| Author | Message | ||
     Supafast |
In my tank. Ya, second time in a month. Makes my bike jump and kick and backfire and stall out. Sux. Do you think it has anything to do with the gas companies adding %10 Ethanol to their product? | ||
| Sleez |
you have to watch pumping at stations with multi grades with one hose. there can be .5 gal or more of whatever grade was pumped last, that will dilute your grade! i only get gas at stations with specific hoses for each grade. this came up a couple years ago, i researched it some and it is acceptable as far as the pump companies are concerned since most autos have significant volume that .5 gal won't make that much difference. but on a motorcycle, .5 gal could be quite substantial. | ||
| Matty7092 |
All the gas I buy has ethanol in it and I haven't had any of the problems you described. I think your gas was mixed as Sleez talked about. Matt | ||
| Bake |
Sounds more like water in the gas, the bike should at least stay running on low grade. | ||
| Bads1 |
you have to watch pumping at stations with multi grades with one hose. there can be .5 gal or more of whatever grade was pumped last, that will dilute your grade! i only get gas at stations with specific hoses for each grade Completely inaccurate. If the pump's would store that much fuel in the hose and before the filter the station has faulty pumps and which it would be caught by EPA QUICKLY!!! It would be a huge safety issue. I can understand how you'd think that is the case with pump's doing that but its Law that they can't. I've been in such pump's many time's. | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
Not to mention, two quarts of fuel would evaporate releasing vapors into the atmosphere. This is the whole reason many pumps have the vapor recovery systems. | ||
| Tq_freak |
I agree with bads1. There is some fuel left in the hose from the previous customer but not a half gallon. Ft_bstrd-it wouldn't necessarily evaporate because it would still be sealed in the hose by the valve in the nozzle. But your right about the recovery systems. NJ is big on them. Big fine if you get caught messing with them. It does sound more like water in the gas, which could be a by product of the added ethanol since it suspends the water rather then floating on it like straight gas. But its a long shot. I know my parents have seen a giant increase in the replacement intervals of the filters on there pumps from the added ethanol picking up all the stuff that use to sink to the bottom. (My parents own a service station with two pumps) | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
Tq, I believe the pump stops inside the main unit rather than at the handle. You can squeeze the handle and shake remaining fuel out of the hose. I could be really wrong, though. | ||
| Manimal |
Yeah that sound like watered down gas to me as well. Even if you were running 87 octane your bike wouldnt stall or backfire. | ||
| Diablobrian |
If you can avoid it try not to fill your bike too soon after the station has it's tanks re-filled. The water and dirt that normally settles to the bottom gets stirred up. In a car it's not as big of a deal as it is on a bike. I know that it can be hard to know when they get their deliveries, but if you always fill up at the same station it's pretty easy to ask when their normal delivery days are. I had the same problem at the end of last summer too, and I ended up just dropping the fuel pump and cleaning all the crap out so it wouldn't come back to haunt me later. If you do drop the fuel pump assembly I recommend having the o-rings on hand since the swell up very quickly after they are exposed to air. It's also a good opportunity to add a little fuel cell foam to prevent sloshing/fuel starvation under hard braking on the 03-04 models. It's cheaper than updating to the new pump. | ||
| Manimal |
+1 diablo | ||
| Gentleman_jon |
Brian, Do you remember what size O rings are required? | ||
| Bads1 |
If you can avoid it try not to fill your bike too soon after the station has it's tanks re-filled. The water and dirt that normally settles to the bottom gets stirred up. In a car it's not as big of a deal as it is on a bike. Actually Brian thats not a problem either because the pump's have there own filter's on them that will not allow any dirt pass. These filter's by law have scheduled replacement dates. As far as station deliveries. Thats difficult to get a handle on because stations will buy at different times just because gas prices change so much that if they can buy it cheaper they will place order's accordingly | ||
| Badlionsfan |
Do you remember what size O rings are required? the o-rings aren't needed. just use teflon tape. | ||
| Tq_freak |
Ft_bstrd - I hear what your saying. It probably also changed from one manufacture to the next. +1 bads1 By law every stations has to have monitoring equipment and it tells you when to replace they filters and it can tell how much water/debris is in the tank and if it gets to high it will shut everything off and wont let you pump. | ||
| Supafast |
I always run 93 in my bike. My friend suggested that since gas prices have gone up that a lot of people are not buying 93 and therefore is sits in the underground tanks and starts to break down and get condensation in them. Since more people are buying 89 than 93, do you think I should just run 89 in it?? Im going to ONLY buy gas at bigger, more trafficked stations. I hardly ever hit the same station twice since Im everywhere on my bike. | ||
| Gentleman_jon |
Here is what a lot of folks use for bad gas. Never tried it myself, but I am told it works like a charm.  | ||
| Sleez |
i wasn't saying this was the answer, just something else to think about, i would suspect water or some other foreign subsatnce would be more likely to cause the stalling mentioned. taken from: EPO 22 Examination Procedure Outline for Retail Motor Fuel Dispensers Blended Product When taking gasoline samples from blended product dispensers, the samples should be collected after an observed sale of the particular grade or product to be tested, or sufficient product should be purged from the hose to ensure the sample is representative of the grade or product being sampled. The National Conference on Weights and Measures policy on procedures for taking samples for octane verification is as follows: “A minimum of a liter (0.3 gallon) of engine fuel shall be flushed from the dispensers before taking a sample for octane verification. This flush shall be returned to the storage tank containing the lowest octane.” (see NCWM Publication 21, Petroleum Products Sampling Procedures and Safety Manual, August 1997). so i didn't remember it correctly at .3 gal, but that is still significant if you only get a gallon or two. taken from; December 2003 Testing Blend Retail Motor Fuel Dispensers (RMFDs) By G. Diane Lee 6. Check for antidrain means. An antidrain value is located in the nozzle to prevent the hose from draining. RMFDs have a wet hose, that is, the hose must remain full to ensure that each delivery is accurate. To perform a test of the anti-drain valve, turn off the dispenser, open the discharge valve, and raise at least three feet of the hose higher than the nozzle. The antidrain valve is malfunctioning if fuel continues to flow after the initial pressure surge is relieved. even though this doesn't give the amount in the hose, it is there! more on mixing octanes; 6.15 Can I mix different octane fuel grades? Yes, however attempts to blend in your fuel tank should be carefully planned. You should not allow the tank to become empty, and then add 50% of lower octane, followed by 50% of higher octane. The fuels may not completely mix immediately, especially if there is a density difference. You may get a slug of low octane that causes severe knock. You should refill when your tank is half full. In general the octane response will be linear for most hydrocarbon and oxygenated fuels eg 50:50 of 87 and 91 will give 89. Attempts to mix leaded high octane to unleaded high octane to obtain higher octane are useless for most commercial gasolines. The lead response of the unleaded fuel does not overcome the dilution effect, thus 50:50 of 96 leaded and 91 unleaded will give 94. Some blends of oxygenated fuels with ordinary gasoline can result in undesirable increases in volatility due to volatile azeotropes, and some oxygenates can have negative lead responses. The octane requirement of some engines is determined by the need to avoid run-on, not to avoid knock. so....using the linear equation and assuming .25 gal of low (87) octane in the hose, and topping off with 2 gal (91) you would get an effective octane rating of about 90.5. probably not enough to cause much of a problem, especially if you still have a few gallons of 91 in the tank before topping off. i still don't get gas at blending pumps! is it the cause for this issue??? not likely, just something to consider. hope that is "accurate" enough for you!!!! (Message edited by sleez on October 04, 2007) | ||
| Bads1 |
Sleez, .3 ???? Let me tell ya this. The things I've learned about these pump's is from being around them and there function. Lucky me I have a Brother that own's 2 station's and one of them is the busiest independent owned station in the city. Those pump's hold about and no kidding 2 oz. if that. I was there last week when a women was pumping her gas and cleaning her windshield then she forgot the hose was in her car and drove off. It happens atleast 4-5 times a year. Usually people that are paying at the pump. But none the less I was screaming stop....Stop....Stop.....well to late. Guess what there was NO GAS SPILLED!!! | ||
| Buellinachinashop |
Why is it that every time I fart, my boss walks in? I damn near killed her yesterday. | ||
| Sparky |
Talk about BAD gas! Don't ever let your gas get this bad. I'm restoring my dad's '65 Dodge that was parked for about 15 years in the Arizona heat with a half tank of gas. The gas deteriorated so badly that it gummed up the intake valves causing the pushrods to bend and break. To the point, I rebuilt the engine and it runs great now but I need to flush out the gas tank and the fuel line. So two questions, 1) What's the easiest best way to clean out the metal fuel line? My son wanted to hook up an electric fuel pump to the line and circulate carb cleaner through it but he didn't have a working pump and neither do I. 2) How do I get all the skunky gummy gas residue out of the tank? I was thinking of taking it to an auto machine shop that can hot tank engines or maybe a radiator shop. I found a shop in Tustin, Ca. that can "Renu" the gas tank, removing rust, patching holes, applying a protective coating on the interior and exterior; but if it costs more than $200, I can get a new tank for that much. | ||
| Bumblebee |
Mine seems to run pretty happy on any grade of gas, what it doesn't like is water in the gas. Stations have filters to trap water, but if they were not replaced recently you could get some. I once got a whole bunch of rusty water with my gas an one cut-rate slimy station, I had to remove the tank and flush the entire fuel system before things were back to normal. | ||
| Stretchman |
Isn't there some kind of gas treatment you can dump into the tank for the specific problem? Like Stabil, or something similar? | ||
| Lost_in_ohio |
+1 on the gas station filter and traps. If they are not regularly maintained then they will leak. My favorite sunoco independantly owned station must be having some financial problems because they have several pumps that have been broken for a couple of weeks and the last tank of ultra I got pinged horrible. I got the hose out and plan to put it in the lawn mowers. Now I have to go 5 city miles out of my way to the next closest station. | ||
| Diablobrian |
there are treatments that work if you have a small amount of water in the tank, like condensation from humid air. The treatments are not designed for large amounts of water. I know I got the water from the pump. My bike is kept in a locked garage, and when I emptied the tank after the bucking, lurching trip home, I found several ounces of water. After I pulled the pump I found even more water. I have to assume that the water filter at the shell station was not serviced and got full before I pumped the gas. I live in a small town ~11k people, and they re-fill their tanks on a pretty routine schedule. I usually keep a copy of the schedule for both of the Shell stations because they are the only ones in town that carry 93 octane. Because of my compression ratio I have to run the higher octane, and I would rather not mess with octane boosters every time I fill up. I'd love to find a way to make my bike run on water, unfortunately it still costs more, and takes more energy than is yielded, to split the hydrogen and oxygen apart. Even then I don't know if I like carrying hydrogen around on my bike. Crash and burn baby! |
