| Author | Message | ||
     Redscuell |
"don't we all agree that a full tank of gas noticeably affects handling versus a nearly empty tank?" Face it, Fresno, you're just a contrarian when I make a post; and you make up 'facts' to support your opposition. Personally I don't notice a difference in POWER or performance when my Buell 'tank' is low; though I definitely noticed a difference in BALANCE when on my last Honda, which had a 24 litre tank mounted above the frame & carbies. I think it's a stretch to say that losing 10# off a street bike that weighs 216 kg. (weigh scale) with all fluids, makes any noticeable difference to the rider. Maybe if you're hooning away from a light to whip that 250cc cruiser? | ||
| Redscuell |
Because I have a curious nature, I tested my theory that 'any muffler sounds louder in a trailer' and put my Buell with oem muffler inside my one-car garage, with the rollup door open. Same test instrument and method as when the bike's outside on my driveway. Result: in the garage, the oem muffler posted an increase in 4 dB(A) @ 5,000 rpm (3 tests). As a benchmark, my two 'louder' mufflers so far, post NO dB(A) increase vs. the oem muffler (all tests outside); I'm guessing it's because the noise change is in the base range only. So it's noteworthy that the indoor measurement is louder in a statistically-significant way. P.S. I don't think it's a worthwhile goal, to strive for a noise increase without a power increase; and certainly not when it's possible to have both. I't not as if they're mutually exclusive results. | ||
| Blackflash |
Personally I have only met a very small portion of techs that impressed me . That was the other big issue with the buells. The tech were never trained properly and have little or no credentials at all. They are in my eyes old school technology and never improved themselves by going to buell school. It's the hippie era that screwed this nation. Half of the hippies are our Harley techs. Think what you think but I've been to many Harley shops . The Honda shop down the road from me has a sharp deptartment. But these guys are young and have had training and bettered themselves. Unlike most Harley dealerships . You can find a good Harley tech at your local bar puking on his bike that probably doesn't start and is ready to fall apart.Sad but true . Look at harleys customer satisfaction rates over imports . Better yet watch speed they did a great tour of all the manufactures facilities. They rated yamaha and Suzuki the best quality control assembally plant. The documentry was amazing. F--kin hippies?? So I believe Erik had a grea vision except the Harley crew did such a bad job they gave buell horrible wraps. I know that my 5 gear recal took a month andd that was in the middle of winter. I asked and checked if that tech has even been to a rotax class . Nope not one in northern Ohio has took one. Why well the dealer has to pay for this . What dealer is going to pay for that. Not many. Harley controls the standards for there techs. Which are very low!! There ya go Adams a quick summary where you can find your local Harley tech. He'll my cousin is a Harley vtwin certified tech . I didn't want to say it but he doesn't have a clue. Another note Harley techs don't make much. That's why they hire idiots. There ya go Adams there ya go. A quick summary. | ||
| Blackflash |
Has anyone watched the southpark episode on Harley riders. Pretty funny stuff. | ||
| Heinriech |
Hey D, How much for just this: I think I can handle the rest.  | ||
| D_adams |
PM sent. | ||
| Kaotikevo |
damn D_adams, nice work. I love the clean tight tuck under you did with this one. I think you've given me the inspiration to make my own too. Great job man it looks fantastic. | ||
| Fresnobuell |
I think it's a stretch to say that losing 10# off a street bike that weighs 216 kg. (weigh scale) with all fluids, makes any noticeable difference to the rider. I have trimmed somewhere around 20-25 pounds from my R and it noticeably transitions quicker side to side, stops faster & carries more corner speed. I am sure that it accelerates faster, however the handling difference is where the real gains lie. This effect is even more evident when I have only a couple gallons of fuel onboard. 10 pounds will not make or break any bike, but it's sure a good start to dropping some serious weight. | ||
| D_adams |
Well, the way I see it, you can lose 9 lbs on the pipe, 4-5 lbs on the battery and 2 lbs on the solenoid, right off the top. Hmm, there's 15 lbs right there at least. Not sure if this is accurate or not, but 5-6 lbs = 1 hp on the track? 2-3 hp might be enough to win? I don't know, I don't race except on the bench. I just like tinkering and seeing what can be done with the tools and skills that I have. Again, thanks for the positive responses. I do appreciate it. | ||
| Mountainstorm |
I respect the skill and thought that goes into your work D. Just a thought, have you considered using the SuperTrapp or White Bros type plates on the outlet? that way the can could really be tucked in behind the wheel. It also seems to be an easy way to "tune" the exhaust for sound and back pressure. | ||
| D_adams |
No, I never really gave that a lot of consideration. I've never been a huge fan of the disc setup, so I just did the calculations a while back and came up with what I thought would work. I guess it's a little bit heavier than it could have been and also a little larger, but I used what was commercially available for fabrication. Sure, it would have been easier to throw on a pre-made can, but it wasn't exactly what I was looking for. As far as the backpressure argument goes, I guess I'm in the camp that follows velocity, volume and maximum flow, not restriction. My only concession to that was the 2nd chamber for more sound control than anything else. It's still loud, but it's where I expected it to be. It's also a deeper note than say, a D&D or Jardine and has none of the harsh bark of either of those systems. The reason why is the diameter of the tubing I used and the way I designed the muffler. I put a little bit of thought into it, but obviously there's room for some improvement, since it runs exactly like a stock pipe for performance. It may be "lean" by all who do serious tuning, but again, I'll point out that as far as I know, not a single stock piped engine has failed yet due to the lean condition, and they can all be improved upon. All that said, sure, a different muffler could be used and tested if someone wanted to. It would only required the correct size tubing or adapter to fit up to a different can. Of course, you'd be leaning toward the same thing as the Jardine or D&D pipe at that point in my opinion, but if you wanted to, it could be done. Going the other route, if you wanted to get creative with something like a Magnaflow muffler, I'm sure you could fit one under there with a little bit of hammering at it. I think the closest one was a 4x9x11 case, which I considered too wide for what I wanted. If you're not worried about dragging on stuff, I would think you could possibly make it work. | ||
| Justa4banger |
you oughta try a spintech muffler... its a narrower box muffler.. and they are cheap.. 65.00 i think... it uses baffles as opposed to packing to muffle the sound.. and it does a good job IMO. On my turbo 4 cyl mustang, the idle sounded much like a 5.0 at a higher idle | ||
| Captain_america |
Imma Check out Spintech like a 3x7x12 or so... | ||
| D_adams |
For your viewing pleasure if you were curious about what it sounds like riding away and also a short flyby. | ||
| Justa4banger |
AWESOME.. that thing sounds tough....... thanks for the vids | ||
| Mountainstorm |
Sounds like a Buell...who'd a thunk it. Nice work. | ||
| Rpm4x4 |
Dean, if you dont mind me asking, did you buy some universal kit or did you make these parts. I certainly have the skill to build these parts from scratch but if there is a place to buy this precut/bent at a reasonable price it might not be worth my time. The sound is fantastic BTW. | ||
| D_adams |
I certainly wouldn't call it a "kit" but the mandrel bent tubing is available online at a lot of places for reasonable prices. None of it is pre-cut. All the tubing, etc. ran about $400-450 for my first build. Everything was 304 SS. The rest of the parts are available as well to "build it yourself" if you want. There are multiple configurations I could go with. Single or dual inlets, same for the outlets. Crossovers (xpipes) collectors, clamps, hangers, it's all out there. (Message edited by d_adams on January 24, 2010) | ||
| Redscuell |
"10 pounds will not make or break any bike, but it's sure a good start to dropping some serious weight." I think that's a fair statement. Consider, then, that a lighter RIDER has it all over the next guy/gal, if he/she weighs just 10# less! Put the proverbial 98# weakling on boarad, and he/she would be unbeatable? Also, then, that the side fairings m/b a bad idea for racers, as they weigh a tad more than 5# the pair. One can LOSE a lot of weight, assuming equal riders, by: running on a low fuel tank, given that a full one weighs 32# more than an empty one (for reference only; I'm not suggesting anyone try to run on an empty fuel tank). removing the headlamps, which weigh more than 3# the set. removing the mirrors, which weigh nearly 2# the pair. removing the pillion cowl and seat, which weigh nearly 3# the set. removing the belt guards and screws and inner fener, which weigh about 2# the set. and the intake solenoid @ 1.5#. especially the rear pillion peg brackets, etc, which weigh more than 3#. lightening the seat; my 'toy' seat is 1/2# lighter than the stocker. the inner airbox @ nearly 2#. with aggressive lightening, and not using the full fairings, one could remove more than 20# with a lighter exhaust; then an equal amount (another 20#) when on 1/3 tank. I've done all those things, save the lighter muffler, and can't say that my R was any more of a Fireblade beater than it was before. Might be that the nut holding the steering was inadequate.  My bike weighed in (in stock form and with a brimming fuel tank) at 216 kg, which is 476#. A far cry from the advertised dry weight of 170 kg. Anon. posted 2 years ago that BMC had weighed the R in as actually being 420# (190 kg) with all fluids and battery removed. | ||
| Fresnobuell |
Put the proverbial 98# weakling on boarad, and he/she would be unbeatable? That's the way it seems like some manufacturers are trying to beat the GOAT named Rossi. However on a more serious note, as has been stated many times--a rider is probably 80% the equation, so you can drop all the weight you want but if the rider doesn't take advantage then all is moot. | ||
| D_adams |
Hah! I could drop 100 lbs and still not go as fast as most. It's all about enjoying the ride anyway, isn't it? Having a little thump to my ride makes me happy. Losing the 9 lbs, just a bonus is all that was. | ||
| D_adams |
I will be fabricating another style muffler next week, single 2.5" inlet, dual 2" outlet, radiused exit tips. Also testing a different internal tube type, going to use the louvered pipe this time to see what effect it has on sound quality and damping. Just a slight design change, this was by request for a guy out on the west coast. If I can, I'll dyno it also, but I can't guarantee it. I'll post pics as I get it done. | ||
| Mountainstorm |
Are the outlets on the same side or on either side of the tire? Looking forward to seeing it. | ||
| D_adams |
One on each side, pointed down and out. It will be the same case as the last one, but 2" tubing instead of 2.5" and a pair of them. Also of note, to keep from burning the belt or blowing exhaust on it, I will be maintaining the same angle as it was with the first version. (Message edited by d_adams on January 26, 2010) | ||
| Dannybuell |
I am excited to know how the dual exit 2.5 will work on the dyno. dannyBuell | ||
| Geforce |
Weight savings can only truly help those riders who can take advantage of it...unfortunatley I do not have that ability. From my last track day I had about 2 gallons of fuel in the tank and rode 5 sessions. Near the end of the day I topped it off so I didn't have to strap down my VP fuel can again in case it tipped in the bed of the truck during transport. The next two sessions I could immediately feel a difference in the flickability of the bike. It wasn't enough to make me stop and go into troubleshoot mode but that extra weight did present a different feel. It is also...for me at least... to do power wheelies with less fuel than when I fill up the bike and get one last display in before turning it in for the day. Dean, the exhaust sounds great! Keep up the great work and I can't wait to see your work next time I'm up in your neck of the woods. | ||
| D_adams |
Dannybuell -- It will be 2.5" inlet (single) and 2" outlets, not 2.5" outlets on this one. I might try 2.5" at a later date, but this was specifically requested with 2" tubing and outlets. I need to come up with a decent logo/design. Anybody here good at artwork/banners? | ||
| Mountainstorm |
I'm excited about the new can. Wish I could help you with your Banner need. Surely someone here is good at that stuff. | ||
| D_adams |
I just got a call from a local buddy, he's doing something for me on the banner front. | ||
| Patkin |
D. Your work here and the pictorial record of your progress is awesome and the resulting pipe sounds fantastic. thanks for all your efforts. |
