| Author | Message | ||
     Gentleman_jon |
 Sitting around in the winter is always a dangerous occupation for the Bad Webber, who normally gets into the least amount of mischief when riding his bicycle. Am I right, my brothers? And yet, with the thermometer stuck in the teens, and with my front rotor laying around waiting for my wheels to be refinished, I couldn't help thinking that there might be a simple way to modify the stock rotor to give the benefits, real and imaginary, of the so called wave rotor. Here is a very preliminary and rough photo-sketch of a simple system that just uses two radii to achieve the effect. Any one tried something like this? Other thoughts? | ||
| Isham |
Very cool. Move to florida where you can ride year round. | ||
| Xl1200r |
Jon, the only thing I would be careful of making sure you cut everything EXACTLY right. The last you want is that rotor out of balance. Also, that seems like an awful lot of manual machining to do - would it really be worth the time and effort over buying the Wave rotor? | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
Is there enough material to remove and still have the full contact patch for the pads? | ||
| Gentleman_jon |
I think the total area is about the same as the Braking Wave rotor.  I think the idea with the wave rotors is to increase the number of leading edges. | ||
| Sloppy |
Just make sure you get a bond before you play around with a home brewed & modified braking system... if anything goes wrong you may be held for sole liability and I don't think your insurance would cover it. Those "teeth" on your design looks like a great spot for localized heating and potential tempering / stress inducers. If you want one, then I'd suggest you get one from someone who's done it a few hundred times... You're right, spare time can be a bad thing  | ||
| Xbob |
looks like the jaws of a shark. im not an engineer, but i dont think their would be a problem with it. there isnt that much removed. do it. | ||
| Gentleman_jon |
I am thinking a little less extreme model would be easier to make, and solve some off the issues raised above.  Or maybe something in between. Hmmm........................ I like the way the outer edge is looking, but the inner edge seems a bit too flat. | ||
| Gentleman_jon |
This is the finalissimo!  Little more tooth on the inner edge. I am getting to like this one. Easier to make too. | ||
| Liquorbox |
I think it's a BIG mistake! From the liability stand point, AND, have you ever milled Stainless? It's as tough as diamonds & you can count on going through dozens of cutting heads! Bite the bullet & shop Ebay for the real thing for 30% less! | ||
| Duff24 |
yeah good luck with finding one on ebay! i watch ebay like a hawk and don't think i've ever seen one... | ||
| Beachbuell |
I don't know about messing with your braking system. I wouldn't do it, but to each their own | ||
| Bake |
Will a water jet cut it? | ||
| Cycleaddict |
seems to me the only benefit i can see of a "wavey" rotor is it could run cooler?(and it looks cool) | ||
| Trojan |
DON'T DO IT!!!! For the sake of a few bucks just buy a wave rotor. You are messing with the one part of the bike that is most likely to save your life, or lose it if it all goes wrong. Brake companies such as Braking and Galfer invest millions in getting the rotors they make right, and spend countless hours testing them physically and in computer simulations before they even get bolted to the first test bike. There is a lot more to this than just milling a few holes in a stock disc. Some of the cheaper wave pattern discs that have started appearing on the market such as Stealth/ABE etc have been shown to be inferior to the Braking/Galfer and even OE parts, and these are made by brake rotor manufacturers! | ||
| Gentleman_jon |
Very interesting.......... Of the eleven posts on this thread, six express some doubts based primarily on the assumption that there could be some sort of undefined problem. Legal liability is a problem for several brothers. Wonder if Orville said to Wilbur: "better check our insurance, Wil" Curiously enough, no one raised any actual technical objections, except Sloppy. As an architect, I have spent some forty years making original designs. Very often the most original were initially derided because they "never were done before". I have made over forty changes to my Buell, most of them worked out ok. Some did not. I just point this out, because I find this is a very common reaction in life in general. People are often rather wary of the unknown. A few eccentric individuals do things BECAUSE they have not been done before. Sometimes it's called progress. Sometimes it's called failure. Often a lot of the later finally results in the former. Not that I would ever call myself an eccentric.  | ||
| Spiderman |
If you could water jet it I would say go for it. If not you may cause some warpage and you will be back at square one. | ||
| Liquorbox |
"Sometimes it's called progress. Sometimes it's called failure. Often a lot of the later finally results in the former." Not intended to be philosophical, or metaphorical, but sometimes it's called an entire waste of time, which could also possibly end your life! If you were discovering flight, or curing cancer, I’d say, go ahead, it might be worth the risk. But, for doing absolutely nothing other than changing aesthetics & saving a little money, I'd say it’s a bad, or at least worthless endeavor. | ||
| Nutsosane |
Jon, maybe you could sell your design to someone with experience/resources necessary to produce such a product. There seems to be interest enough in such a thing. Al @ American Sport Bike might know of a machine shop that can handle the load and keep the cost down. Alas this doesn't exactly eat up your wintry down time; maybe something else needs hacking?  NUTS | ||
| Cycleaddict |
what are the advantages of the wave rotors ? | ||
| Trojan |
Wave rotors are lighter and run a lot cooler than standard type discs. They also work a lot better in wet conditions. They can however be quite hard on pads and should be used with the correct sintered grade pads fitted along with the disc. | ||
| Roadrailer |
Problem with your argument, Jon, is that you're not doing something that hasn't been done before. It has, and by organizations that actually have R&D budgets. This isn't like tacking on some billet doodad to your bike; if it fails you've got a major problem. Doesn't seem like it's worth the time or risk when there are already proven products in the market that accomplish the same goal. | ||
| Elff |
I think messing with the brakes is akin to driving without a helmet More than not, nothing will happen. but the one time something does happen will most likely be the last time | ||
| Sloppy |
Don't forget the many inventors prior to the Wrights lost their lives... so consider the risks vs. the rewards. The difference with the Wrights is that they couldn't go and buy a plane, but you can go buy a wave disk And don't forget the hundreds of hours of iterations and testing they did before they had a working model. Your other designs look better from a stress / heat concentration point of view. Just make sure you do extensive off street testing before you get on the road. It's not just your life that you're risking on the road. In any case, I don't think the wave rotor is worth it. I'd rather spend the time and money on a track day! | ||
| Not_purple_s2 |
Looking at it with an engineering eye, there are two problems that have already been brought up; balance and heat/stress risers. It would be difficult, though not impossible, to balance the brake disc with home-garage tools. Getting it professionally milled and balanced would probably cost more than a new wave rotor. So if you did it yourself you will most likely end up with an unbalanced rotor and and the best fix would be to have the wheel, tire, and brake assembly balanced and weights added to the wheel to try to compensate. The biggest worry would be heat/stress risers caused by drilling out the rotors. A crack leading to a separation of the disc could be a very dangerous problem. Notice on the wave rotor that there are no sharp points. There is a reason for that. It's a gamble, but the money saved is small compared to the risk. > And before it's brought up; I know that there are a number of "sproter" makers out there for choppers. If you haven't seen they're rear chain rotors that double as brakes. 1. They're rear brakes and don't see the same braking forces of a front perimeter brake 2. They're mostly used on custom choppers that aren't driving aggressively and 3. If they are designed right I wouldn't think the brake pads would contact the rotor teeth. (Message edited by Not_Purple_S2 on February 13, 2007) | ||
| Court |
It would also be nearly impossible to find a configuration that slipped past a team of 7 REALLY smart engineers who spent 14 months evaluating hundreds of various configurations to find THE optimum, as in safety and most effective, to produce. | ||
| Tx05xb12s |
I'm all for innovation and doing your own thing with your XB and really like the look of your custom rotor, but I would also be cautious about being a crash test dummy when it comes to something that important. I also agree that if you crash the thing or hurt somebody, if your insurance company happens to have an investigator savvy enough and recognizes what you did to the brake rotor, you can kiss your coverage goodbye and say hello to full personal liability. I don't know what your tool setup is or your fabricating abilities, but on this particular part, I hope you just go ahead and spring for the $295 and get one from Al that has been tried and tested. If it'll help buy your safety, I'll even throw down a few dollars to help you get a manufactured wave rotor. I'm not rich and haven't even bought myself one yet, but I care about my fellow riders enough to eat Ramen for a week or two and be happy knowing you're riding with the best money could buy. |
