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Buellrobot
| | Posted on Sunday, September 25, 2011 - 04:47 pm: | 
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NY > SF and I just had a bunch of oil explode from out of primary (I think). It's all over the left half of the engine case, above the primary cover, and splashed back, covering left half of rear tire. Removed primary cover and there's really no oil in there. Checked oil under seat and it was ok.
I'm up on highway 1, south of Monterrey ... found wifi at a hotel and am with a friend who is in a car (long story, but she's moving from la to SF this weekend, as I happen to be passing through).
I took pictures of where I think the leak originated .... it's the center gasket on the engine block, going straight down center of bike.
Wondering if there's any stopgap measure to make bike rideable 60 miles to Monterrey or if I gotta get it towed?
Gonna try to post images in a sec.
(Message edited by buellrobot on September 25, 2011)
(Message edited by buellrobot on September 25, 2011) |
Buellrobot
| | Posted on Sunday, September 25, 2011 - 05:06 pm: |
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This is the close up
This is slightly further back (dark center is where the above picture is from)
And here's the full perspective. |
Jim2
| | Posted on Sunday, September 25, 2011 - 05:40 pm: |
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It's hard to tell but to me it appears that it's coming from higher up than the split in the engine case halves. Seems doubtful that it would be the engine case. that extra gasket material always makes it look like that would be a source. There is quite a bit on the frame up high under the air box. Check to make sure your breather bolts haven't worked their way loose. Check all oil lines for cracks especially at ziptie and at hose clamp points. Wiggle your starter to make sure it's not loose. It could be clutch fluid not engine oil. I think your calling the cam cover the primary. Primary is on left side of engine case. Cam cover on right. Look up under the right side and you'll see the oil pump. reach up and wiggle it and see if it's loose. |
Gmaan03
| | Posted on Sunday, September 25, 2011 - 05:44 pm: |
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That sucks! and such a pretty ride area! Good luck! How long are you in SF for? You can use my garage if needed. I am in Napa just up the road. |
Gmaan03
| | Posted on Sunday, September 25, 2011 - 05:47 pm: |
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Well if it is just a loose oil line lucky you.
Good luck |
Reepicheep
| | Posted on Sunday, September 25, 2011 - 05:50 pm: |
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Much more likely to be a rocker box leak... which is at the top of the rear cylinder.
Could also be a crank seal leak (which blows primary fluid out the primary oveflow tube, which might be misrouted or have a hole up there somewhere) |
Bartimus
| | Posted on Sunday, September 25, 2011 - 06:03 pm: |
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i'm with Reep, sounds like the crank seal if only the primary is low. |
Buellrobot
| | Posted on Sunday, September 25, 2011 - 06:05 pm: |
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Just realizing I said the oil was on the right half of the bike/tire, it was actually on left side of the rear tire, same as the primary case, which is totally empty right now. There was a small pool of oil further over, to the left of that busted gasket thing in the picture, sort of on top of the engine case.
Yeah, that oil on the right side is from something that has been leaking out of the breather bolts for quite some time... been meaning to check out the tubing coming off there for a while now. The other side of the bike is where the majority of the oil has actually spattered out and it's fresh light colored oil, not dark looking like the engine oil.
I'm in SF until the 3rd of october (but am best man in a wedding in the middle of the time, so won't be totally available to focus on this).
(Message edited by buellrobot on September 25, 2011)}
(Message edited by buellrobot on September 25, 2011) |
Reepicheep
| | Posted on Sunday, September 25, 2011 - 06:50 pm: |
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that busted gasket thing is nothing, they put goo in there, then press the cases together, and it comes out as flashing. They don't bother to clean it. That is NOT indicitive of a leak in any way. Every tuber has it.
It's a crank seal. Lots of good threads here on replacement. You don't need the factory tool, but it helps, as you MUST NOT seat it too deeply. |
Buellistic
| | Posted on Sunday, September 25, 2011 - 06:59 pm: |
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READ MY POST ON "IS IT TIME FOR A NEW CLUTCH" !!! |
Reepicheep
| | Posted on Sunday, September 25, 2011 - 09:35 pm: |
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How on earth do you come to that conclusion Lafayette? |
Essmjay
| | Posted on Sunday, September 25, 2011 - 09:44 pm: |
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If it was the crank seal the primary would be overfull, not empty. There are only a few places to lose the primary oil, the stator plug, starter gasket, cover gaskets, overflow. |
Reepicheep
| | Posted on Sunday, September 25, 2011 - 11:18 pm: |
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Are you saying that based on experience Essmjay? A crank seal would let pressure from the piston on the down stroke blow through the crank seal, into the primary, and out the primary vent tube. Its a dry sump engine, so while that pressure would have some oil in it, it would mostly be 600cc's of air per stroke, 1200cc's of air per revolution. That's a lot of air, and can blow a lot of stuff out the primary.
When mine let go on the tuber, I didn't notice engine oil, it was all foul smelling (and insanely slippery) primary oil. |
Firemanjim
| | Posted on Monday, September 26, 2011 - 01:04 am: |
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Reep,he is right,most common result of bad engine seal is overfull primary, not an empty one. He has leak from primary somewhere. Maybe even trans seal. |
Buellistic
| | Posted on Monday, September 26, 2011 - 01:38 am: |
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Reepicheep,
Conclusion on what item ??? |
Reepicheep
| | Posted on Monday, September 26, 2011 - 08:18 am: |
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That it's time for a new clutch, which seems to be the conclusion someone would reach reading your post.
The guy is broken down on the road and in a pickle, I'm guessing making an obtuse reference that requires searching and parsing some other post that he may or may not find after a lot of searching shouldn't be our first approach.
Thanks for the education Essmjay and Jim! That wasn't my experience. Good to know the symptoms can look like that. |
R850r
| | Posted on Monday, September 26, 2011 - 10:41 am: |
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I believe LaFayette was referring to the other post buellrobot made regarding shifting issues on his journey. If oil level was not correct, it could force it's way through crank seal. Just guessing. |
Essmjay
| | Posted on Monday, September 26, 2011 - 12:22 pm: |
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Right, forgot the trans output seal, the wind could move that leak all over the place.
(Message edited by essmjay on September 26, 2011) |
Buellrobot
| | Posted on Monday, September 26, 2011 - 03:36 pm: |
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Update: Progressive is going to tow the bike 85 miles north (glad I opted for that silly roadside assistance option), to the nearest shop that services Harley's (these folks: http://www.montereycountyhd.com/)
So places to suggest the tech's check would include: stator plug, starter gasket, cover gaskets, overflow, trans output seal, and /maybe/ the crankshaft plug?
I seem to bleed engine oil too, so might not be bad to get a few things replaced as long as they're tearing the engine apart...?
Regarding the clutch, I wonder how much extra time/trouble it would be to pursue that... I kinda wanted to see if I could do some of this myself, but it's hard in NYC w/ limited garage access. If they're deep in the engine, would it make sense to have them swap out some clutch plates or something? I haven't really had the proper time to sort through all the info that Buellistic sent over... not sure what I'd even ask them to do.
And thanks again for all the diagnostic help and support here. This message board never ceases to amaze me! |
Blake
| | Posted on Monday, September 26, 2011 - 03:42 pm: |
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In warm weather, water in the primary/tranny can flash to steam and cause what you describe, a literal explosion of oil. Happened to me. Blew oil out all over the place, as you describe "exploded". Change oil, retorque the fasteners, all is well.
Make sure little rubber boot covering clutch cable adjuster (midway down cable from lever) is properly seated/sealed against smooth metal ferule. If it isn't, that is where water can enter either from rain or bike washing. |
Yo_barry
| | Posted on Monday, September 26, 2011 - 04:04 pm: |
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Well, at least they are taking it to a good dealer (in Salinas.) They were a Buell dealer until HD killed Buell.
Send me a message if you need some help. I'm in Hollister, 25 miles +/- from Salinas.
yo_barry @ yahoo.com (remove the spaces)
I've got a trailer, tools, garage, lifts. I could take you to fireman jim's shop if you want.
Sorry I didn't see this post yesterday.
Barry
(Message edited by yo_barry on September 26, 2011) |
Firstbuell
| | Posted on Monday, September 26, 2011 - 05:20 pm: |
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I'm another 75 miles N of Yo-Barry, in Redwood City
truck, ramp, etc available + S# rider Feike [super PHD] is nearby.....
lemme know if I can help - my info's on BRAN page |
Essmjay
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 27, 2011 - 11:37 am: |
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Please explain how water could flash into steam in the primary. As far as I know, flash steam is created when water, under pressure and heat, is released to a lower pressure. This is how steam engines work. If you have a quantity of water in your primary, and it is able to reach 212 degrees, it might expand enough to force some of the oil out the vent. However, I sincerely doubt that the water will flash into steam. |
Msr203
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 27, 2011 - 12:26 pm: |
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Sorry to pipe in but it's great seeing everyone step in to help a fellow bueller in need, I'm the type that always helps out. You can use my shop but it's in PA, heck if it's real bad you can use my backhoe!  |
Buellrobot
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 28, 2011 - 09:37 pm: |
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So the folks in Monterey are suggesting an overhaul on a bunch of seals and rings deep inside the engine (incl. piston rings), checking stator wiring, etc due to both primary and engine oil leaking. So I'm planning to let them take care of that, so it at least becomes rideable. Once I'm back in NY I'll check out the clutch stuff.
As Msr203 says, the community on BW is invaluable. My girlfriend was asking cynically (as we were broke down) "What, you post here and then wait 3-4 days for a response?" Totally blown away when there was a back and forth conversation going within an hour of putting up a note. I hope to be able to repay in due time -- if a Buell breaks down in Brooklyn, I'll be waiting (not much of a garage, but I do have a futon!). In the mean time, thanks y'all. |
Kalali
| | Posted on Friday, September 30, 2011 - 12:52 pm: |
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I'm just wondering why they're suggesting such extreme measures if the symptoms was "only" leaking oil. I assume they measured compression and it was way below the spec. Otherwise why go so deep inside the motor. Just seems real extreme especially since the bike was still rideable. |
Buellistic
| | Posted on Saturday, October 01, 2011 - 04:31 pm: |
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What about just fixing the "PROBLEM" ???
They can not fix the problem with out rebuilding the engine ??? |
Akbuell
| | Posted on Sunday, October 02, 2011 - 10:02 am: |
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I'm with Kalali and Buellistic on this one. If the primary is empty, that's where the problem is. Most likely starter base gasket, but nothing to do w/piston rings.
As to the splooge on the right side, that is not too uncommon, and is the crankcase breather system. The umbrella valves in the rocker box spacers live in a bad neighborhood, heat wise, and get stiff and don't work like they used to.
If you have the original 2-piece rocker box gaskets, that is also a prime suspect.
As to the engine rings, if they did a compression and leak-down test, good for them. Ask them to do it again, please, while you watch, after they show you the FSM procedures and what the results should be. |
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