| Author | Message | |||||||||||
     Jasonblue |
Its been a while since I owned a street bike, but I have decided to get back in the game. (With my wifes permission.) My last bike was a 1984 Honda Interceptor 700 that I sold in 89'. I still ride dirt bikes and tend to borrow my dads 85' Virago to get fix now and then. Now however, I want to have something of my very own. It didn't take long for me to decide that I wanted something in the naked, bad-boy, street fighter catagory. On the top of my list is the Ducati S4-beautiful Italian styling, aggressive look as well as the 916 101hp power plant, and I believe its in the 65ish ft. lbs. of torque. BUT, I have always kept an eye on the Buell line, especially knowing they were going through major changes for the 03' models. Well I have seen the XB9S on the Buell website and I love it, talk about unique bad ass styling. My only concern is power. It has the same motor as the bolt, which Motor Cyclist says has 78.2hp@7250rpm and 61.8ftlbs@5500. Now one thing confuses me, the Buell website states that the new XB9S has 92hp. Is that much power lost by the time it gets to the rear wheel or is Buell overstating a little bit? Any way, this probably isn't the place to get an unbiased opinion, and you guys are probably going to tell me that speed and hrsepower aren't everything. And that to ride a Buell is an experience in itself. Well I probably agree to a point, thats why the Jap bikes aren't an option to me. I'm anxious to se what you Buellies have to say.....Thanx | |||||||||||
| Blacksix |
You are going to get some very opinionated responses on this one. It will really depend on the poster. I LOVED my M2. The Ducatis I rode...900ss and a Monster 900 just didn't do it for me like the Buell did. As far as the XB variety goes...can't help you. Welcome to the BOARD! | |||||||||||
| Xgecko |
I look at a Foggy S4 every day at work. It's nice but very cluttered with all the hoses and such. BTW the S4 is really just the ST4 without the bodywork (some cosmetic mods and a frame tweak). I've seen some real world numbers on the S4's power putting it at just a bit more than the XB's real world numbers. Price wise the Ducati is a bit more if I remember and maintainence wise the XB is WAAAAAAAAY cheaper. | |||||||||||
| Fontx1rs |
Quote: "maintainence wise the XB is WAAAAAAAAY cheaper" I would say that the jury is still WAAAAAAAY out on that one. Get the Ducati. | |||||||||||
| Jasonblue |
Maintanence has been a concern in my mind about the Ducati. I've heard they aren't cheap to work on, but I haven't heard what the actual comparative #'s are. Any one have any real info. on that. As far as MSRP the Ducati S4 is at 13000 and the new XBs are at 10000. As far as real world #'s on the Ducati- 98hp@8750 and 63.5ft.lbs.@7000. Its probably going to come down to actually swinging a leg over each of em and seeing which one leaves me with the biggest grin factor. | |||||||||||
| Darthane |
The powerplant in the XB series, Jason, is surprisingly peppy given the numbers. Bear in mind that the XB series was designed for nimbleness, not necessarily speed. However, this bike is fast (I have a XB9R with 2900 miles on it). I have no problem keeping up with my buddies' modified M2s, S3T, and X1, and now that I added the race kit I can beat them straight line. If you're interested, numbers for my race kitted XB are 82.7HP@7350RPMs and 66.2FT/LBS@5400RPMs. It helps that I'm pretty small (5'11" and 135lbs). The Duc's got a much longer wheelbase, so if you're a bigger guy it will probably be more comfortable. Looks like it weighs a tad less wet as well (maybe 15 lbs or so). Powerplants look to be roughly similar, but the Duc is liquid cooled, so I'm guessing the extra power is coming from the fact that it revs 1000RPMs higher than even the XB plant. As to maintenance, I had my 1000 mile done at a Harley Dealer, but from now on I'm only taking it in if I have to. Bought the service manual and I intend to use it. Haven't found anything that was beyond my admittedly meager motorcycle knowledge so far, so technically my maintenance costs are whatever parts and liquids add up to. Can't ask for anything more than that. Unfortunately the only bikes I've ever ridden are my Blast and my Firebolt, so I've no idea how they compare fun and ergonomics-wise to a Ducati. Whatever you choose, ride the $h1t out of it! Bryan | |||||||||||
| Gravedigger |
Jason, Add another $620 to the price of the Buell becuase like most buell owners you will want the race kit or some other performance mod. Keith | |||||||||||
| Noface |
Jasonblue- I'd say you have a tough choice. That's not a bad thing! I haven't seen any maintenance issues here on this board with the Firebolt, just little odds and ends eg. gripes. It might depend on how much of that maintenance you are capable of and willing to do. You might consider dealer and parts availability too. As far as power to the rear wheel, they're both so close I think only a dyno would really be able to tell. Unique factor on both is about the same, maybe with the Duc getting more "ooooohh" points. Although with the Buell, you get tons of that. I've been to a few bike nights with mine being the only Buell in sight with a small crowd around it. But that's probably because it's still new to the market. You had the best idea yet. Throw a leg over and see what fits. Jody | |||||||||||
| Jasonblue |
Thats another thing I've wondered about. When it comes to the race kits and other performance parts, it usually says something like "not legal for street use". Now why would it not be legal for street use, because even with modifications its still not even close to being as fast as other bikes out there. Is it because of emmission laws? And no I'm not a big guy- 5'7" and 165lbs. Another reason both the Ducati and the XBs appeal to me, low seat height. You know I gotta say I'm glad I stumbled upon this web site......Even though I'm even more confused now, with the things I've read on this site. I think I've been on here fore about three hours now. | |||||||||||
| Xgecko |
A big turn off on the Ducati for me is the maintainece issue I like working on my bike and with a Ducati the valves ever 3K miles are just too expensive and difficult for me to do. Other than that issue I like the Ducati great styling and an awesome look/sound. A lot of guys here complain about the XB's power as compared to the Tube frame Buells but when you compare the weight/HP they are closer to equal. | |||||||||||
| Darthane |
Jason, As far as the street legality of race kits goes, technically they're illegal, but unless you live in a state with some kind of manditory inspection no one will EVER bother you about it. Hell, the race muffler on my Firebolt even has a plate riveted to it that says 'Not Legal for Road Use' or some such...but do you really think some cop's going to get on his hands and knees to read it and then give me a ticket? I didn't think so. Bryan | |||||||||||
| Xgecko |
as far as the whole street legal thing goes most aftermarket exhausts are not streetlegal. This is as true for japanese motorcycles as it is for most of the pipes on Harley big twins. Enforcement of these regs is rarely if ever done though on occasionally the cops will set up a db testing site and but some of the HD crowd for excessive noise. Rarely will a sportbike (even a Buell) get caught in one of these tests. | |||||||||||
| Jasonblue |
Well thats just it. I live in Houston and we have to have our cars emissions checked yearly. Now I'm not positive but I assume motorcycles have to be checked as well. Anyone out there live in a state that has to have their bike tested? And do you have performance modifications. Jason | |||||||||||
| Xgecko |
emmisions on a motorcycle aren't effected (to any real degree) by aftermarket can's (unless you are running drag pipes). Not even California tests motorcycle emmisions and if they don't I wouldn't expect anyone else to (Rhode Island uses California EPA regs and they don't either) | |||||||||||
| Budo |
I have a 98 S1W with 29k miles on it. My best bud has a 2000 M900s Ducati. I like the Duc, alot. My bike is fun but considering the problems I have had. You guys are such a joke, talking about maint expense. I have had to do a top end rebuild after I holed a piston. Just look at the problems Buell owners have had, maint expense, please! The Duc would be cheaper at half again as much. Scheduled maint on my bike at 10k miles is a 8hour job. My shop charges $65.00 per hour, that is $520.00 in labor alone. There are always parts to replace, stearing head bearings. Now lets talk resale. Used Buell's, you have to almost give one away. At least the Duc will be worth something after it rolls out of the showroom. Just go to traderonline and look. Also, look at your dealer. My dealer sucks! As do most other dealers. Unless you live near Modesto you might have a very serious problem. Sure the Duc has to have maint done due to the desmoquattro valves, but it is worth it. It is simply worth it. It holds it's value, it is reliable, it is fun. It is the bike that I had hoped Buell would build. Looks like Buell will never build a bike I will buy. The only reason that I would even consider owning another Buell is that I have become so familar with the problems of these bikes, owning another one would be the same old problems that I know so well. No bike made has had the problems Buell has with reliability except for Ural, and they have a better dealer network. Note, strong message to follow. | |||||||||||
| Reepicheep |
An XB9S, stock, would be a very cool ride with ample performance for just about everyone on this board that actually owns and rides it. If it does not prove enough power after a year or so of learning how to really ride it: An XB9S with the race kit and about $2500 sent to Brian Nallin / Cycle Rama etc would probably spank the Ducati anywhere and any time, both bikes ending up about $13000 out the door. And there is a pretty good chance (based on the people here that own the bike) that power will be just fine. As for maintenance, I have a hard time imagining any Firebolt problems that equal the cost and downtime of the known requirements for the Ducati desmo valve adjustments. Didn't the Motorcycle Online article compare the Firebolt head to head with the S4? Or was that a different Duc? Ultimately, both bikes are great bikes and are within reasonable ranges of each other... buy the one that pushes your buttons. | |||||||||||
| Peter |
I posted this on the General Discussions section a few days ago. It seems relevant here now. A friend of mine in Norway has an S4 Ducati Monster which she bought new. It has been in the dealership for the last couple of months for a noise in the engine. They pulled it apart, diagnosed the problem as a bad gear, replaced the parts and put it back together. The noise was still there. Pulled the engine down again, decided the main bearings were bad, put it back together again and sent her on her way Friday evening. Shop closed, she left. On the way home, noisy engine again. She's meant to be doing a track day on it today. Very frustrated and pissed off customer. PPiA She was taking it back in there this morning, but I haven't heard what happened yet. Funny thing is, she's talking about buying a Buell now as she was in Amsterdam a couple of weeks ago and I let her ride my M2 for a day. She liked it a lot. She also wants to do her own work on her bike, but the Desmo valves are too difficult, so her service bills are also pissing her off. PPiA | |||||||||||
| Roc |
I think you should look at the dealers in your area and decide based on that. If the Buell dealer is good and the Duc dealer not so good, buy the Buell. I think that will determine your experience with either bike more than anything. Based on my experience with an ST2 Ducati and an S1 Buell - the ST is probably cheaper to own and about the same trouble. If ST's enter your thoughts be warned that they are not nice bikes 2 up, lots of buffeting at speed. | |||||||||||
| Blake |
According to Motorcyclist's "Hard Numbers"...
So the Duc is pretty much the same weight, slightly heavier than the Buell XB9's but packs over 20 more RWHP. That's a HUGE jump in RWHP. If you must have superbike type performance go for the Duc. If you prefer something that looks good and handles like a razor in the twisties, go for the Buell. Personally, I agree with XGecko; I was apalled by the poor integration of wiring and tubing and radiator on the Monster S4, absolutely hideous on the right side. The new 999 looks to have removable parts that might allow very easy conversion to a Firebolt-like level of nakedness, still not a Monster or XB9S though. A test ride of each is probably the best way to decide. | |||||||||||
| Darthane |
__________________________________________________ Quote: Didn't the Motorcycle Online article compare the Firebolt head to head with the S4? Or was that a different Duc? __________________________________________________ That was a 900SS. http://www.motorcycle.com/mo/mccompare/02xb900.motml They went subscription, so you can't read the whole article, but there it is. Was pretty interesting (providing you have access to the whole article). Bryan | |||||||||||
| Xgecko |
I got into a big disagreement on another BBS about the S4-ST4 thing until a Ducatisi backed me up. Ducati did tweak the frame on the S4 but it is essentially an ST4. From Ducati I would expect more in the way of an astheticly pleasing design...until I saw what Terblance did to the 999 that is | |||||||||||
| Java |
You'll have to decide on the looks, and comfort. Performance, the Ducati has the edge. I've ridden both bikes, and for me, of course the Buell wins. Otherwise I would be lurking at badducatibikers.com. And now, a word about maintenance; Do you put many miles on a bike every year? I once owned a Cagiva Allazzura. A sweet little bike, that was mechanically the same as a Ducati Pantah. I discovered the Ducati owners dirty little secret; valve adjustments. Just like HD owners won't talk about how they paid 20% over MSRP, Ducati owners won't talk about valve adjustment. If you plan to put 18-20k miles on a bike every year, you will be able to buy TWO Firebolts, for what it will cost you to buy and keep one Monster. The Desmodronic valve system is so difficult to adjust, I HAD to have the dealer do it. Its that complicated. It's one of my biggest pet peaves, that the magazines don't mention this whenever they test a Ducati. PLEASE call a dealer, and ask the service mgr. how much, and how often, for a valve adjustment, before you decide. Again, please feel free to assume I'm some kind of lunatic, but DO call the service mgr.  sorry, stepping down now. sort 'a lost it there for a minute..... | |||||||||||
| Java |
Sorry, a couple more points. In defence of the Duc; At the time I owned it, I was living in So.California, (perfect weather year round) and didn't even own a car. 3000 mile intervals meant $400 every 6 weeks! I don't know what the recommended interval is now, but I do know labor is more expensive than it was in the mid '80s, AND Ducatis have twice as many valves now. So please check with a service dept. In defence of the Firebolt; There are a few around here that are very quick to tell you about all the problems they've had. That's OK, if I'd had some of those problems, I'd be pissed too. BUT, the Firebolt shares almost no pieces with the bikes they've had the problems with. No one knows for sure what the long term costs are going to be. Is there anything, thats as much fun as picking out a new bike?  | |||||||||||
| Jasonblue |
I must say I am sold on this web site. Never would I have thought it possible to get so much relative info. I have beedn buying every magazine and going to dealerships for the past year. One day on this site and I have gotten more real world information than I would have dreamed. Hell, right now I'm trying to think of questions that will stimulate more conversation. O.K...One thing I have read is about the Duc's ultra tall gearing. I've heard that one of the first thing Monster owners do is change the rear sprocket to better the off the line response. How does a Firebolt do of the line, especially with a 5 speed tranny. To throw a loop in this discussion what do you guys know about the Honda 919. I sat on one at the Seattle bike show in December of 01'. I can't say that I was turned off. And when I think about it I can hardly leave out the Triumph Speed Triple. Which blows em all out of the water as far as ponnies go. I hear its the best sounding also. Has any one? How is it? Jason Blue | |||||||||||
| Superbad |
I will add my opinion here... I currently own a XB9R and Ducati 748 with an 853cc engine putting out 108.1 RWHP. I LOVE MY FIREBOLT!!! The duc is for sale, it has Carbon/magnesium wheels and is way trick, but it sits in the garage while I ride my BUELL! I have come to the realization that I no longer need to be "On Edge" when riding. I just want a bike that performs great, but is fun and doesn't require "Total Committment" all the time riding it. I have ridden my friends Fogarty edition S4( it has pipes/chip as part of package) I did 20 minutes of tortue on it and was begging to get back on my COMFY Firebolt. My arms/wrists were killing me on the S4. I have never been one for the "standard" riding position, but I HATE the S4 ergo's(my opinion). It does have more outright power than the Buell, but I found the Buell to be a much more satisfying ride on the whole. I am a long time Ducati nut, but I have crossed over to Buell. I can't speak for the XB9S but the XB9R is better on the highway than the S4 and Speed triple, due to better wind protection, and the fairing on the S4 flops all over @ 60+MPH. Bobby Hopp Feel free to shoot me any more questions @ duc900@gte.net | |||||||||||
| Mitchelob |
Jason...consider a 900 Monster? No ugly radiator, simpler and cheaper valve adjustments(approx $200/6000 mi), and much more affordable to own and maintain. Dropping one tooth on the countershaft sprocket is the more common fix for quicker acceleration. Last year I opted for a 750 Monster after selling my M2 (while waiting for Bobby's Firebolt to come in) and have had no problems or regrets in the purchase. I was able to buy the M750 for $3,750 less than the XB9R, a little less performance, but still big on fun. Again, I see the M900 as possibly a better comparison to the XB9S in cost/comfort/perormance. Your other choices of the Speed Triple and 919 are high on my list as well, but I'd have to sample a XB9S first before choosing any others. | |||||||||||
| Mitchelob |
Funny...I just sold my VFR700 last night!! | |||||||||||
| Darthane |
As far as off the line response goes, the Firebolt lacks the 1203cc punch, but it's till quite quick. I believe one test showed 0-60 in 3.2 seconds. On the XB9R Firebolt thread, I think it was, but you'd have to go through the archives. Also note - now that I've got mine race-kitted, my power to weight ratio is better than any of my friends with the big twins, and I can beat them off the line. Glad you like this site. I've also found that it's incredible for information and quick, relevant responses. Even if you pick the Duc, stick around! Bryan | |||||||||||
| Gravedigger |
I agree with Bryan!! This site is just part of the Buell experience. I assume that the other motorcycle companies have boards such as this. If they don't this site should sway you completely to the Buell realm. Great group of people here! Also very knowledgable people here. If you every have a problem with your bike, you can usually get a very good answer on how to fix it here. Makes the experience so much more enjoyable! | |||||||||||
| Dueller |
Well the difference would seem to be whether you would prefer a hot small block chevy or a ferrari. And notwithstanding Blake chewing me out about some comments aimed at humor, you do get a lot of acceptance across the crotch rocket crowd as well as the HD cruiser types. For all the bitchin' heard on here about reliability and poor dealer support, my two Buells (15 K miles between 'em in the past year) have been ultra reliable...and if they did break in the middle of nowhere I'd likely be able to find parts quicker than I would with a Duc. And ya gotta love that HD thump and torque...as the company slogan sez..."different in every sense"....even moreso now with the 'bolt |
