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Tramp
| | Posted on Thursday, November 20, 2008 - 12:28 pm: | 
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Other than stating the fact that I've never been a police officer, I won't comment further on the subject on the www. |
Mikej
| | Posted on Thursday, November 20, 2008 - 12:31 pm: |
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Tramp,
are you running for Congress or something?
I edited my post to clarify what I publicly carry on a daily basis.
Motor vehicles have and can be used as weapons, similarly firearms do not have to be used as weapons. And, yes, I've used a revolver before to crack open a walnut, I was hungry and my finger was off the trigger.
As to firearms, if I have carried one concealed upon my person while out in public places then I had at that time what I believed to be legal authority or allowance or latitude to do so due to the specific circumstances during that period of time. And as to interstate and intrastate travels I do my best to stay within the legal frameworks as set forth in local as well as Federal legislations.
There is much afoot, and much more about to be afoot, regarding firearms legislations both within the United States and also worldwide in the near future. I do my best to stay legal and prudent, as I'm certain you do as well.
I won't try to decompile and assess what you wrote, I'll simply state what I did and let stand the following: I have no criminal intent, therefore if I'm driving a car or holding a firearm either would be without criminal intent and without any intent of wrongful malice. I trust that clarifies my standing and viewpoints without exposing my private parts in the process. I have no desire for any extended stays at any graybar hotel nor of entertaining any interests fostered by any residents thereof of any rude or insertive interractions that some of those residents might have in mind or might have engaged with with other residents thereof. |
Seanp
| | Posted on Thursday, November 20, 2008 - 12:57 pm: |
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You should never carry a firearm with the intent to brandish it. If you pull it out, you'd better be prepared (and trained) to use it. Either carry it in the open so people know you have it, or pull it out only to fire it with the intent to kill.
This is why I don't carry. I have guns in my house, because I am a firm believer in the castle doctrine. But I don't carry because I can't think of many plausible instances when I would need to kill a person outside of my home. (Though it's not like I can think of lots of instances to kill a person inside my home other than a home invasion, or if you don't like my cooking...  ) |
Tramp
| | Posted on Thursday, November 20, 2008 - 01:02 pm: |
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I appreciate the posted reason for editing. A good sense of humour goes a long way in keeping perspective in inane web discussions.
I don't post any information that would lend too much assistance to the wrong folks trying to track my ass down, such as school names and/or other concrete tracking records. as to this li'l nugget:
" entertaining any interests fostered by any residents thereof of any rude or insertive interractions "
I believe I urinated myself.
Well-done.
(Message edited by tramp on November 20, 2008) |
Phatkidwit1eye
| | Posted on Thursday, November 20, 2008 - 01:55 pm: |
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How is it that you carry in your "travels"...are your travels restricted to intrastate jaunts...or do you possess extremely stringent federal carries as well ?as state permits?
Most states that issue CCW licenses reciprocate with other states.
U.S. CCW Carry Concealed Reciprocity Map
In my view, the whole "put up your dukes" or "let's take this outside" attitude is far more dangerous that carrying a gun. Then again, I wouldn't be surprised if some of the folks here tell people that they are ninjas, who have to register their hands with law enforcement b/c they are deadly weapons. |
Tramp
| | Posted on Thursday, November 20, 2008 - 03:16 pm: |
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Taking it outside is much safer than throwing down in a crowded bar, and usually much less expensive.
One thing I've found is that, by taking it outside, I've occasionally reached a humourous accord with the other party, once the peanut gallery is no longer present.
While I never shy away from coming to hooks I've made a joke about it, once outside, more than once.
Usually, though, it's just an exchange of a few shots, and then an "all right, a*shole, let's knock it off" from either party, with little blood spilled, and a stiff jaw and sore ribs for a good week. |
Danger_dave
| | Posted on Thursday, November 20, 2008 - 03:27 pm: |
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>>DD - You coming to March Badness?<<
Nah. You guys should come here. |
New12r
| | Posted on Thursday, November 20, 2008 - 03:34 pm: |
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Nah. You guys should come here.
If I ever get a chance to leave the country I will come visit, as long as you got a two wheeled vehicle I can travel on! |
Danger_dave
| | Posted on Thursday, November 20, 2008 - 03:40 pm: |
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Main reason is I hate flying. |
Bill0351
| | Posted on Thursday, November 20, 2008 - 03:55 pm: |
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"In my view, the whole "put up your dukes" or "let's take this outside" attitude is far more dangerous that carrying a gun."
In my personal view the whole "put up your dukes" or "let's take this outside" attitude is far more dangerous when one of the drunk morons has a concealed weapon.
There is such a minute fraction of the population qualified to properly use a firearm that I don't think I want any fearful chicken$**t or wannabe Rambo to be able to carry.
It's as simple as that.
As it is, I am perfectly confident that if I watch myself and don't do anything stupid, I have what borders on a nonexistent chance of dieing a violent death. The same goes for my children.
If everyone who wants to carry can carry, I don't have that same level of confidence.
About the only way I will feel the need to carry a weapon is if a large enough percentage of the untrained and unqualified population does the same.
I am willing to bet that there are probably fewer than 20 non-LEO people on this list who have any business carrying a handgun.
In fact, it is probably only a fraction of one percent of the American population that has any business carrying a gun at all.
I would like about the same level of training and licensing for concealed carry that we require for pilots or LEOs.
Bill |
Danger_dave
| | Posted on Thursday, November 20, 2008 - 04:17 pm: |
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Best I can do is a rate on geezerglides. |
Tramp
| | Posted on Thursday, November 20, 2008 - 04:27 pm: |
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Hear here, Bill.
I've had guns pulled on me in too many barfights, and it changes he complexion of the event hideously.
This, alone, likely frames my opinion as much as anything else.
Cocky wannabe toughs mouthing of, only to pull weapons when confronted with an eager offer to handle things the old fashioned way.
made for some great stories though. |
Ferris_von_bueller
| | Posted on Thursday, November 20, 2008 - 04:34 pm: |
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Who wants to be pistol whipped? |
Court
| | Posted on Thursday, November 20, 2008 - 04:51 pm: |
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>>>I've had guns pulled on me in too many barfights, and it changes he complexion of the event hideously.
That's an accurate statement. Having been shot three times I am irrevocably convinced that few folks (doubtless believing what they see on television) really understand what happens in a shooting.
On tv the dude drops. In real life you'll be scrmabling to find one of those services that cleans up (blood is REALLY tough to remove) and, if a shotgun was invovled, you can put that new bay window where the wall used to be. You won't be living in your home for a while.
While in and out of protective custody I got tracked down one day and had the 2-1\2" barrel of a .38 Spl shoved past my dental work . . . it felt like a pole vaulting pole.
It really changes the way you see carrying and pretty well removes that "whip it out and wave it about to scare folks" option.
Everyone needs to decide for themself. For me, I'd never carry a weapon on a motorcycle. Try to get it out, deploy it and use it with any effectiveness only provides the other party with a merit based "self defense" case.
The "taking it outside", if you are over 18, can get a little testy too as my oldest son found out. He was studying at KU one day when 3 kids started doing rail slides on his AC unit. He went outside, asked them to knock it off and they started giving him some crap.
When the cops got there all three of them were out cold, prone in the parking lot.
No big deal until one of their father's, a hot shot attorney in Overland Park got the DA to bring charges.
About 6 months and $10,000 in legal fees later, after they openly admitted in Court that they'd started in on him with a Louisville slugger it was over . . . it was not cheap or easy.
Me? . . . I tend to avoid and don't apologize for it. |
Johnnymceldoo
| | Posted on Thursday, November 20, 2008 - 05:38 pm: |
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Guys, concealed carry is not for bars, its not for breaking up fistfights or to be used for intimidation purposes. Its something you keep secret and safe and only use when your life is in danger and you cant flee the scene(except if your at home).
Yea there are cocky assholes that use the right as an extension of their...but those guys are everywhere and will never go away. The wrongs of a few cannot and should not infringe on the rights of the many law abiding.
Dont repeat instances where criminals with no concealed carry permit nor right to own firearms shot at or brandished their weapon at you and then try to make a case about why law abiding citizens shouldnt be allowed to carry a weapon. Its not a valid argument.
If it is then maybe we should also argue about letting the average Joe buy a 150 horsepower motorcycle because you know alot of these cocky kids go out act like a fool and endanger public safety. Or maybe we should govern them to 80-90 mph. Europe has been trying to this for awhile Ive read. We all know how progressive and cutting edge EU is  |
Dick8008
| | Posted on Thursday, November 20, 2008 - 11:03 pm: |
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I find it hard to ride with a condom on. But that's just me.... |
Danger_dave
| | Posted on Thursday, November 20, 2008 - 11:06 pm: |
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Nobody buying that huh. OK, main reason is I can't afford it.
The Pacific Peso has tanked. |
Phatkidwit1eye
| | Posted on Thursday, November 20, 2008 - 11:25 pm: |
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I would like about the same level of training and licensing for concealed carry that we require for pilots or LEOs.
Police Training
I guarantee you I practice and put more rounds down range than your average LEO. Hell, last time I went to register my hand gun, the LEO I turned my gun over to didn't even check the chamber to see if it was loaded. Yet, you only trust them with guns.
One thing I've learned, is that a badge doesn't guarantee a damn thing.
Getting my CCW license required me to take a class that I had to pay $200 for, go through a long background check, be finger printed, then pay another $100 to the state. Further, I'm not allowed to conceal carry while at a bar or under the influence.
I don't go looking for a fight. As a fairly large man, one thing I've learned about fighting, is that no one is going to throw a punch without a ace up their sleeve. Be it a weapon or their buddies hiding out of sight.
I sincerely hope you never have to face any type of danger. However, if you do have to defend your life or the lives of your family, you wont be prepared. At the very least, I know I will be.
Maybe I'm just a crazy, but there is this thing we have that protects people's RIGHT to keep and bear arms. You know, the one you took an oath to uphold (assuming you're the guy in your profile picture). |
Johnnymceldoo
| | Posted on Thursday, November 20, 2008 - 11:35 pm: |
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In fact, it is probably only a fraction of one percent of the American population that has any business carrying a gun at all.
Why stop there? How about operating a vehicle or serving food. We all know more people die in the US from vehicle accidents than shootings.
This discussion needs more facts and less emotion driven hyperbole. } |
Johnnymceldoo
| | Posted on Thursday, November 20, 2008 - 11:39 pm: |
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Maybe I'm just a crazy, but there is this thing we have that protects people's RIGHT to keep and bear arms. You know, the one you took an oath to uphold (assuming you're the guy in your profile picture).
it is probably only a fraction of the American population that has any idea what the constitution is and why it was written.
} |
Fester99
| | Posted on Friday, November 21, 2008 - 01:03 am: |
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Very nice PhatKid +10 |
B00stzx3
| | Posted on Friday, November 21, 2008 - 11:02 am: |
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Defintley not for barfights or 1-on1. They gotta weapon or theres more than one, they're coming at you unfair so you gotta even it up. |
Bill0351
| | Posted on Friday, November 21, 2008 - 11:14 am: |
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From my earlier post:
"I'm not a fan of unregulated concealed carry laws and I don't view carrying a concealed weapon wherever you go as a Constitutional right. I don't see any "well regulated militia" aspect to packing a Glock every time you go to Wal-Mart. Even though the Heller vs D.C. ignored the preface to the amendment, (the Supreme Court) still kept the focus of the decision to having a weapon in your home.”
From Johnnymceldoo:
"it is probably only a fraction of the American population that has any idea what the constitution is and why it was written."
Demonstrating that he is one of the vast majority who really don't understand the Constitution and haven't given much though as to how complex and difficult it is to properly interpret how it impacts gun rights. Read the text of the 2nd Amendment. It isn't nearly as simple as the "right to keep and bear arms." There is a preface to that section that most people try to ignore.
Whenever you leave your personal property, your rights are balanced against the greater good of society.
And yes...
That is my picture in my profile (not wearing my CIB). I could also post the one of me in my USMC uniform.
Maybe my service and my experiences gave me the confidence to not think I need to go around with a gun on my person. I think people who do carry must leave the door of their house afraid of their own shadow. It makes them feel more manly and confident to walk around with a gun.
I don't need that. Some people do. I just hope they have enough training to not kill some innocent bystander when they decide to go all Dirty Harry in some Applebees parking lot.
“This discussion needs more facts and less emotion driven hyperbole.”
The one fact you posted is irrelevant and not related to the topic and hand, and you obviously only have a vague idea what the word hyperbole means.
Phatkids point about the LEO who couldn’t handle a weapon probably does way more to prove my point than it does to prove his own. If a guy who makes his living carrying a weapon and using it to protect and serve has borderline skills, then I’m even more nervous about the average civilian carrying, even if he did take an complete and entire $200.00 class to get his permit.
Bill |
Hitman44139
| | Posted on Friday, November 21, 2008 - 12:27 pm: |
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All well put Bill!!!
A few questions everyone should ask themselves if they consider to carry Im sure there are many more but for now:
1. Why am I carrying? to be puffing my chest and be tough or to protect myself and my loved ones.
2. Do I have the training to be able to carry?
The responsibility is huge. As Bill said " I just hope they have enough training to not kill some innocent bystander when they decide to go all Dirty Harry in some Applebees parking lot. Train is key along with mindset.
3. Are you really prepared to take a mans life if need be.
Before you answer this one with "HELL YA!!" It's not just a matter of "he tried to hurt or kill me". It's a matter of your responsibility. Did you do everything humanly possible not to have to take a life. Are you willing to live the rest of your life with your decision? There will be legal ramifications after.... Whether it was legal or not the person you shot has family they will ( most likely) sue your ass in civil court. Will you win??
4. Do you really have enough training to know what your carrying? Putting lots of rounds down range is one thing..... Putting them down range responsibly and with training from a professional that has "real world " training is another.
5. Are you going to join in and be the Rambo Hero at the mall or the local Walmart? If you thing you will.... seek some training. It may not be not the best choice. " Hmmm am I / or my family/friends in eminent danger?
A $200.00 class isn't enough in anyway shape or form. Consider all of this Before You leave the house with a gun on your hip.
Im not tooting my horn but. I have been training with some of the worlds best tactical shooting companies in the world for the last 8 years. I just started carrying on a daily basis in the last 1 1/2 years. Thats me...... I don't want to ever use my skills ever..... but todays society is changing. It's my choice and my mind set. Just because the constitution says I have a right to bare arms doesn't mean I should. I have met many people that have been shooting since they were kids and say they know how to shoot. Most shouldn't in my opinion have a gun. Some have actually pointed there unloaded gun at me. Not so good.... But it was unloaded they say after I take it and beat them with it. (just kidding!! I'd like to though)
I may be on a rant but I hold my right to have arms dearly. Not only do I like the machines themselves. I enjoy the time I spend with my friends and family at the range. The Idea of carrying as a method of defense is my last possible option. Even though Ohio has a castle law doesn't mean I'm taking a mans life for breaking down my door. It's only a door. Now my family and myself are different. The situation changes there.
So should you if you do carry?
Should you if you don't ?
Both are a life threatening and changing decision.And are yours to make. Is it for you maybe maybe not.
Guns are only machines and cannot do harm on there own. It's the Monkey pulling the trigger that turns it into a bad thing. The term"monkey " isn;'t by any means meant to be racist. It is a term used to describe how easily it can be turned to something bad very very easily. Even a monkey/Caveman can use it....... So don't jump on me because of the use of the word please. See I should't even have to write that but..... thats another time and thread I guess.
TRAIN TRAIN HARD and train with the right people for the right reasons!!
"RANT OFF" |
Cowboy
| | Posted on Friday, November 21, 2008 - 12:38 pm: |
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I never thought of carring until I was past 70. Now I want what is mine left a lone ,car truck. bike and most of all my self and famiy. remember If you mess with a OLD MAN be sure you have talked it over with GOD. |
2008xb12scg
| | Posted on Friday, November 21, 2008 - 05:13 pm: |
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If you mess with a OLD MAN be sure you have talked it over with GOD.
classic! |
Tramp
| | Posted on Friday, November 21, 2008 - 05:18 pm: |
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"I never thought of carring until I was past 70. Now I want what is mine left a lone ,car truck. bike and most of all my self and famiy. remember If you mess with a OLD MAN be sure you have talked it over with GOD."
F*ckin-A, Cowpoke
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