| Author | Message | ||
     Al_Lighton |
Jeff, The new "Y" hanger bracket WILL work with the race header clamp "shoe", but I found that that the fit was less than perfect. The shoe didn't fit the the curve of the header just right when fit into the "Y" hanger mount, and clamping it tight introduced stress into the system. That eventually caused the two hanger straps of that shoe (the part with the oblong holes in it that the mounting bolt goes thru) to fail in two places. I took the longer strap, welded it right next to where the shorter one went, and now have only a single hanger strap. With the new "Y" hanger bracket, and appropriately cut spacer tubes, this makes in possible to have that shoe hanging in the perfect spot so that the shoe is sligned perfectly to the header, removing all stress from the mount. A single strap with no stress is better than two stressed ones, plus the weld enables it to be twice as thick at the base where it is reacting the most bending load. The clamps are called "T-bolt Hose clamps". NAPA carries them, thought they are a different brand than "5 Star" that Buell uses. Ask the NAPA guy to see his hose clamp catalog, look thru it, you'll find the part number. If you use two, you can use one to clamp the header to the shoe, the second to prevent the first from moving off the shoe. Works for me.   | ||
| Jeffsd |
Al, first, thanks for the reply. Second, I was looking at the setup and was thinking about two clamps. Just like you used, but using the shoe and the L bracket. Or, is the L bracket the problem in the mounting system? Either way, thanks for the info about the clamps at Napa. I'm sure it will be quicker and cheaper than my HD dealer. | ||
| Stevep |
Thanks for all the assistance. The mount I have posted above does work with the new 'Y' hanger. In you notice, mine has developed a crack in it. The crack has ran all the way across and seperated the mount. I am trying to find out how to order or get a new one. The dealers I have contacted have not been able to find a part number or a replacement for it. Again thanks for the help. SteveP | ||
| Al_Lighton |
Jeff, It's hard to explain without pictures, but I'll try. First, lets get some semantics straight so that we understand each other: L bracket- the original hanger bracket with a single split rubber isolator Y Bracket- The replacement for the L bracket with two rubber isolators, one on each side of the yoke Shoe- the race header bracket with two hanger tabs that have oblong holes in them that form a "U" Hanger tabs- the piece of the muffler or shoe that mounts to the L or Y bracket X-axis- longitudinal fore and aft axis of the bike Y axis- Vertical on the bike Z axis- lateral on the bike, left/right When you use the race header shoe with either the original L bracket or the replacement Y bracket, the position of the shoe laterally (along the Z axis) or longitudinally on the bike is predetermned. The oblong holes provide for a little bit of y axis vertical movement. It is free in rotation thru the Z axis of the oblong holes. The rotation on the X axis and y axis is also fixed. If the header was perfectly formed, perhaps none of this would matter. But I think there is a lot of fabrication and mounting tolerances to take out. If you use the original L bracket, with the shoe, the U hanger tabs completely lock the shoe along the Z axis. If you use a muffler with a single hanger tab (a la V&H), it gets pulled against the outer face of the isolator in the L bracket and is again completely constrained along the z axis. But with the stock header, you at least have the freedom of sliding the muffler along the collector and it comes to rest in a natural position there before tightening the clamp at the collector. The race header has no Z axis freedom here since the right angle bend to the rear occurs in the header tubes. Any Z axis movement translates to an angle change at the exhaust gasket/header interface (bad). If you use the race header shoe with the new Y bracket, not too much changes except for that the U is inside the Y yoke instead of straddling the isolator in the L bracket. The z axis lateral position of the shoe is still somewhat constrained, but it's a little better since the islators in the Y yoke are floating. You can at least float the U a little laterally prior to tightening the bolt and expanding the rubber isolators. But there is limited freedom of movement here, and on my header, it was WAY off still. The single hanger tab on my modified one allows the z axis some freedom of movement. The way to get it supported in that position is to mount the shoe to the header loosely, fit it between the Y yoke, and move the shoe around until it will allow the bolt to pass thru the yoke and the single oblong hole in the hanger tab. With luck, it will be vertical in that position. Measure and cut spacer tubes (or use washers) to constrain it in position. The rubber isolators in the Y yoke float, so perfect positioning isn't necessary. If the hanger tab isn't hanging vertical (mine did), you could cut a spacer tube with the appropriate angle in it to pinch the hanger tab at it "natural" angle. All this will allow the modified shoe to be clamped completely flat against the header, which helps with the clamp not wanting to slide off. This probably also lowers the incidence of collector/header pipe fractures since the shoe isn't inducing a bending moment in the collector, but I have no hard evidence of that. The whole key is the not have ANY built in stresses. If it is hanging naturally when all the bolts are tightened, fatigue failures will drop WAY down. Or not. That's my theory and I'm sticking to it :-) . I know that if I needed to replace my shoe, the first thing I'd do is modify it to have the single hanger tab instead of the U. Al | ||
| Al_Lighton |
Another picture. It's a little out of focus, but it shows better how the single tab attaches to the shoe . The tab that was from the edge of the shoe is welded to the stub remainder of the tab that was in the middle of the shoe. It's welded on both sides, so it is a BEEFY attachment. Just a little work with the grinding wheel to shape it to fit there + 5 bucks at the welding shop.  | ||
| Al_Lighton |
Jeff, Just noticed that you are in San Diego...if you get any of these parts welded, San Diego Stainless just off of Miramar road is the place to go. They do the most beeyutiful stainless welding, since most of their work is in the food service industry. I live up in Carlsbad but work down that way. Al | ||
| Jeffsd |
Al, sounds like you have done all the legwork already. It makes sense that one hanger (bolt hole) will give the pipe a little more movement (flexibility) than two. This is one of those things that I would like to fix only once. I'll keep you posted. Thanks for all the help. Hope to ride with you one of these days. Jeff | ||
| Roc |
I managed to miss the exhaust bracket service when it was free so I will be buying the pieces. The kit seems to include a lot of things I don't really need, I want the "Y" bracket but what else? Thanks - Rocky | ||
| Al_Lighton |
Rocky, If your voltage regulator isn't in front of the engine (a la S1), and you aren't running the stock boat anch, er, muffler, you only need the Y bracket and it's associated bolt. But if your volage regulator is up front like on my 99S3, you need the regulator relocating bracket ( and a piece of sandpaper). My S3 isn't eating isolators, isn't cracking mufflers, isn't using a race header, etc. So while I got the kit while it was free, I've elected NOT to put it on at this time. No reason to fix something that isn't broken. I have a billet L bracket on that bike that weighs 1/5 of the new Y bracket, and I like the fins on my voltage regulator vertical the way cooling fins belong. But I got it just in case. Speaking of which, if anyone wants a polished Billet L bracket (had it on the S1W before replacing it with the Y bracket), 12 bucks and it's yours, shipping included. 1/3 the weight of the stock L and much nicer looking. It's over $40 from Tat. Al | ||
| Al_Lighton |
if anyone is interested, it's the middle one in this picture:  | ||
| Roc |
Thanks Al - Rocky | ||
| Tripper |
Al; u got mail | ||
| Jeffsd |
Al, I'll gladly take that bracket off your hands. Jeff | ||
| Jeffsd |
Al, the clamps in your picture above look just like the ones that I got from Napa. They are not as "heavy" as the ones on the pipe from Buell. How are the Napa clamps holding up? I bought two today, but they are 2.75 inches which means that they are too big. I plan to get the 2.5 inch tomorrow. I filled the tranny with Redline tonight. I hope to be on the road tomorrow. The bike is wicked loud w/o the pipe. (I had to start it just once with the open header). Jeff | ||
| Roc |
Any input from you all concerning the factory vs. Screaming Eagle exhaust gaskets? SE is cheaper. | ||
| Al_Lighton |
Jeff, Tripp beat you to it. Jeez, after all that explanation as to why the Y hanger was better when running a race header (both of you have one), what do you guys want it for? Sigh.... I didn't think the clamps I got from NAPA were any less beefy than the ones from Buell, just a different brand (BREEZE vs 5 star). Stainless band gage seemed the same, bolts size the same etc. Maybe they've changed suppliers? Mine hadn't failed when I removed the race header due to the suerptrap inlet failure after 2500 miles, I've had it off the bike since awaiting a replacement muffler :-(. Given the bend that occurs at the edge of the shoe, it's easy to see how that part could be a routine replacement. But those bands are cheap at Napa (<3 bucks each). They are wicked loud thru just the header, aren't they  | ||
| Jeffsd |
Al, I'll try to borrow a digital camera from work and post pictures of the two different clamps. The one that was on the shoe fell off my bike,(because it tore through) so I cannnot compare the Napa clamp with it, but the one that holds the muffler to the header if much stronger. It seems like when I work in the yard, I make multiple trips to Home Depot. Now, when I work on the bike, multiple trips to Napa. I'm beginning to see a pattern here. In regards to the bracket, I guess the quicker man won. I'll see about getting the y bracket from the dealer. Thanks, Jeff | ||
| Y2k01x1 |
tried logging on to bubs website at www.bubent.com but received a "forbidden" message and it said i did not have access to the server. anyone know what's up? thanx | ||
| Jeffsd |
Got the clamps from Napa and they seem to work. One to hold the header to the shoe and one to keep the first clamp from sliding off the shoe. I have pictures of the two different clamps (stock and napa) but have no idea how to post them here. I have an Banke shifter on my bike and the shifter is mounted using two bolts on the lower side of the primary cover. They are allen head bolts and are at the very bottom of the primary cover. Last night, I did not notice any leakage. This evening, however, I did notice some red gear lube in the bottom of one of the holes used to mount the Banke shifter. What gives? WHy is trans fluid leaking out of these holes and what can I do to stop it? If it is not one thing, it is three. P.s. Al, what were you doing up at 3:30 am? Jeff | ||
| Schemky |
Kooks Exhaust System: Just received my Kooks system for my 99M2. The quality of construction looks impressive. Much more substantial than anything I have seen from Buell (and Borla). Plan to install this winter with several other improvements, i.e. cams, head porting, new hurricane pistons, etc. We'll see. | ||
| Hootowl |
Try some teflon tape or blue thread sealer on those bolts. | ||
| Schemky |
Kooks Exhaust System: Decided to go ahead and install the Kooks system and not wait til' winter. Front mount wasn't remotely close to lining up with the Buell mount, had to perform some extensive modifications (to the Buell mount) to make the Kook's mount fit. This is inexcusable for a $610.00 system. Muffler is LOUD, even with my ear plugs (that I always ride with). Sounds OK, but my old Borla (10,000 trouble-free miles with a serious front mount modification) sounded way better, i.e. deeper, throatier, not near as loud. Power feels good with the Kooks (I have the Thunderslide kit installed and plugs are just a scotia-bit rich), but seems like the Borla had more mid-range. Levis dyno ain't to reliable. Can't see anyone with an S3T using this unless your noise tolerance is really high. Should have bought the Buell race header and modified an Edelbrock Tru-flow stainless steel muffler to fit. Would have been about $150.00 cheaper to boot. I may order the Edelbrock muffler anyway and see what happens. Has anyone else used the Kooks system? Did yours fit? Any problems so far? | ||
| Fastback69 |
Schemky, I've been considering the race header with a Dynomax race bullet muffler. It would take a little fabricating/welding, but I think it would work. Check out their website. Dynomax mufflers | ||
| Schemky |
Fastback 69, Thanks for the link, didn't know about this series of mufflers. I have the DynoMax on my street/bracket car and am pleased with them. I assume the construction of these is aluminized steel? Can you get them from Jeg's? | ||
| Fastback69 |
Schemky, Yup, Jeg's and Summit carry the race bullets. The round race mufflers are more expensive than the bullets but might be a little louder. | ||
| Doc5339 |
What is the best header to use on a 2000 M2 with V&H pipe, Thunder Slide Jet Kit, and Pro Series with K&N filter? Does ceramic coating have any benefit other than cosmetic? | ||
| Leeaw |
Doc, I have the same exhaust on my M2 with the stock header. I think that is your only choice unless you are going to replace the exhaust. I also had my header ceramic coated in sterling silver because mine was originally black. The theory is that they have some benefit regarding heat transfer, but they just look nice and I can send them back if it fades. | ||
| Leeaw |
Al, Did you get rid of the exhaust L-bracket yet? I am interested! | ||
| Al_Lighton |
Leeaw, Yup, Tripper got it. Al | ||
| Doc5339 |
Thanks Leeaw, what type of front bracket do you use? I keep reading horror stories of the headers breaking or the front mounting bracket cracking and catapulting the rider. Could I get by with some bushings? |
