| Author | Message | ||
     Cryptbueller |
Ok so here goes another Engine oil question. I had my local dealer do my first 1000 mile service and that was a total waste of money...so I am going to do my oil changes myself, and I have decided to go with Mobil 1 15W50 for the engine oil, but I am still in a toss up about the primary. Could someone please enlighten me on this subject...what would be a good product to use...procedure of changing it out...how many miles between changes...etc...what do all of you buellers do. and my bike is an 03 XB9s | ||
| Whodom |
Many people here (including me) run Mobil-1 75W-90 synthetic gear lube in their transmissions with good results. That said, I e-mailed Mobil yesterday and asked what they recommended for Buell primary/transmissions. They responded: "Mobil 1 MX4T 10W40 motorcycle motor oil [synthetic] is the recommended and appropriate product." I think I'm going to try a quart of that at my next change. Changing instructions/frequency/etc. I change mine every 5000 miles. It's best if you have a shop manual to do the change. I don't know the specifics for an XB, but basically you ride the bike till the tranny's hot, pull the plug and drain the oil. You may have to remove the muffler to get to get the plug out without getting oil all over your muffler. On tubers like mine, most folks use a ball peen hammer to provide the necessary clearance (permanently). Remove the clutch cover to refill. Getting the torx screws out of the cover can be a real pain sometimes. Try to loosen each one a little at a time until they're all loose. People often have problems with them so be patient. The cover gasket (a square cross section o-ring) can generally be reused, but it wouldn't hurt to get a new one. Not overfilling the primary is critical or you will have hard shifting. It usually takes just under a quart to refill. The bike should be level when checking the oil level. I don't have a manual with me; there's a good illustration inside of how to read the oil level. IIRC, the oil should just cover the teeth on the bottom of the clutch assembly. | ||
| Sloppy |
Don't use M1 gear lube -- very bad juju and Mobil 1 specifically recommends against its use in this application. Some have no problems, others have very bad problems no matter how many times they're told that they can't have a problem. All depends on karma and whether or not you like to change your stator... controversial?: yes. Do a search and research yourself. Here's a recommendation without any controversy for your tranny: use M1 15-50 or HD syn oil. Now go ride! | ||
| Ara |
Bad juju, huh? Well that's the current theory. But for the previous six to eight years Mobil 1 gear oil was very good mojo. I ran Mobil 1 gear oil in the primary of my 1997 S3 all during that time. It smoothed the shifting (as compared to H-D SportTrans) and there was absolutely no downside. Get that - there were noticeable advantages and no disadvantages. Now the current wisdom, which is at this time at least backed up by the factory, is to run the same lubricant in the primary as is used in the engine. OK fine. I'm doing that. Maybe gear oil is bad in the primary and maybe it isn't, but there are real life actual gears in the primary, I never had a problem with it, and I'm wondering how many and what kind of failures can be honestly and scientifically attributed to it. What I mean is the difference between coincidental association and fact. Bottom line: The current popular wisdom on this or any subject remains mere opinion until rigorous and repeatable testing proves its validity. It may be wise to subscribe to the popular wisdom (as I have twice), but do not confuse it for fact. | ||
| Sloppy |
I've been on XL engines for 10 years now and I've NEVER heard any juju about running M1 gear lube. I like to experiment so I tried it and had to replace my stator a year later. Mobil1 says its Gear Lube is bad juju: "Not recommended for automatic, manual or semiautomatic transmissions for which engine oil or automatic transmission fluids are recommended." Not a "direct" application to the XL / XB tranny case, but it applies regardless. FWIW, there are no issues with the gears that I know of. I, and others, have had stator failures while using M1 gear lube. Some had repeating stator failures while using M1 Gear Lube. The stator failures stopped after no longer using M1 gear lube. This is not an opinion, but a FACT. It's also a FACT that some people swear by M1 gear lube. I hope we don't beat this topic to death again. I say again, it's controversial. But the use of M1 engine oil in the primary is not controversial and gives as good performance as M1 gear lube. I'd rather ride than risk having to yank out another stator... here's the bottom line: caveat emptor. | ||
| Ara |
Well that Mobil 1 quote is a dandy thing, but it has only been within the last 18 months that H-D/Buell started recommending motor oil for the tranny. That warning applies now that the Motor Company has changed its recommended lubricant, but six or eight years ago it certainly did not apply. (Unless, of course, you've been playing with Mr. Peabody's wayback machine!) It's a fact that you and others had stator problems while running Mobil 1 gear oil if you say so. What is not a fact is that a causal relationship has been scientifically demonstrated. What we have here is conincidental association, not science. I'm not trying to crank your tractor, Sloppy, I'm really not. What hope I'm doing is pointing out that we have anectodal information that we should probably not ignore. I'm not ignoring it myself! But what we do not have is test data from a lab, coroborated by a second lab, that demonstrates conclusively that Mobil 1 gear oil was the cause of the failure of those stators. Mobil 1 is guilty by association here, and that's all we've got. Remember, a lot of people ran Mobil 1 gear oil in their primaries and did not suffer a stator failure. Caveat emptor? You betcha! | ||
| Xldevil |
Hey. I'm running a good 15W50 motorcycle synthetic in my M2 and in my Sporty for more than 6 years.(about 70K kilometers so far) For the primary/tranny of these engines I'm using a 20W50 semi synth.motoroil. Never had any problems.No clutch slipping or dragging,always smooth shifting since I changed to Andrews for 1st and 4th gear. Ralph (Message edited by xldevil on July 29, 2006) | ||
| Iamike |
My stator died at 38,000mi. using Mobile 1 motor oil. It must have been the oil  . No actually what has been said about the gear oil is that it may attack the copper. I don't think that it has been proven though. | ||
| Sloppy |
I'm all for more data. How did your stator die? How long had you been using M1 motor oil in your tranny prior to failure? Year of bike? Any other details? Thanks. | ||
| Iamike |
I started using Mobile1 at about 2,000mi. I don't believe that it was the cause. Most of thes failues happen at the clamp in the primary where the wiring changes from solid to stranded. The clamp has sharp edges and the vibration just gets the most of it. If you are ever in your primary it would be a good idea to round off the edges of the clamp. p.s. My bike is a '99 S3 with 58,000mi. on it. the only major failure was the stator which is a fairly common problem with all Harleys. p.p.s. If you click on the poster's name you will get their profile. | ||
| Sloppy |
Iamike: The Mobil1 Gear Lube "failures" are a different failure mode. These failure modes are on the soldered connection directly on the stator at the end of the insulated connection. The copper strands show corrosion damage at the stator connection, not a cold-work fracture at the clamp (a relatively common stator failure as you mentioned). Both would show the same result - an open circuit. There was one poster who had ~6 repeat failures of the stator connection, but when he stopped using M1 Gear Lube, the failures stopped. But again, there are others that have reported that they used M1 Gear Lube with complete success. Based on this fact, I would theorize that the difference could be based on load cycles of both the oil and the charging system. I think there's enough data out there to say to use M1 gear lube with caution. Thanks for the data! | ||
| Whodom |
Sloppy, I apparently have a failed stator on my S3 at ~20,000 miles, and I've been running Mobil-1 75W-90 synth since I acquired the bike with ~5000 miles on it. I'll post any additional details when I pull the stator in the next couple of weeks. |
