| Author | Message | ||
     José_quiñones |
RoadRacingworld's Dyno got the following:  FWIW.... | ||
| José_quiñones |
RRW's David Swarts' review ended as follows: "To think engineers in Milwaukee took a V-Rod and turned it into something you can trail brake until you drag your knee on a tight canyon road is simply amazing" | ||
| Socoken |
I ride and M2, and my friends mostly ride IL4's. every once in a while, i will get the hankering to rev something to 14k or something retarded like that and go nuts with wheelies and such. so, anytime we are out riding around, all i have to ask is, "anyone wanna switch till the next stop?" someone always offers, and i usually get to pick which ride i want. they all love the Buell. reason most commonly given= "its just fun to ride." at some point or another, someone always says, "i should sell mine and get a Buell." but most of them just cant get over the spec sheet "hump." for me, it was well worth it. if they sold a Buell with a V-rod motor, i wouldnt even consider buying it. thats for a lot of reasons, most have been mentioned above. but i bought my bike because i loved what it was, not what other people think it should be. i like that its clean looking, easy to work on, low on maintenance, and almost devoid of dealer only type maintenance. it sounds great, is reliable as hell, and has a v-twin soul, which i love. i guess what i am trying to say, is, if you like oranges better than apples, then buy fricking oranges! nobody likes orples (orange-apples, get it?) Ken | ||
| Xlcr |
I think they are doing well with the the current line of development. According to the recent article in CW about the Buell racers, a gen III engine with a larger bore, shorter stroke, 8500 RPM redline,and a two-barrel throttle body will be powering the racers. A street version of such an engine would be smoother, quicker revving, and could probably make as much as 110 HP in street trim. That sounds fine to me. The only real reason I'd like to see a more expensive water-cooled model in the line-up is to finally silence the critics who have been complaining about no 'real' American superbikes for so long. | ||
| Anonymous |
JQ, OK, believe it that the V-Rod is a superb bike that outhandles Buells, a real canyon carver. But pray that you don't run across me with my 9 on a winding road when you are showing it off to your friends. I've ridden it, and it's a joke compared to a Buell. | ||
| Buells Rule! (Dyna in disguise) |
I've seen dynos with close to 92 HP for lightly modded XB9's (race filter, race ECM, drummer). The 9's I have seen with similar mods are in the upper 70's to mid 80's, certainly nowhere near 92 unless the particular dyno is very very happy. The 12's on the other hand are more than capable of 92 hp easily. | ||
| Reepicheep |
My 9sx was at 76 with the airbox mods, but only a thousand or so miles on it, and completely stock exhaust. Weren't there some drummer and force plots floating around here for 9's with dyno's nosing into the 90's? I thought for sure I saw some. Maybe that also had the F.A.S.T. system... | ||
| Slaughter |
All I can say is that if Buell does stick a litre-class DOHC/4valve twin into a street bike - it smells to me like a setback for us racers - BECAUSE of the advantages given to the 2 valve aircooled motors. It'd go up against the other litre-class twins - Mille Factory, 999R Duck, RC-51 - that mob. I just hope if Buell does make a liquid cooled twin, they keep supporting the current generation air cooled stuff (though there's a big aftermarket) I think every race organization has a twins class that fits the Buell (and BMW/Guzzi/HD) very well - (as do most for the SV650 by the way too) | ||
| Charlieboy6649 |
I think Gonen put it best. Stop trying to make the XB something it's not. It is what it is. If you don't like what it is, buy something that fits your mold. I feel that trends, market research, and forward thinking will drive the decision on what Buell's next bike will be. If that happens to be water cooled, when it's introduced, I'm sure Buell will wow us all at how "different" they did it; compared to everyone else. I for one would like to see a clean slate too... So, Erik, if you're reading; an air cooled triple rotary engine good to 12,000 would sure be "different", wouldn't it? Mazda has shown that with new exotic materials, rotary is reliable. The engine is lightweight, has gobs of power on a good usable powerband all the way up. Bam!! Now that's outside the box!  | ||
| Steve_a |
Jose -- you need to compare apples to apples. The CW results came from the same dyno. I believe XB12's have tested as high as 98 hp on some dynos -- wasn't that the number from Sport Rider on there first test of the 12? It's not at all clear that different brands of inertial dynos give the same results, particularly as they all appear to have fudge factors built in to better match brake dynos. There will also certainly be bike to bike variation. In any case, CW has measured power differences between Street Rod and Buell XB12 of closer to 8 than 15 horsepower. (Theoretically, inertial dynos should under-report power compared to brake dynos, as power is required to accelerate crankshaft and other engine flywheel masses in inertial dyno testing, not in semi-steady state brake testing. These effects aren't calculated in any inertial dyno I know, but are instead are "fudged" with a generic fit factor. High-inertia bikes (Big Twins and XB12s, and to a lesser extent, the V-Rod) will always look somewhat worse on an inertial dyno than they will on step-and-hold testing on a brake dyno.) | ||
| José_quiñones |
Anonymouse is real good at putting words in peoples mouths. Your wife must be really understanding (if you're married that is)..... Never claimed a VRSCR could out handle a Buell, especially with equal riders on board. The rider is more important, that is clear. For what it is (a sport cruiser) the VRSCR so far seems to be without peer. That will change, but for now HD has that niche pegged. Maybe Victory will resurrect the old SC, a bike ahead of its time. Steve, I agree, apples to apples, dynos to dynos, I'm just pointing out that your dyno is not gospel. ___________________________________________________ The reason there will be a water cooled Buell at some point is the same reason a water cooled Harley Davidson exists: The market demands it, and HD/Buell want to sell to that market. A large percentage of VROD owners came from "foreign" bike brands, the VRSCR is going to increase that percentage even more. If Buell wants to sell 20, 30 thousand bikes a year, they will need to cater to that market. Otherwise, they and the mothership will have to be happy with selling 9-12 thousand bikes worldwide every year for the foreseeable future. (Message edited by José_quiñones on March 03, 2005) | ||
| Grndskpr |
I dont mind the Anons posting, actually i think its kinda cool from time to time, but to take cheep shots at people then run is not only done in poor tastes, but inapropriate, sorry thats how i feel, and saying what was said about Jose is a cheep shoot Maybe at homecoming you can say it to his face, since reading is not a strong point Thanks for the clarification Crusty, i thought Blake was somehow involved, either way if a sportster motor is different from a Buell 1200, what is going to be different between the revo and an H2O cooled motor in a buell, i like what enthusist said, fraternal twins R | ||
| M1combat |
I certainly think we'll see a water cooled engine (maybe not this year), but I don't think it'll be too closely related to the Revo. I do expect it to be DOHC, but that's not exactly something that the revo pioneered  . I REALLY want to see either a V4 or a rotary (If it can be done w/o way too much rotational mass...). Also... weren't rotary engines always reliable? | ||
| Sarodude |
Rotary - too much surface to volume WRT combustion surfaces. Hurts efficiency & mileage - and on a bike, a rotary would need a MONDO freakin radiator. Reliability? The only thing wrong with roatries as far as I know is the owners of RX7s who refuse to read the owner's manual - especially the section that tells you to CHECK AND FILL THE FREAKIN' OIL FREQUENTLY CAUSE THE ENGINE IS DESIGNED TO USE SOME OF IT. I love rotaries! I'd love a rotary powered bike! Given the reasons for sticking with the XL derived motor - I'm not sure Buell would be interested in Rotary. -Saro | ||
| Bandm |
Suzuki RE5 492cc, 62HP, 1975?, Hmmm? | ||
| Jscott |
What about a 4 stroke version of the original Square Four? | ||
| Chris_mackay |
If only it was water cooled.  | ||
| Sokota |
Eric Buell + KTM 990 = uh OH , just a simulation of fantasy concept. i think there is an inherent charm with this sportster air cooled lump that will have to be sacraficed in the quest for more power,but that charm is why i bought the bike,sh.t now ime confused. | ||
| M1combat |
I don't think it'll need to be sacrificed to keep up with the duck twins, RC's, Aprilias etc, but to keep up with a CBZGSXZR-1000 it will... | ||
| Bigeasy |
I saw a street rod the other day for the first time in person at HD of Baton Rouge. Sat on it and it felt good, heavy of course compared to my lightning. Only problem I had with it was the pipes. Doesnt look right at all, they stick out on the right side about a foot. They make the bike look really lopsided. Now maybe if they could have run those pipes under the engine and take a page out of Buells book it would look great! Or even under the seat and out the back. I know its not HDs style though but just my 2 cents. Sorry guys I know this thread is about the engine in a Buell but thought I would throw this out there. By the way I like the engine I have now and I also think Buell will find a way to get even more out of it in the future. Hey anony how about a 6th gear please with sugar on top? That is my only complaint about my bike other then that Great job Buell!!! Art | ||
| Xlcr |
I was thinking that they should keep the air-cooled models and add an expensive water-pumper at the top of the line, much as Ducati has. Their water-cooled models have not stopped the air-cooled ones from being their best sellers. Buell should make an expensive limited production water-pumper just for the halo effect, like the Harley CVO models, not intended for mass production. And while they are at it, why bother to make it only 1000cc? The AMA has already said FX is the class of the future, so keep developing the XB as the racing model, and make the water-cooled bike 1200-1300cc. That way, instead of being only 10 or 15 HP more than an improved XB motor, it could make 130-140 HP and really give the competition a run for its money! I've noticed the newly resurrected Moto Morini has a 1200 v-twin out that's making a claimed 140 HP. One of those or something similar should be just the ticket. Sorry if I keep bringing up buying an engine, but from where I sit, Harley seems to be just too cheap to let Erik develop one of his own. Yes, I know the XB is a ways past a Sporty engine, but they are still saving big $$$ by building it on Sportster tooling. Of course, that keeps the prices down, which is good. But I'm thinking a small number of price no object bikes would do the company a world of good. After all, People may buy Monsters, but it's the 916s, 996s, 999s, that have given Ducati its reputation. | ||
| Trolldaddi |
I like many others posting here like my bike the way it is. If I was worried about HP, I would have bought an I-4, but I like what Buell has done with the XB's. | ||
| Xlcr |
(Sigh) Like I keep saying, I too, like the Buells just the way they are, but I'm seeing a lot of signs that Buell is not living up to Harley's sales expectations, and I'm afraid they won't be around much longer if they don't do something soon. They need a big race victory, like at Daytona, but that's not going to happen on the current shoestring budget. Or they need a model that really sets the world on fire, even if they only make a few of them. And they need it soon, before Harley gives up and bows out of the sport bike game. Think it can't happen? Oh, but it can, I'm still riding the XLCR I bought new in 1977, and all these years later, I'm still waiting for Harley to step forward and really get serious about the sport bike market. Buell is my best hope, but I'm beginning to think that once again they will be a day late and a dollar short. | ||
| Thepup |
I believe that Xlcr has it right,a company needs and wants growth,as much as the ppl on this sight love their Buells,the majority of ppl look at them as a bike not worthy to own.Keeping all Buells aircooled could mean that in the future there will be no Buell,then what?Will it be worth keeping a few ppl happy who already have Buells.I think they should still keep the engine they have now and make a liquid cooled one.I know ppl keep talking about weight,read the other post and look what Slaughter has to say about the times on his XB and SV650 that has 20 less HP,watercooling didn't seem to hurt him to bad.Ppl bought Gremlins,Hornets and Pacers,most ppl thought of them as junk,but there where I'm sure some brand loyal ppl who bought them,buthow long has it been since AMC has made a car?These are things to think about. | ||
| M1combat |
I'm not against water cooling... Go read the thread again. I'm against a revo engine in a Buell. Not enough benefit. | ||
| Sokota |
i wonder how many wadded up napkins Eric has thrown away with ruff sketches of air and water cooled designed engines.if nothing else die n' to make the sportster lump more compact,shrink wrapped.geared primary,over under trans,overhead cam,keep the throbbin' crank for street,racing crank for pure sport. H2o is best way to keep up with stricter emissions. These Buell XB motors are just slam fun, enjoy em , wait to see what Eric comes up with next,Buell is here to stay. | ||
| Davegess |
Sigh) Like I keep saying, I too, like the Buells just the way they are, but I'm seeing a lot of signs that Buell is not living up to Harley's sales expectations, and I'm afraid they won't be around much longer if they don't do something soon. Simply not true. Buell is on the way to there best year ever. Sales are good but more importantly revenues are better and sales in key markets of key bikes are great. Now José can jump in and tell total bikes produced are less and all but I hear that Buell is doing fine. And we cna all help them do better, go buy stuff  | ||
| Chris_mackay |
I don't think Mr. Buell would be out buying a new bike XB if things where less than okee dokey. UNLESS.... Oh NO! Now I know why he bought one! Buell is going out of business and he just bought the last one to come off the line! What a move! He's gonna be rich when he sells it to Jay Leno in 10 years! | ||
| Court |
The internet is a well spring of information. | ||
| Grndskpr |
but I'm seeing a lot of signs that Buell is not living up to Harley's sales expectations, and I'm afraid they won't be around much longer if they don't do something soon. I belive that is about 180 degrees from true, actually i think they might be doing better than most expected, dont understand why anybody would think otherwise, the producation of a motorcycle that is H20 or air cooled, has nothing to do with how a company is run, nor does it have to do with profitability, and while i would love to see a new H2O cooled bike, i dont think its something Buell HAS to do to sell more bikes, and in reality my guess is Buell is getting close to one of its best years/bike lines ever, However saying that, it will not stop me from think of what ifs and what could be's, but its only for fun and does not effect anybody else but my imagination, again all in fun R |
