They are under-motivated. 4. Some 48% of wage earners paying ZERO federal income tax, yet all surely enjoying the advantages of living, working, driving, here. They don't pay because we're told they are victims of 5. The default rate on federally insured student loans, 7%. 6. People being provided government health insurance at no charge or little charge. We're told that everyone is entitled to comprehensive health care. 7. The state of the economy of California is the PERFECT example of bleading heart entitelments gone wildly amuk. Truth: Warning: >>> Yes I have (noted the tea party protests) and I agree with many of the points they are making. Then how is it you state that... Funny how the conservatives/facists/religious right --not calling you a con, just making a statement in general-- They want big brother to help the monied interests/wall street Where are there fascists in America that are influencing politics? >>> Civility is important to any society. I agree. I would say however that in the face of lies, deciet, disrespect, and outright maliciousness, more direct confrontation impolite confrontation/rebuttal is sometimes warranted. Not violence, just not polite is all. >>> Factories making widgets generally don't need much more than semi-skilled labor. That is incredibly inaccurate. It may be accurate for some of the folks working the line. Robotics are usually the preferred solution to such tasks. Even then they comprise only one portion of the work force. There are also maintenance, quality assurance and others for instance that do indeed require skills and education. Not sure what your point is anyway. >>> Those arguments are 50 years old. They apply more so today than then. >>> Wow, unions are 9% of the work force, makes the union argument look weak. Actually it supports it. Like parasites that kill their host, the greedy corrupt unions have pushed jobs out of the country and cost themselves memberships as a result. (Message edited by blake on January 12, 2011) | ||
| Blake |
>>> A college education costs more now than anytime in recent history. Supply and demand in action. College remains affordable for those who want to attend. They might not afford Harvard, but the local community colleges and state universities are a bargain. >>> In Oregon and many parts of America the drop out rate in high schools in over 30%. The high school drop out rate in Oregon is 30%?!?!? The national average in 2008 was 8%. If it is really 30% in Oregon, then it must be a lot lower in other states. >>> Those people more than any other group will also suffer, Is that not their own choice, or the fair consequence of their own choice, of them exercising their free will? Perfect. >>> there are less and less semi-skilled and un-skilled jobs than ever before. How can that be if as some decry we are losing our skilled manufacturing jobs to China? Seems that all that would remain would be unskilled jobs. >>> As American society dumbs down, What a miserable and false characterization of Americans. The only dumbing down I've seen is in our government where we are being saddled with debt and yet ever more entitlements. >>> with economic opportunity diminishing what will keep crime and other anti social behaviours from rising? Valid point. How about prison? How about returning liberty to the people to thrive and profit? How about killing off the miserably oppressive nanny state? That would do it. | ||
| Rogue_biker |
That is one LOOOooooong post! LOL! China really has no desire to expand by invasion. Instead, what they want is to expand their economy globally. In order to protect that economy, they need a strong military (especially Navy). The US is China's biggest trading partner. Why on Earth would they jeopordize that relationship? Of course they won't, not in the immediate future. I don't think the Chinese military should be our main concern. I think it is China's economic expansion and how we are going to deal with that as ours contracts. As far as China taking advantage of anything, they did what any country has done over the ages. There is a demand and a void to be filled and they stepped in because they had the advantage. The US and Britain did that prior. So what? It's not the fault of China that people want to buy cheaper stuff. Just listen to the posts here! A free market economy will almost always gravitate to the less expensive products if the quality and function match the price. The only way for US companies to compete is to either outsource, or lower US wages. They can't do the latter because Americans have a huge sense of entitlement even for making simple widgets. So they outsource. Granted some outsourcing has gone too far and too ridiculous at times. | ||
| Court |
I think you are just teasing us . . no one can be as stupid as you appear to be. Let's look at the above.
Carry on. . . . I think you are your own worst enemy and I'd wager that just like you've made all these excuses for "why we can't". . you've done it in other areas as well. Try hanging out with the "I know we can" crowd . . it'll do ya good. P.S. - "Dumbs" is not a word. (Message edited by court on January 12, 2011) | ||
| Dannybuell |
Blake China is primary, Taiwan is secondary, S. Korea is tertiary. All three are vulnerable to China. The Taiwanese may have recriprocating defense treaties with the U.S. but who knows if they would be honored if the S%^& hit the fan. --------------------------------- Court by your own citation, You should have looked further. Go to the 2008-2009 Dropout data link which will give you The XLS. When you save it is titled 'Copy of dropouttables2008-2009(1).xls' Jackson county Central Point limited english proficiency (LEP) kids Dropout Percent 50.0% -------------------------- Coos/county Destinations Academy Tot (all Students) Dropout Percent 38.0% -------------------------- Coos/county Destinations Academy NOT TAG Students (WOTAG) Dropout Percent 38.0% -------------------------- Coos/county Marshfield Senior High School ethnicity omitted by me. Dropout Percent 50.0% -------------------------- Coos/county Resource Link Charter School Students With Disabilities (WDIS) Dropout Percent 30.0% -------------------------- Douglas/county Douglas County SD 15 ethnicity omitted by me. Dropout Percent 33.3% I could go on.... -------------------------- college costs, I know academics don't like wiki. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/College_tuition#Histo rical_trends Yes Court college costs are going up. -------------------------- Court Over the years I have worked in a professional capacity with many extremely brilliant people at Intel, Portland State University college of engineering and computer science and the PSU school of business administration.... -------------------------- Court ask me to tell you about the intern I worked with who left mainland China for an education in Hong Kong where she lived alone in her own apartment at the age of 12! She later went to high school in Seattle and earned her BA at University of Portland. Better yet I can tell you about the Vietnamese Intel engineer that developed several motherboards by himself. At the time these tasks were done in 5 person groups. I won't say the name of the two letter corporation they were designed for. -------------------------- Court Why all the name calling? I substantiated my drop out argument with your own citation. Raise the bar on yourself, you will feel better in the long run. ----------------------------- Blake and Court Come to Portland and I will introduce you to some very polite people, breathe some fresh air it'll do ya good! We can do a group ride, I'll show you the some of the towns where generational poverty has existed for decades. | ||
| Tippster |
I like pie. | ||
| Court |
Hahaha . . . so when you SAID OREGON, which is indeed less than 4% . . you really meant to go find an individual school and cite it's stats. Frankly . . I'd have taken the one that had only two students . . one dropped out and they, quite accurately, reported a "50% drop out rate". Well done. By the way . . . Portland is probably one of the prettiest cities in the world. I used to go there a great deal on Buell business. I belonged to the "DTFR" Motorcycle Club the guys at Intel started. I wrote extensively about Portland, it's roses and bridges. No argument from me on Portland. . . I'll be there at least twice this year. | ||
| Blake |
>>> In Oregon and many parts of America the drop out rate in high schools in over 30%. That is false yet you continue to defend it. The state dropout rate is around 3.4%. If you are going to cherry pick a few schools, why not go with the ones showing a 100% dropout rate? LOL! >>> Blake China is primary, Taiwan is secondary, S. Korea is tertiary. All three are vulnerable to China. You have a very odd way of looking at the world, expecting China to sever their lifeblood trade with America, and then invade Taiwan, and S. Korea. They are primary and secondary for what parts? What are you talking about???  >>> The Taiwanese may have recriprocating defense treaties with the U.S. but who knows if they would be honored if the S%^& hit the fan. Are you saying that you expect America to not honor our commitments to our allies? What a disgusting miserable view of America. It's certainly not mine. Poverty has always existed. What you call poverty in America would in truth be viewed as rich gluttonous living in most of the world. Wise up. | ||
| Blake |
Interesting statement by Tax Cheat Tim...
| ||
| Kenm123t |
Court Blake +1 | ||
| Curve_carver |
I like bagels and cream cheese | ||
| Jdugger |
I like waffles. | ||
| Fast1075 |
I like Okra... | ||
| Dannybuell |
The events in Arizona this past week show us how a weak minded person can be triggered into aggressive behavior. Court and Blake, I made distortions and presented them as fact, just like talk radio. The real world in not Black or White, nor is it Left or Right as some would want us believe. Court, Blake, and All - Even people of sound mind can be triggered into aggressive behavior when distortions are presented as fact. Your responses to my recent posts clearly prove that. I was wrong to push everyones buttons. I apologize. | ||
| Zac4mac |
 | ||
| Court |
Don't feel bad . . . I overreacted as well. I've been a bit edgy lately reading, and not really being able to respond, to some of the ridiculous rumors posted as fact. I apologize. | ||
| Curve_carver |
Arrogance has gotten the best of some. | ||
| Blake |
Y'all are way too soft. I demand hard labor. Go clean up the knowledge vault and don't come out until it's done! | ||
| Curve_carver |
Now back to the levers. I received the latest Hong Kong shipping info. The levers eta will be mid next month. I will report the quality, fitment, and function of the shorty levers. I understand everyones concerns politically and safety wise. I'll get to the bottom of these chinese gumball machine levers.  | ||
| Court |
If Chinese made guitars are any indicator they will be fabulous. | ||
| Buellrain |
They do, not sue if any good though.. Why don't you order one and let us know  http://www.made-in-china.com/products-search/hot-c hina-products/Guitar.html | ||
| Court |
Interesting website . . I'd never seen that. For some reason, I suppose partially that I like the MADE IN USA deal and partially my personal affinity for to Gibson (since I bought my first in 1965) I've stuck with American made guitars. Currently I have Fender, Martin and some Gibsons. I do confess that given the reports by some top musicians I know about the great quality of the current crop of things like the Epiphone Casino and Epiphone Masterbuilts that it's tough when you are looking at, say a Les Paul, where the $399.00 Epihone and the $4,000 Gibson are, if you couldn't see the headstock, indistinguishable. I haven't broken down yet in fact I just got a Custom built Gibson and I'm lusting over a James Olson . . . but the old "they are poorly made" simply is a generalization that no longer is accurate. |
