| Author | Message | ||
     Al_lighton |
Just got off the phone with Craig from Silver Eagle Harley Davidson & Buell (formerly H.D & Buell Cycle Center of Waterloo, IA). We had a nice long talk about the XB Exhaust system Evaluation that was being discussed in the Drummer SS thread. Sounds like the bikes are in the bag, the dyno time should be but he needs to talk with the service manager a bit more. If Terry can come out to operate the Dyno, that makes it a lot easier because then they won't need to assign a tech to do the dyno operation given Terry's credentials. Mike Norris said he'll provide catch cans for both bikes. I'll provide open airboxes for each bike. Technoresearch will provide the SW and two keys for tuning. Now we just need to get the pipes lined up and get a date scheduled. I think doing a 9 an da 12 is very doable, assuming that we get a couple other folks to show up to help with the pipe swaps while the other bike is on the dyno. We'd like to see the following tested: Drummer SS Micron D&D Buell Race Jardine Latus (if I think we'll be able to resurrect it) Force TI-Force Special Ops We'll do WOT testing, tuned to a reasonable degree within the allotted time, and record sound files for each. More details to come soon. Al (Message edited by al_lighton on February 09, 2006) | ||
| Buellrcr |
hey al hows the micron on the 9 doing. i got micron on the bike tonight. hope you get the data links in friday. i am trying to go to daytona for the ccs race | ||
| Bt_rider |
If i get my bike monday(thats the plan)i was planning on getting the buell race kit with it and i noticed on the buell web site that a TPS ajustment was needed ,is this somthing i can do on the buell( i could ajust my SV)or do i have to have the dealer install the kit? | ||
| Buellrcr |
you got to use the digital tech at a dealership. | ||
| Lucas70374 |
Al, if you need a force I have one on my bike, let me know | ||
| Dtx |
Al, I am very exciting to see this evaluation finally being "spear-headed" by somebody! This is WAY overdue and I am anxious to see the results. To everybody that is involved, this is MUCH appreciated. Good job. Drake | ||
| Kds1 |
Al, Tell me when and where....I'll have the regular Drummer for the 9 and 12, the loud Drummer for the 12 and an SS for 9 and 12....I also have a Buell race muffler in good condition, polished and needing a new home as well....these pipes will be hand delivered by me and I'll do my swapping if allowed.... Kevin www.kdfab.com | ||
| Diablobrian |
Al, If you are looking for a Jardine (aluminum)I am still willing to loan mine for the test. With or without quiet insert. | ||
| Reepicheep |
Hmmm... I have a special ops pipe off bike. I offered to let DaveS borrow it to do a custom ECM map, but that's just more work for him. Daves, you care? would you rather see this test result, or have the pipe to do the ECM map? I offered it to you first, so you get first crack at borrowing it... | ||
| 99buellx1 |
All I think we need is to get some of the logistics squared away, and pipe manufacturers in line, and I think we will be in business. It was good talking with you today Al. | ||
| No_rice |
craig you guys better flog your x because i have 2 9's that still are trying to figure out what to wear for exhaust  | ||
| Sparky |
Al, I have a Buell race can for a 9R that I'm not using right now. Not brand new but maybe 5k miles. Sparky | ||
| Buelldyno_guy |
XB9 MAP up-date. ... The Micron and OAB are installed and ready to run. ...I have two other bikes to run first but should get it started after lunch Friday. If all goes well I am planning to see I can get done on Sat when nobody is around. ... Terry | ||
| Bake |
Hey Sparky, you lookin to sell that race can? (Message edited by bake on February 09, 2006) | ||
| Sparky |
Sell the race can. No, not at the moment. But I have a stock 98 S3 rigged for touring that I want to sell. A stock 96 S1 too that I might part with. | ||
| 650 |
Thanks for including the Ti-Force! | ||
| Buellman39 |
So does this mean there will be ECM's available to the public that have the mapping programmed for the pipe your running? Most of us with pipes are running K&N and open airboxes. Is this what your going to test with? | ||
| Buelldyno_guy |
Chad contact Al, I don't see how in a day and a half or even two full days we could have finished MAPs for all those systems. We will be able to get some fuel to any lean cells for a given system so we can continue the test. It would not be a fair comparson to test a system that showed a rich or lean condition that affected the power or torque curve. It will only take a short while to correct the A/F at WOT which is where we check HP & TQ | ||
| Mike_bolts |
Al, thanks for taking the lead on this "put up or shut up" test. I think we will have the great exhaust debate settled once and for all! Then we can all peacefully coexsist with one another...    | ||
| Al_lighton |
What Terry said. We'll do WOT runs only, and we'll flatten out the A/F curve for those WOT runs only, NOT do a full map. We ought to be able to get the fuel curve flat enough within 10-12 pulls, 2 at a time with shut down in between to upload the map changes. We won't sweat the Low RPM transients that occur, we'll do our flattening from 3K to redline. When we're all done with the bikes and the mufflers, we'll fully map a 9 and a 12 on one of the pipes as a way to train the dyno guys at Silver Eagle on Directlink. A full map of decent quality takes somewhere between 4-8 hours of dyno time, and if want to be a perfectionist about it, even longer. I think K&N with Open Airboxes is the combination we will run. Kevin, Glad you can come! And we welcome your wrenching skills, as getting the pipes on and off the bikes will likely be the biggest delays in the testing. Which is why I think we'll be able to do the 9 and the 12 in the time we have, since we can always have one bike on the dyno, and one getting its muffler swapped. Al | ||
| M1combat |
I say run from 2K-redline. When leaving a street light I'm generally at about 2200-2600. I only keep it above 3K on a "launch". My Force pipe falls through the floor below 3K. I think we need that data. | ||
| Jcbikes |
I agree with M1 on the 2k-redline especially for the 12's. Thats where usable power really starts. The 9's powerband starts at 3k. Looking forward to all the results. | ||
| 99buellx1 |
He said that we would do the tuning from 3k up, the pulls would start lower than that, we just wouldnt spend a bunch of time trying to correct the super low RPM area. | ||
| Mr_cuell |
Kevin - I am glad you are in this too, and the fact that you are going personally is even better. Speedvision should be making shows about stuff like this. And put it on an all Buell channel . . . I assume all pipes will receive same treatment, ie premapped ecm will not be used on Micron since it won't be pre-mapped on others? | ||
| M1combat |
I think you should. I have a pipe that's DEAD at 2K-3K. I have another pipe that's very much alive down there. It doesn't SOUND like it's much of a big deal, but the 2-3K RPM range is where I spend my time on the street and it makes HUGE differences in the standard "non-huelligan" like drive-ability. Some people like power on the low end, some people like it in the middle and some like it up top. Certain pipes out there are made to really do well in the low RPM range and if you don't tune them at the low end you're giving the finger to their engineers. Please don't do that. I want to see this fair. I "think" I can see doing that with a nine as they probably run around town closer to 3K anyway, but the twelve will IDLE up hills. Please start the WOT tuning at 2K. I'll be the first to say it... If you start the tuning at 3K... You are trying to shoot someone in the leg. As I said... I have a pipe that turns on like a switch at 3K. I HATE that pipe for riding around town. We need to know how well a pipe performs below 3K and as you know... You can only see how well a pipe performs if it's at least somewhat tuned. IMO... 2K-3K is not "super low". I regularly use 1800-3000. (Message edited by M1Combat on February 10, 2006) | ||
| Kmfw160 |
All- Does anyone know of someone or know of a shop in the Nashville, Tn area that is as knowledgeable on these Buell specific areas as ya'll. I really want to learn more about this technical stuff but so far all I can do is read the posts(I tend to do better if my hands are on it). Thanks far any help | ||
| Buelldyno_guy |
Donald, some food for thought. WOT HP&TQ dyno pulls in sport bike such as Buells are done in 5th gear not 4th like other street bikes. The reason is to keep the final drive ratio somewhere within a 50:1 range. So when we do these test lets set the start point anywhere between 2K to 3K as needed to get a good pull. We will see which are low end and top end systems and remember what we are looking for is how the pipe works. Making a Top End pipe start at 2000 RPM could affect what it looks like at 3K. The same goes for the low end pipes we will look at them all the way to red line and may see a couple loose power and torque on top. It does not take long to see where each pipe needs to start and there is no reason to force any one to do something it's not designed to do. I find that engines with cams like a 3K launch and most bottom end engines and pipes will handle a 2K to 2.5 start. None of ride in 4th or 5th gear and snap the throttle WO at that low of an RPM, we use the gears. ... There is nothing wrong with a pipe on a bike that needs to be spinning to start pulling hard, or that has a strong flat torque curve (Flat-Curve?)that a rider can short shift if that is what they wanted and how they ride. ... Terry PS WOT means just that, it's not tuning down low or high, it's tuning from the start to red line while holding the throttle wide open. We would add or take away fuel as needed from the start RPM to red line. ... Hope this makes sense. On the other issue of pre programed ECMs some of the claims are that certin pipes using stock race ECM out perform others that have been mapped. The Buell race ECM is programed for that pipe, On the other hand it took a while to get the fuel curve safe for the Micron. The WOT tuning it about no lean or rich spots and when those aer corrected the power follows. We will tune all the systems at WOT to get the best A/F we can. ... Terry (Message edited by buelldyno_guy on February 10, 2006) (Message edited by buelldyno_guy on February 10, 2006) | ||
| Bigeasy |
Al once you send me my micron I will loan you guys my D&D for the test. Email me if you want it. Art | ||
| M1combat |
I agree with you whole heartedly Terry. Saying that you'll "start at 3K" though, IS saying that you're just going to forsake the pipes that make good power on the bottom. That said... from what I can tell (and have watched on a dyno on my own bike), it's perfectly possible to make a pipe that's excellent from the bottom to the top. I'm just saying lets not cut anyones nose off by starting all the runs at 3K. Lets at least start each pipe as low as they feel like they'll go. I don't "exactly" mean to start a row... but saying "We'll start everything at 3K" sort of got my goat. Don't get me wrong though... Al's a great guy, I know him personally (at least a little anyway) and I doubt he specifically meant it the way I took it, but it was there none the less. All that said  ... Thanks to everyone who has stepped up so far. Once I get my '06 header and Drummer back on my bike, I can send you guys a Force pipe. My only request is that it not be one that is eligible for claiming (and don't make fun of me because of the extra metal welded to it... we did that because it kept breaking...). | ||
| Xb12rene |
I have a HSA Power Race, which I would loan for the the test. If you interested e-mail me. Rene |
